Jack and lizzie

Originally posted by katelovespirate
kiss comments from a reliable online encyclopedia (seriously, hehehe)

"As Sparrow predicts, Elizabeth's final monumental scene in Dead Man's Chest involves her acting very self-serving and pirate-like. Elizabeth realizes that the only thing that Davy Jones really wants is Jack Sparrow to settle his debt. So, in order to save herself, Will, and the rest of the Black Pearl's crew from relentless pursuit by a vindictive Jones, Elizabeth kisses Jack passionately, very effectively distracting him as she chains him to the mast of his sinking ship, forcing him to stay and face Jones and the Kraken (the sea creature from nautical folklore, which Davy Jones commands in the film) while she and the others escape. This plan however was flawed as Jack had earlier left the Black Pearl and the Kraken did not follow him; the monster continued to tear apart the ship. With a smile on his face, Jack looks at Elizabeth after the smoldering kiss and simply utters, "Pirate." Jack manages to free himself, but goes down fighting as the Kraken consumes him and sinks the Black Pearl.

As Elizabeth enters the longboat leaving the Black Pearl, Will (who, unbeknownst to Elizabeth, had witnessed the kiss) accusingly asks her where Jack is. She replies that he had decided to stay behind and give the rest of them a fighting chance.

In the final act of the film, Elizabeth is shown to have considerable remorse for her actions. When Tia Dalma asks if she is willing to go to the ends of the earth to save Jack, she replies, "Yes," leaving the love triangle between her, Will and Jack suspensefully unresolved."

Saving herself is selfish yes..but saving Will and the others..no way thats a good deed..she didnt fo it for them. there is also the whole fact that she knew they could have gotten away and they all could have fought Jones for Jack..Jones cant step on land..and they could have all gotten away whilst the kraken thinks it just killed Jack on the kraken.. Jack is her friend he came back for her..She still wouldn't have done that to him if she had got that Kiss earlier..That scene was totally about pent up tension that should have been released earlier but exploded with dramatic consequences I'm still not buying into that whole "doing it for the others" line. I think she's feeling remorse because she just chose to do something stupid to jack and all for herself..but at the time she was blinded by lust. Later she realizes how she didn't have to do that to him. Its all about the guilt too. If she really did do that to save the others then there would be little to no remorse because she would be convinced she did the right thing..deep down she KNOWS she did it for herself and herself alone..She didnt do it to save Will or anyone else. Its going to come up in the next movie I bet..Jack s going to tell her that she didn't have to do it..and that she lied to him.

sorry I mean Killed jack on the pearl^

The person who wrote this is basing what they think on what they just see on screen at the time..when they are missing the little things. When you study a scene you have to look at how it relates to scenes before it and after it to find out what it means to the story..you have to look at the overall picture and the themes that it relates to and the ones it doesn't..this person is just looking at the scene itself without looking deeper. This story is riddled with hidden meanings that you are supposed to miss first time...

Also that Kiss wasn't just a distraction..she was gagging to do it throughout most of the movie. Thats why she pulled in to kiss him again..she loved it.

Originally posted by Lyna303
still not convinced... ❌

how about the fact the movie is basically moulded on the story of Empire Strikes back.and at the end of that we know Hans Solo gets the girl instead of luke..in the next one we figure out that Luke is Layahs sister. Of course they cant do that because of the first film where their blood wasn't the same.. what they are doing instead is making a davy/Will simerlarity which would just as effectivly give them reason to split up. so Liz can go with Jack.

Even the next one is showing signs of being moulded on the formula of Return of The Jedi.

😂

Originally posted by Lyna303
omg...i think you overanalyzed a little bit but its still funny lol

I seriously wouldn't put it part Disney to do that 😂 I was taught to spot things like this in my film course at college. Every good film has hidden meanings that symbloise whats really going on in the story but arn't all that obvious..so they drop as many hints as they can by adding in lots of metaphors for other things when it looks like something else.

That hat theory of mine kinda backs up the theory that that last scene resembled the sex they would have had if it wasnt a PG 13 😂 The movie was about Liz having pent up sexual tension that she should have got rid of on her wedding night..she became massivly surpressed/attracted to jack/ and finally got to release it with him..since disney cant add in a sex scene they add in something that resembles Jack/Liz having sex.

