Battle #3

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

He’s preparing for all the imaginable attacks ...

You see that is the problem. Magneto wasn't suppose to prepare for this attack, you were. The fact is that you failed to take in this type of attack into account during your prep and now you are just trying to cover you backside with this fanciful "shield that can block everything because we say so" routine. Magneto standard shield allows in visible light and as seen by the Gambit scans he can be blinded while his shields are up.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

Sure it’s wrong. I mean, normal...

No, but a mutant who could control metal could. If you were to look at your scans you would see that Cyclops tell Colossus to stay in human form and stay out of the fight precisely because Magneto can control his body. When Colossus does enter the fight, he specifically states that he has to keep attacking to prevent Magneto from taking COMPLETE control of him meaning that at this point Mags can affect him to some degree. Thus this "feat" is pointless and irrelevant. Magneto does not nor has he ever had superhuman durability.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

But wait…you have failed to prove....

Please, Leo and I have been keeping a running laundry list of the ways the Surfer can kill Magneto all of which you have failed to counter.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

His power source is Power Cosmic...

Wrong once more. The Surfer's Power Cosmic allows him to draw upon the ambient energy present in the universe and manipulate it in any way his wishes. They explicitly stated in that scan that she created that universe to be dark meaning that the Surfer couldn't draw upon any ambient energy.

As for Morg, you've failed to prove he can since our invisible team in any way or that he can tell the difference in the holograms we have created. Thus his opening "attacks" will be against a fake Surfer and he'll soon be taken down by Hal (whom he cannot detect).

Oh, and the Surfer can search an entire planet in seconds. His speed is in no way impaired by an atmosphere.
http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/961/sspeed4tqim9.png

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

And six gems or not...

This is just laughable. So the 6 gems didn't provide her with any added protection, huh? The way in world did she want them back to PROTECT them from a black hole? 🙄
http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=soulsuck22vw.jpg

The fact remains that while being cut off from his power the Surfer was able to blind a wielder of 6 soul gems, through her own shields and the artificial shields of a space faring craft without damaging his allies. While we've proven that your characters have been blinded by far less light and it caused them considerable pain and impairment.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

In order to become smaller then photon...

Sorry DC, but you haven't had a real good track record in this debate when it comes to accurate scientific arguments. 😉

He will compress himself down to his desired size and stop before he reaches that threshold and proceed to bypass Magneto's shields.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

Pretty much.

Both the "speed" and "cosmic awareness" are laughable. They neither show Morg having speed that in any ways compares to the Surfer nor do they actually show him using cosmic awareness.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

He has been....

Too bad you didn't provide a scan of this "supposed" feat. Thus you've once again failed to prove that Morg actually has any Cosmic awareness in this debate. Perhaps you shouldn't have waited until your last post to actually debate for him. 🙁

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

Humans have....

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

Now, since I...

All completely and utterly irrelevant. No one is debating that Morg isn't a herald level character, but what you've have failed to show is that he can in any way detect our team while that are invisible or that he won't simply be targeting holograms the entire fight. Thus all of his strength, speed, and power is useless to your team as he can't land a single blow.

Originally posted by batdude123

No, seriously just stop....

That's your response? "Come on, guys. Quit it!" 😆

Originally posted by batdude123

No. How many times do I have to prove...

Just once, but apparently you can't even manage that.

Originally posted by batdude123

A simple laser is much brighter...

Somewhere out there a science teacher is crying.
"A star going nova can have an luminosity of up to 50,000-100,000 times greater than the sun"
Zeilik, Michael. Conceptual Astronomy

The Surfer's flash will be even brighter than that. A man made laser cannot even come close to that.

Originally posted by batdude123

Which doesn’t make any...

Please, we've shown that Magneto's shield lets in visible light, that he can be blinded by bright light with his shield up, and that "classic" Atom can be blinded by a simple laser.

Originally posted by batdude123

No, cause I’ve proven that...

Originally posted by batdude123

Wrong again. I proved that...

Originally posted by batdude123

Hmm, Silver Surfer ....

On Mars the Surfer would have a constant source of cosmic energy to draw upon unlike in the "dark" dimension, so he isn't going to be tired from this attack as he has generated far more powerful energy blasts before and not been fatigued.

Originally posted by batdude123

Some of his...