Also Liz has completley changed from someone who wants marriage to someone who is pretty unfaithful and piratelike. There were umpteen hints in the movie that suggest she doesn't really want that kind of life with Will. The whole movie was about breaking them up so that she could develop as a character into a pirate and have her priorities change.

Also read my hat theory it suggests that Jack has found his equal in Liz..he's found the missing part of him.

My hat theory.

--------------------------------

The loss of his hat is significant..and the fact Liz keeps wearing a similar one to him from the moment he first sees her is also significant..her character didn't need that particular hat at all so it could symbolise something else. the hat stands out when she wears it..its meant to canth the audiences eye. In my opinion its no coincidence that Jack's character is missing his hat throughout the movie and Liz's charcter is basically wearing it.its like a puzzle piece thats meant to fit together.

So basically to start with he's loses his beloved hat and it makes him feel incomplete. He wants it back to make him feel complete

The part in Tortuga where he didn't feel right trying on all the hats has a double meaning. Its also the point in the movie where his character is in a great state of confusion over what the compass is telling him he wants..he thinks its saying lots of different things (when its actually pointing to liz) He leaves with no hat..he didn't find the right one.

Then hello hello... Liz turning up looking like him but wearing a hat similar to his missing one symbolises that SHE is the missing part of him.

notice he stops worring about the compass not showing him what he wants, Liz just came and resembled the end to all his troubles. "coincidently" wearing a similar hat to his lost one.

At the end after he gets what he wants from Liz strangley enough his hat comes back symbolises that he's finally found the missing part of himeslf "coincidently" when LIZ just came down to his level..his equal.

And before you say "the hat was to hide from the men on the ship, thats not true..she ditches that hat which is straw and all of a sudden she sports one that looks exactly like Jack's missing one as soon as she meets him.

Jacks hat resembles a huge part of his character..its missing..so part of him is mising. Liz turns up looking just like him but wearing his beloved hat..Liz is the missing part of him. Its there throughout th entire movie..she never takes it off until the end..just before Jack gets his back 😂

^^ ALL good points.....

so guys, i was trying to remember, but i just cant... what was going through your heads the first time you saw POTC2 and Jack and Liz actually kissed, before she chained him up.... what were you all thinking?

I was probably spazzing out, but thinking something along the lines of: FINALLY! and good thing Will sees, that will get him out of the picture pretty quick, and okay, now was not the best time to do this, go get on the boat and continue later... and then shock/horror/heart palpatations/guilty excitiment when i saw the chain. i almost ripped the hands off my two best friends, literally, hahaha.
just wanted to relive that. i was SOOOOO unprepared for it. i think because i am used to being disappointed in disney films when it comes to flirtations etc.... i was soooo happy they went through with that...

^^ LOL me too.

I was like "oh I so totally knew she was goning to kis him..but BETRAY HIM?" I felt like it didnt make sense that she would do that to him for no good reason lol. Now I understand though lol.

I was just reading up on what happened in the empire strikes back and Jedi..and it IS really similar 😂

^^ LOL.....I can't wait to see the trailors for this......and get a better idea.....luckily the trailors come out when the DVD for 2 comes out....so we don't have to wait long for that lol..

YEH true 😄

LOl the East India Trading company resembles the Empire. And they have just got a whole lot stronger for the next movie by getting Davy's heart..Same thing happens in Jedi, they get a whole lot stronger. 😂

Also Jacks Pearl resembles the millenium falken

oh gee the merchandise franchise is definately beginning to resemble star wars'...

i am still holding out that the 3rd one wont carry over too many similarities for the 3rd star wars- a few will be fine, but i want to be surprised. i know ted and terry are brilliant writers, fully capable of coming up with a unique story. i think all trilogies share some obvious trends, but this love triangle is slightly different, seeing as Luke and Leigh were never really pinned together anyway- they met randomly and were sort of friends while she flirted with Han. In this one, we have childhood sweethearts who were on the way to the alter- it will take a lot more explaining to break that all up--- which DIsney sort of started to do in the 2nd one, but IMO, they didnt go far enough, and they will either have to do a lot of explaining in the next one, or it wont make sense and everyone will be sad. hehehe.
i hope Kiera doesnt wear something that scandalous--- but i bet she looks great in those slinky chinese dresses, hahahaha. 🙂
council of Pirate lords? i smell a very funny scene in the making....