Originally posted by batdude123

No no no. ❌ You haven’t ...

Reed was fight beside him when the Surfer used the attack, and after it Malice was blind (despite her numerous layers of protection) while Reed was perfectly fine. The proof is in the scans.

Originally posted by batdude123

Why do you I need proof?....

I think that statement sums up Batdude's and DC's entire debate strategy perfectly.
You need proof because that is how you debate. Hal has a near impenetrable shield and Maxima isn't human thus there is no evidence that bright flashes blind them, like there is with Magneto and Captain Atom.

Originally posted by batdude123

Then you go and bring up the Mary Marvel and Major Force fights...

You see, it isn't so hard actually using "classic" Atom feats. I'm sure with practice you could learn how to do it. They actually show his real powerlevels.

Originally posted by batdude123

Hmm, you haven’t proven…

-we've shown bright lights blinding Cap and Mags
-as long as he isn't in a dark dimension he won't be as evidenced by his past feats
-he can easily as Leo has already explained, also we've proven he doesn't even have to get past the shields to kill Mags.
-Morg can't see the Surfer and he'll only be attacking the visible holograms.

Originally posted by batdude123

Hmm, kinda...

Originally posted by batdude123

Hmm, I’ll leave that to DC.

Too late. It's a shame you guys wasted the opportunity to use your most powerful character almost the entire fight.

As it stands we have provided a way to divert all of their offensive attacks, prevent them from being able to see our team, proved we have a enormous speed advantage, provided numerous ways to take out Magneto and Captain Atom, and shown that Morg is incapable of hitting any member of our team.

[judges_note]
personally i think those couple posts by DC should be non-offical. I will render verdict on the fight at eleven or eleven thirty.

This match is now closed.

The only posts that are allowed are judges votes that may not have come in yet. The poll will close itself at midnight tonight so that can still be going on as well.

There's been a bunch of controversy about the post counts and such. I'm going to pull rank and simply say that whatever is in this thread as of right now is acceptable.

If anyone feels there has been some wrong with the post count, let's just be gentlemen about it and ignore it. All 4 participants have had ample opportunity to post their strategies. I doubt a small post-squabble will be the deciding factor in the match.

...in the future I'll try to do something about the non-official post nonsense...

Seriously, Digi... I was JUST about to put on another post. 🙁 Do you mind if I put it on here?

Just in case Digi okays my pms I gave him (if he says no, then just disregard this post)

{edit by Digi}

My apologies mate, but I never said midnight. I simply said late on Saturday (as it is, I closed it around 7PM where I am) and that participants should have their arguments in by Friday or early Saturday at the latest.

If any judges read batdude's post, I can't exactly tell you to ignore what he said if it left an impact on you. But I'm editing this now to remain fair to the closure of the thread prior to this.

Meh, teh restart!

...just stop at midnight....I won't be around to yell if you don't.

I'll handle the yelling.

Originally posted by TheKahn
That's your response? "Come on, guys. Quit it!" 😆

Usually, when somebody ignores posts that prove something, I just tend to not even bother with it anymore. If you’re just going to make Strawman remarks about the Wildstorm incident, then what’s the point?

Originally posted by TheKahn
Just once, but apparently you can't even manage that.

No, I’ve proven that it can be used as evidence. You’ve simply ignored it and continued to rant on about how “it’s not the same Captain Atom” when it is. 🙄

Originally posted by TheKahn
Somewhere out there a science teacher is crying.
"A star going nova can have an luminosity of up to 50,000-100,000 times greater than the sun"
Zeilik, Michael. Conceptual Astronomy

The Surfer's flash will be even brighter than that. A man made laser cannot even come close to that.

Kahn, it’s apparent that SS’s statement was nothing more than hyperbole, and should only be taken with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Please, we've shown that Magneto's shield lets in visible light, that he can be blinded by bright light with his shield up.

When? When Pulsar blinded him? Yeah, he didn’t even have his shield up when that happened. Good example. 🙄 For this encounter, Magneto has been making his strongest shields for fifteen minutes, and DC has shown countless scans of him dispersing energy and what not.

Originally posted by TheKahn
The only proof you've offered is unsubstantiated conjecture which Leo and I have countered with actual scans.

The series is in continuity. It continues Captain Atom’s journey after the Superman/Batman series, and he reappeared from it in Infinite Crisis #7. Geez, I didn’t know you were going to be so childish about it.

Originally posted by TheKahn
The entire series Wildstorm Atom was accomplished feats that Leo and I have proven the "classic" Atom was not capable of. Thus he was powered up to some degree the entire series and those feats are moot. We are free to continue to try and indicate this because the judges have a CHOICE about whether to accept the ws atom feats, or not . . .

Listen, whether you like it or not, the fact of the matter is that the Wildstorm story is in continuity. I have proven to you with scans that the void power in him wasn’t activated until the end of the series (God, I’m getting tired of stating that). I don’t see why the judges wouldn’t accept him, considering it’s the same Captain Atom, it’s in continuity, and he wasn’t powered up at the time. You know, there is such a thing as “high end showings.” You know, it’s the kind of stuff respect threads are filled up with. Of course you’re going to have a skewed perception if you only post “low end” showings.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Too bad the Surfer is attacking him before he has time to form a single thought. Besides if Magneto wants his shield to divert visible light then fine, you've just blinded one of your own characters.

Not if it’s being reflected and redirected at your team. 😉

Originally posted by TheKahn
Reed was fight beside him when the Surfer used the attack, and after it Malice was blind (despite her numerous layers of protection) while Reed was perfectly fine. The proof is in the scans.

If the supposed “brighter than a star going nova” attack was really that strong, then the fact that Reed was right next to SS wouldn’t have made slightest bit of difference. Reed would’ve been blind as well, however it turns out that it’s only hyperbole.

Originally posted by TheKahn
[b]I think that statement sums up Batdude's and DC's entire debate strategy perfectly.
You need proof because that is how you debate. Hal has a near impenetrable shield and Maxima isn't human thus there is no evidence that bright flashes blind them, like there is with Magneto and Captain Atom. [/B]

Are you kidding? 🤨 You need PROOF that Hal Jordan is a human? You need PROOF that GLs can see out of their bubbles? You need PROOF that a HUMAN BEING doesn’t have light speed reactions? Pffffffft. Please, that’s common knowledge but apparently it isn’t to you. 🙄 Good lord Kahn, I didn’t know you knew so little about Green Lanterns. 😬 Show proof of Hal’s automated defense shields being able to block out light. Show proof of why it WOULDN’T affect Hal, and then we can continue this argument. I have to say that this statement shocked me a little bit. Without a shield already up and it having it block out light (as you have failed to mention in your opening statement), then Hal would be affected as LITTLE as our team would. 😛

Originally posted by TheKahn
It blinded Sue not REED. Look at the scans again or get your eyes checked.

No, actually as evidenced by DC’s scans, Sue was just peachy a page later. 🙄

Originally posted by TheKahn
Too late. It's a shame you guys wasted the opportunity to use your most powerful character almost the entire fight.

That’s still up to Digi. We don’t know if DC has anymore posts yet.

Originally posted by TheKahn
As it stands we have provided a way to divert all of their offensive attacks, prevent them from being able to see our team, proved we have a enormous speed advantage, provided numerous ways to take out Magneto and Captain Atom, and shown that Morg is incapable of hitting any member of our team.

‘Fraid not. Magneto’s shields would redirect the blast at your team, or use it to make himself more powerful. You can pick which one you like best. Magneto senses energy. He could easily find your team, and not only that, Captain Atom would use his atomic blast on your team, and as the scans have shown, Hal can’t take too much of the Quantum energy blasts. Magneto (with his EM manipulation) would dowse Maxima with gamma radiation, visible radiation, infrared beams, ultraviolet light, and X-rays against her. She would die from all that exposure. Or, as DC has shown, he could use the “bottleneck” affect against her. Hell, it worked against the Phoenix.

Or Magneto could make a dust cloud of the iron in Mars’ atmosphere, blinding your team (at least for a couple seconds before they are able to clear it), but then Morg would use a blast or something, and Captain Atom would use all types of radiation (Gamma, uranium, plutonium, X-rays, etc. etc.) and heat them up to a specific temperature to in order to cause an atomic blast, or he could gather up the necessary tools from the old “Quantum Field” to make your standard stellar phenomenon. He could continually dump enormous amounts of radiation and energy on your team. Seeing as how he has access to limitless amounts of it, that isn’t good for your team.