There is the whole Will/Davy thing..and Layah actually did get pretty involved with luke by the end of the first one..eww she kissed her brother! they looked as if they were going to be an item..Also there were many hints that the wedding's not gonna happen...

You know what. Jack COULD have got away..and someone just said something to me that made me think it. He could have got on the escape boat and Liz and the rest could have just let him make his own way back from the Island. Liz knew he could have, she saw that the Kraken was only interested in destroying the pearl. but noooo she wanted to be selfish..

After the kraken attacks its object it goes straight back to Davy Jones and he was already WAY out of the picture. So it would have attacked the pearl and returned to Davy..and they could have all got away on the boat unharmed.

Davy would have assumed that there were no survivours because the Kraken only comes back once it has destroyed it's target (the pearl) Also he assumed that Will was dead when the kraken returned..and will basically got to the Island hitching a ride on the front of Davies ship..So davy would have been pretty oblivious to jack having survived..for quite a while actually..

Liz is such a lying..so and so 😂 "Its after you not the ship" stop talking CRAP WOMAN!

yeah, but Liz didnt know all that. She didnt know how the thing attacked, she hadnt seen Will escape on Davy's ship or anything... she assumed it knew where Jack was, because of the spot. She probably had no idea how it worked or that they probably could have escaped. The only info she had was the it was Davy's henchman, and it actually kept going for the pearl when Jack was rowing away, which pissed her off IMO, so i dont know. I think it was a confusing moment for her- i think she WAS being selfish and giving in to passion, but she also somewhat believed in what she said to Jack... or was trying desperately to believe it, so she wouldnt feel as guilty.

I also think she was expecting another miraculous escape for Jack. As in the first, when the Interceptor is blown up, and then Will appears anyway, i think deep down she was expecting Jack to pop up on the boat or something. But of course he didn't. Then she realized she had gone too far.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
yeah, but Liz didnt know all that. She didnt know how the thing attacked, she hadnt seen Will escape on Davy's ship or anything... she assumed it knew where Jack was, because of the spot. She probably had no idea how it worked or that they probably could have escaped. The only info she had was the it was Davy's henchman, and it actually kept going for the pearl when Jack was rowing away, which pissed her off IMO, so i dont know. I think it was a confusing moment for her- i think she WAS being selfish and giving in to passion, but she also somewhat believed in what she said to Jack... or was trying desperately to believe it, so she wouldnt feel as guilty.

I also think she was expecting another miraculous escape for Jack. As in the first, when the Interceptor is blown up, and then Will appears anyway, i think deep down she was expecting Jack to pop up on the boat or something. But of course he didn't. Then she realized she had gone too far.

I agree she didn't know all that. But she did know that she could have given Jack the chance to get away on the Island..and Will would have probably stepped in and said "he thought it killed me and i stowed away to the island under his nose".

It did piss her off that he left but the fact that he came back completley wiped that away. You can see the pure gratitude on her face that he came back. Yes I agree..she was trying to justify her actions there by saying "its after you not the ship" and Jack looks at her there as if he know's she's lying because he knows he could have escaped too...the smirk leaves his face a little bit.. she then just drops the denial and goes in to kiss him again and says "I'm not sorry" He got his big smirk again.

Its not that she was telling the truth about being "not sorry" but she was sounding more like a pirate when saying it so it was more truthful to herself..when she was saying "its not after us, its the only way dont you see" it was more as if she was trying to sound honorable Jack didnt like that ohh no, his smirk leaves a tad...she sees that he's not convinced then goes in to kiss again as if she's finally just given up trying to be in denial over what she really wants there. Its like "I want another kiss...and I want to be a pirate"

I agree though..I think she thought he might make a big escape..but noo 🙁

I also dont think it can sense where Jack is by the black spot. It attacks where davy says Jack is. It attacked that greek boat thinking thats where Jack was. The black spot was just to remind Jack about the debt he had to pay..no where in the movie does it hint that Davy can track jack due to the black spot...THEY had to find davy at first with Tias help..Davy didnt come after him.