Fact of the matter is that Silver Surfer was DRAINED whether you like it or not. If he attempts this attack, all we have to go on is that he would be fatigued after doing it. Captain Atom would beat Hal as I’ve shown, and he would see that Morg would take a drained Surfer, and Mags would take Maxima. Captain Atom (as I’ve shown) takes out Hal, DC has proved MANY MANY ways for Magneto to beat Maxima, and Morg would smoke a fatigued SS.

Originally posted by batdude123
Usually...

So instead of actually finding scans of "classic" Atom duplicating Wildstorm Atom's feats, you're just going to ignore the issue? Good strategy. doh

But to be honest you've both really been doing that the entire debate. 😬

You needs to prove to the judges that "classic" Atom CAN do those things . . . and as of now all you've given them is your word not evidence.

Originally posted by batdude123

No, I’ve proven that it ...

You haven't proven anything of the sort. Not once have you shown "classic" Atom doing what you are claiming he can. How you claim it's the same character when he was bonded the Void from the begining of the series and "classic" Atom has never matched the subsequent feats is a mystery to me. 😑

If you wanted Wildstorm Atom so badly you should have just drafted him. Oh, that's right...characters who recieved a temporary power-up were banned. But you gave it the old college try to sneak him in.

Originally posted by batdude123

Kahn, it’s apparent that SS’s statement was nothing more than hyperbole, and should only be taken with a grain of salt.

eer How the hell is the Surfer claming he can do something and then doing it hyperbole???

Why don't you just ignore this point or claim it's PIS too? That way you wouldn't even have to actually debate.

I highly doubt creating a bright flash of light is truly beyone the most powerful herald of Galactus.

Originally posted by batdude123

When? When Pulsar blinded him? ...

It's not quite that simple Bats. You see you and DC have claimed the entire debate that Magneto can simply control photons. With or without his shield, your Magneto shouldn't have been affected by the flash.

However, we can clearly see that this isn't the case. A bright flash of light can hurt his eyes and dissorent him. The other scan of showed that even with his shield up he can be blinded. All together they prove our nova flash will work perfectly against him.

Originally posted by batdude123

The series is in continuity...

Yes the series is in continuity but Captian Atom is no longer bonded to the Void and you haven't proven he can duplicate the Wildstorm without it. ❌

Originally posted by batdude123

Listen, whether you like it or not,....

The only problem is that Leo and I have shown that every one of his Wildstorm feats are impossible for "classic" Atom to duplicate. You see we actully used scans of your character to make our point while you used merely conjecture.

The feats prove the Voids powers were activated to some degree for the entire series. If that was not the case you could find some "classic" Atom scans to support your claim. But you can't.

Originally posted by batdude123

Not if it’s being reflected and redirected at your team. 😉

The flash will travel towards him at the speed of light a bare fraction of a second after the fight has started. Please tell me where Magneto gained the faster than light reflexes, which he would need to divert this attack, from? 😕

And what you fail to grasp is that even if you and DC had Magneto's shield divert visible light from the start of the fight (not that you actually did mind you) then he'd be blind going into the fight as he need light to enter the shield to see!

Originally posted by batdude123

If the supposed “brighter than a star going nova” ...

Or the Surfer merely used his near infinite Power Cosmic to impliment the attack in such a way that Reed was just fine. Remember he said it does whatever he "wills."

Originally posted by batdude123

Are you kidding? ....

No, you need prove that Hal's automatic shield wouldn't protect him from that attack (in a debate that is what you have to do when you claim something). Hal has one of the most powerful weapons in the universe on his hand which always has a passive shield active. Until you prove a light attack can hurt him, your arguments are conjecture.

I hope the judges note the double standard here. He wants me to prove that an attack won't hurt my character because he can't prove it would. That's just poor debating Bats (notice how he stoped mentioning how it would hurt Maxima 😖hifty: ). When Leo and I claimed Captain Atom and Magneto would be blinded we actually found proof to back that up.

Originally posted by batdude123

No, actually as evidenced by DC’s scans, Sue was just peachy a page later.

She had 6 soul gems. 😐 It was going to take a lot more than a flash of light to put her down. What is impressive is that through the protection of the soul gems, the ships shields, and her personal shields the Surfer still managed to temporarily blind her.

Originally posted by batdude123

That’s still up to Digi. We don’t know if DC has anymore posts yet.

Nope. Your team managed to completly mishandle your most powerful character. Good job. The best you could come up with is that he would hit people with his ax. 😆

Originally posted by batdude123

‘Fraid not....

Once again Magneto doesn't have the FTL reflexes he'd need to either block or deflect this attack and we've proved that such attacks can easily get past his shield. In the first second of the fight the Surfer is all over Magneto, killing him before he even realizes the fight has started.

Originally posted by batdude123

Or Magneto...

Sorry, he won't be living long enough to do anything. Besides we've shown how Magneto and Captain Atom can't tell the differnce in holograms meaning that if he lived he'll be targeting the "wrong" team.

Originally posted by batdude123

Fact of ...

Sorry, but I'm afraid not. He was only drained because he was in a "dark" dimension (which is why they took the effort to mention it in the first place). There is plenty of cosmic energy around Mars to keep him fully charged. Regardless, he will be invisible and none of your characters will be able to detect him.

Once again, they can't counter our holograms, our invisibility, our greater versatility, or our speed. Magneto is dead in the first second of the fight, Captain Atom is easily overloaded or ko'ed by our energy, telepathic, physical, and chemical attacks, and Morg is stuck fighting an opponent he can't see.

CLOSING ARGUMENT

all righty then, let’s sum up and take a look back at some of the highlights of this battle, shall we.

Our offense has stayed pretty much consistent throughout the fight. Nova-flash, blind our opponents, create the holograms, render everyone invisible and launch our attacks. WAY too much time was spent deciding whether or not the nova flash could get through magneto’s shield, when it never mattered anyway. Magneto was dead in the first instant whether he could see or not as surfer shrank down to a size that let him fly straight through magneto’s shield at light speed. Let’s look at their defenses for this attack:

For the first 3 pages (and even later!) they continued to seem unable to understand the nature of the attack, saying ss ‘can’t be a photon’, saying his senses and speed won’t work when he’s that small, that he would actually . . . get ‘lost’, and then finally, actually telling US that ss enters the microverse when it was said repeatedly that he stops short of becoming THAT small. Just small enough to get through the shield, then he has infinite ways to kill magneto. When they began to understand, they switched defenses and said that morg attacks ss and that while morg is attacking, ss would be unable to perform his own attack. To which we said, ‘prove it.’ These were the proofs of his speed that were offered:

As for Morg’s speed, he’s surprised Silver Surfer multiple times, and surprised Thanos:
1. http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/...rssurferbg7.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/...ssurfer2xf8.jpg
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/...rpowerstgi9.jpg
He’s also dodged blasts from Surfer effortlessly:
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/...tssurferzl1.jpg
And like I aforementioned before, he’s shown warp speed many times, like when he flew from destroying Skrull Armada to Worldship, and when he found Terrax among other things (which also shows his cosmic awareness):
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/...stterraxwe5.jpg
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/...tterrax2py6.jpg
http://img106.imagevenue.com/img.ph...243_terrax2.jpg

Scan 4 shows him dodging a blast.

Scan 5 has him . . . flying out of a ship . . .? I guess he’s supposed to be going REALLY fast . . .?

Scan 6 and 7 show him fighting terrax for some reason. I did find it interesting that terrax seemed oblivious to morg’s coming until the very last instant. Doesn’t speak too well of terrax’s cosmic awareness and shows that not ALL heralds (in fact I’d say none of them) have ss’s level of cosmic awareness.

So, the fact that he dodged one of ss’s blasts is supposed to mean that he can: utterly ignore the surprise nova-flash, see instantly through the holograms that apparently even galactus had to CONCENTRATE to see through, find a sub-atomic-sized ss, THEN intercept the fastest character in this tournament – possibly the fastest character ANYWHERE?? All because he could dodge one blast? ❌

And beyond all the lack of evidence, a point that really hasn’t been pressed enough – for morg to even BEGIN to have any chance at ALL of getting to ss, he would need to prove he is also faster than hal who is coming for morg at full speed!!