I think LIz had a pretty good idea of what the kraken was doing..It was atacking the pearl not Jack. She saw it.

^^ Yea, I agree, she made that up as an exuse.......for her to chain him without giving the real explaination....

Originally posted by katelovespirate

anyone notice how the new clothing styles these days seem awfully piraty?

Yes! I was watching Extra and thats what they were talking about. some chick was saying how to wear them and stuff. skulls everywhere, knee high boots, gold necklaces. idk if i want it to be trendy...

hahahaha.... yeah i think there may be some inconsistensies with the Kraken...
at the beginning when Bootstrap turns up and gives Jack the bad news, and Jack asks about the beastie, he says something like "the beast comes now, born with ravenous hunger to the man what bears the black spot..."

but then, i agree, its odd that it goes after Jack's hat with the other ship, and goes after the pearl when Jack is floating away. The pearl one might have had something to do with the fact they made it mad, so it was out for revenge on the pearl before it got to Mr. Sparrow, but it all seems a little inconsistent.

Everyone is saying that Jack/Liz breaks the rules of the Disney film, but I just wanted to bring up some very dark, very "unfitting" things Disney has done, not just with pirates, but with their movies.
1. The Lion King shows a murder and Pocahontas shows an accidental shooting. These aren't kiddie movies, they have adult themes and make it very clear evil exists in the world.
2. What is POTC about? Pirates! Raping and pillaging was what they did! Yet Disney made them the good guys with no precedent. There was no pirate movie before it in the last few years that did well at all, and the last time the genre was popular was in the 20s and 30s with the Errol Flynn, type stuff.
3. Disney has gotten away from its image of creating fairy tale worlds like Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin (to my dismay), and has moved to darker themes like all the lust in Hunchback of Notre Dame and the New Age spirtuality in Atlantis. They aren't all about the fairy tale anymore.

Don't assume just because it's Disney that they'll do Will/Liz. I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I don't think it's a safe bet that they'll do Will/Liz.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Everyone is saying that Jack/Liz breaks the rules of the Disney film, but I just wanted to bring up some very dark, very "unfitting" things Disney has done, not just with pirates, but with their movies.
1. The Lion King shows a murder and Pocahontas shows an accidental shooting. These aren't kiddie movies, they have adult themes and make it very clear evil exists in the world.
2. What is POTC about? Pirates! Raping and pillaging was what they did! Yet Disney made them the good guys with no precedent. There was no pirate movie before it in the last few years that did well at all, and the last time the genre was popular was in the 20s and 30s with the Errol Flynn, type stuff.
3. Disney has gotten away from its image of creating fairy tale worlds like Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin (to my dismay), and has moved to darker themes like all the lust in Hunchback of Notre Dame and the New Age spirtuality in Atlantis. They aren't all about the fairy tale anymore.

Don't assume just because it's Disney that they'll do Will/Liz. I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I don't think it's a safe bet that they'll do Will/Liz.

Those are some BRILLIANT points. Honestly, good thinking all around. Hunchback--- totally shocked me with all the OBVIOUS lust. I wouldnt take my kid to it. And yeah, they really mess around with spiritual themes, that sort of thing. even beauty and the beast is pretty dark. (but beautiful).

I do think this next film will shock some people... i think it is going to cross lines, be a huge deal, that sort of thing. whether that includes jack and liz getting together i dont know... but im hoping for the best!!! 🙂

Something also caught my attention watching the "two peas in a pod" deleted scene. Everyone talks about that scene showing how similar they are, but look at Jack's face when he tells her he admires anyone who does whatever it takes. Ever since people were saying that he acts fairly normal (for him) around Liz, I've noticed it, but here, all the cartooniness is gone, every drop! The way he's looking at her, if it had been left in, I would have sworn they would end up together.