fact is, NOT all heralds were created equal. Almost all their powersets differed in levels and abilities. Morg was chosen because he was a conscienceless brute. He was a physical beast but lacked ss’s finesse. Morg himself even stated that his own power was NEARLY comparable to surfer’s! He also lacked the ability to heal. But we are supposed to assume, in lieu of any evidence to support it, that morg can do all these things against someone whom even MORG knows is more powerful than he is!? Come on. Without evidence to back this very large claim, how can it even be thought POSSIBLE morg could interfere with ss let alone completely bypass an attacking hal in the process???
End result: mags can’t stop him. There is ZERO evidence (despite all the WORDS they keep saying, there is ZERO on-panel evidence) to suggest morg could even come close to stopping him, especially with hal in his way. Surfer kills magneto in the first instant of the fight, immediately making the battle our 3 vs their 2. That right there should be enough in anyone’s mind to give us the win.
And recall: this happens whether you believe magneto was blinded or not.

Their next big defense against this attack (because they KNOW if ss gets through that shield they are completely screwed . . .) is to say that the light-flash actually weakened surfer to the point where he ‘drains himself’. Could anything possibly be MORE ridiculous?? Our team prepped and planned out their strategy. Would ss actually use an attack if it would drain him?? Some common sense CAN prevail in these debates. We gave multiple reasons for his appearing drained in the scene they showed but ultimately you the judges must decide – would ss really use an attack that would drain himself prior to going into a battle knowing the light was only a distraction and knowing he had to follow it up instantly?? Preposterous. How is this different from magneto being smart enough to shield himself from blinding? Magneto has shown multiple times on-panel that he CAN be surprised, and apparently it has been shown even MORE times that he drops his shields an awful lot . . .

so, mags can’t stop the attack. Morg can’t stop the attack, so they claim ss stops himself by being stupid enough to flash a light that actually drains him of his power when the only time that was shown to happen it occurred in a completely different reality?? Against someone with 6 GEMS!? ❌

the next big thing: wildstorm atom vs classic atom. Digi said it was fine to argue against wildstorm atom’s feats, so we did. The facts are very simple: classic atom was never shown to be able to time travel. It was SAID he could or was taught, but it was never SHOWN. And classic has a LONG history . . . There is also the fact that it was said in a series that was LITTERED with continuity errors of ALL kinds. What if the writer simply made a mistake? They had a WEEK to find a single scan of classic atom time traveling. They couldn’t. They had a week to find a scan of classic atom not being affected by a blinding light. They couldn’t and again used wildstorm atom. The proof is right in front of you – or rather it is NOT in front of you. WS atom did things classic atom never did, but we should just sit quietly and let them use the feats anyway? ❌ their words aren’t good enough. They did not SHOW that the characters were the same because they could not SHOW similar feats being performed by both versions. So once again, why should we let it go?

Next thing: they claimed our flash works AGAINST our characters. Again, preposterous. SS has complete control of the blast and his powers – he’s performed feats so far beyond this little flash of light it’s ludicrous. To think ss would cause his own team to be injured in any way (like reed was not injured sitting at his feat) is ridiculous beyond words. And even if you buy the fact that sue wasn’t permanently blinded she WAS temporarily blinded and that’s all we need.

Next: Our opponents never once countered maxima’s teleportation attack. NOT ONCE!! Now you can choose whether atom is forced to time jump or is ko’d from maxima’s psi-blast from behind. Either one is as likely as the other. And even if you allow for his time travel, it was also shown he cannot REMAIN in the target time for more than a few seconds before he’s brought back. It was never even proven that he would be launched forward just a single week! He’s lost YEARS in the past. As loaded as he was coming into the fight (a tactical error) max could push him a month, six months, a year into the future.

Much of the rest of the debate was secondary to these few points.

– SS cannot be stopped from killing magneto. (I never even mentioned the multiple ways ss could kill WITHOUT getting into his shields . . .)
– Magneto (blind or not is UTTERLY irrelevant) has no way of doing so.
– They failed to prove morg has any chance to do so – especially with hal on him.
– SS’s flash would NOT drain him for many reasons.
– SS’s flash would NOT harm the others on our team as it did not harm reed.
– They have no way to counter max’s teleport and attack on atom who IS momentarily (at least) blind.
– SS finishes with magneto then (if she needs it) helps max, then the 2 help hal who has been keeping morg busy in the opening SECONDS of this fight.

Boom goes the dynamite. We win. Thanks to all the patient judges. Not an easy match to call with some of the squabbling. We appreciate it gentlemen. 😉

Originally posted by TheKahn
So instead of actually finding scans of "classic" Atom duplicating Wildstorm Atom's feats, you're just going to ignore the issue? Good strategy.

It's the same exact Captain Atom and he's done everything I've said he can do. The story is in continuity, and his void powers weren't activated until the very end. I don't know how you can argue against it. (You realize we're just going to keep going in circles about this subject. We've been doing so for pages. 😛)

Originally posted by TheKahn
You haven't proven anything of the sort. Not once have you shown "classic" Atom doing what you are claiming he can. How you claim it's the same character when he was bonded the Void [b]from the begining of the series and "classic" Atom has never matched the subsequent feats is a mystery to me. [/B]

Why would I need to prove it when it's THE SAME EXACT CAPTAIN ATOM? Fact: He's proven the feats I've shown without the void powers and it's in continuity.

Originally posted by TheKahn
If you wanted Wildstorm Atom so badly you should have just drafted him. Oh, that's right...characters who recieved a temporary power-up were banned. But you gave it the old college try to sneak him in.

Um, it's the same Captain Atom, so nice try. It seems like we need to start from square one (AGAIN) *sigh*

Here's the blast that actually set off the void powers in him.

http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=svoid4lj.jpg

Here's the end result of it:

http://img430.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainatomandapollo0bx.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainatomandmidnighter1ce.jpg
http://img470.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainatomandjenny8hr.jpg
http://img470.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainatomandjenny21hx.jpg

Originally posted by TheKahn
How the hell is the Surfer claming he can do something and then doing it hyperbole???

If it wasn't hyperbole, then how the hell was Reed not blinded and how was Sue fine a page later? 🤨

Originally posted by TheKahn
It's not quite that simple Bats. You see you and DC have claimed the entire debate that Magneto can simply control photons. With or without his shield, your Magneto shouldn't have been affected by the flash.

No. DC showed that with his shield, he can deflect photons, shunt energy attacks, power himself up, etc... Since he's been creating all his shields that do those things, then I doubt the nova attack would do anything.

Originally posted by TheKahn
However, we can clearly see that this isn't the case. A bright flash of light can hurt his eyes and dissorent him. The other scan of showed that even with his shield up he can be blinded. All together they prove our nova flash will work perfectly against him. [/B]

Nah, considering he'd have shields that would make it so any part of the EM spectrum would power him up, or he could just disperse the energy right back at your team. In the scan you showed, did Magneto have 15 minutes to prepare and make nothing but more and more diversified shields on top of one another? Yeah, didn't think so.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Yes the series is in continuity but Captian Atom is no longer bonded to the Void and you haven't proven he can duplicate the Wildstorm without it.

🤨 I've shown the same scans up above that I've shown above of his void powers being activated. He did the feats I listed beforehand in the tourney without the use of the void.

Originally posted by TheKahn
The feats prove the Voids powers were activated to some degree for the entire series. If that was not the case you could find some "classic" Atom scans to support your claim. But you can't.

It is the SAME Captain Atom. PERIOD. I've shown the void powers being activated in him, and you saw the result. Now you're claiming "well... well... the void was kinda sorta helping his powers."¨ Pfffffft. Give me a break. It was never shown nor said that the void inside him was augmenting his powers (before issue 9), making this point moot.

Originally posted by TheKahn
The flash will travel towards him at the speed of light a bare fraction of a second after the fight has started. Please tell me where Magneto gained the faster than light reflexes, which he would need to divert this attack, from?

Considering Magneto would has done that kind of thing before, and considering the shield would do the work for him, the nova attack would prove to be a downfall for your team. You've done nothing to our team, and instead you've DRAINED Silver Surfer. Way to go.

Originally posted by TheKahn
And what you fail to grasp is that even if you and DC had Magneto's shield divert visible light from the start of the fight (not that you actually did mind you) then he'd be blind going into the fight as he need light to enter the shield to see!

Considering it didn't even blind Reed, and considering the shield would deflect the attack on an atomic scale (meaning the photons, neutrons, and electrons would be reflected) meaning that before his brain could register what happened with the attack, the shield would've already kicked on and "returned the favor" right back at your team so to speak. 🙂

Originally posted by TheKahn
Or the Surfer merely used his near infinite Power Cosmic to impliment the attack in such a way that Reed was just fine. Remember he said it does whatever he "wills."

Again you're assuming that Silver Surfer made it so that Reed wouldn't be effected without any actual proof.

Originally posted by TheKahn
No, you need prove that Hal's automatic shield wouldn't protect him from that attack (in a debate that is what you have to do when you claim something). Hal has one of the most powerful weapons in the universe on his hand which always has a passive shield active. Until you prove a light attack can hurt him, your arguments are conjecture.

Why can't I seem to get it through your head that Hal Jordan is a HUMAN BEING with HUMAN physiology? His shields let in light to all him to see outward. Without him willing a shield that reflects light, or doesn't allow light in (kind of like how we did for Magneto), he would suffer the effects of Silver Surfer's nova attack.

Originally posted by TheKahn
She had 6 soul gems. It was going to take a lot more than a flash of light to put her down. What is impressive is that through the protection of the soul gems, the ships shields, and her personal shields the Surfer still managed to temporarily blind her.

I'm curios; do the soul gems decrease an eye's sensitivity to light? 😕 Doesn't make a difference anyway considering Reed was hardly affected at all.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Nope. Your team managed to completly mishandle your most powerful character. Good job. The best you could come up with is that he would hit people with his ax.

Nope. DC has shown a variety of ways for Morg to take down a WEAKENED Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Once again Magneto doesn't have the FTL reflexes he'd need to either block or deflect this attack and we've proved that such attacks can easily get past his shield. In the first second of the fight the Surfer is all over Magneto, killing him before he even realizes the fight has started.

Which he doesn't need because the very nature of the shield itself would reflect it. Btw, let me get this straight; Silver Surfer is going to make a "nova" attack (that won't do anything to our team), drain himself by doing it, make holograms, have Hal make the team invisible, and attack Magneto "killing" him all before Magneto can react to anything? 😑 Do you see the kind of holes you're leaving in your opening strategy? Besides, he wouldn't lay a finger on Mags with Morg attacking him.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Sorry, but I'm afraid not. He was only drained because he was in a "dark" dimension.

Again, your only saying that it was because of the dark dimension without having any evidence of it. Fact is, they didn't say that it drained him because they were in the dark dimension, they just said it. So, all we have to go by is the fact that Silver Surfer would be DRAINED after using that attack.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Once again, they can't counter our holograms, our invisibility, our greater versatility, or our speed. Magneto is dead in the first second of the fight, Captain Atom is easily overloaded or ko'ed by our energy, telepathic, physical, and chemical attacks, and Morg is stuck fighting an opponent he can't see.

No, you have too many holes in your opening strategy I'm afraid. 😬 Captain Atom wouldn't be overloaded considering he can control the amount he takes in, and Morg would be beating on a drained Silver Surfer like a hillbilly on his wife. Captain Atom would just go "nuclear" on your team and expel all types of radiation. Magneto would f*ck up Maxima, and Morg would beat fatigued SS.

[Judges Vote]
After reading every thing that you have said to this point, I am voting for The Cosmic Caballeros. Their plan just seems more solid, they kept the Forces of Nature on the defensive through most of this debate and took the fight to F.O.N. from the start, setting the pace for the whole thing. I can see their plan happening where all i see for F.O.N. is, this keeps my character alive, this keeps the other alive. Plus Forces of Nature didn't use Morg practically at all, where the Cosmic Caballeros Had every member jump all over the F.O.N. within seconds of the duel start. Thats my take of the fight.

Why you son of a *****!!! 😠 Nah, just kidding. 😛

[The best judge this side of universe's Vote]

I'm going to have to agree with outarddwarf. For the most part I've seen FON on the defense, and I'm not entirely convinced that some parts of the defensive strategy would work. So my vote goes to the Cosmic Caballeros too.

I'd like to think that you guys had difficulty choosing who to win. 🙁

Originally posted by batdude123
I'd like to think that you guys had difficulty choosing who to win. 🙁

Bah!! I need some of newjak's cake!

{Judges Vote from the coolest Judge}
Well Both sides did good but I'm gonna have to go with the Forces of Nature on this one I think the Morg arguements were great and overall they had the stronger characters sorry Leo/Khan my vote counts as 4 so you loose.
And some cake for the winners Batdude/Darkcrawler you earned it.

AH HA!!! 💃 😱

I'd still like Val and Ill to give their opinion. 😬