Batman versus Spiderman(h2h only)

Originally posted by Juntai
That's really faulty logic.

Flash's speed isn't relative to either strength or actually running capacity. He draws power from an extradimension force.

And Hulk does have a measure of superspeed and reflex, etc, granted to him through his strength. He can leap out of the way of attacks, run a couple hundred miles an hour at full sprint someone posted before.

A lot of Spidey's speed and reflex are drawn from his strength, he can yank a web and throw his meager buck fifty weight body around like a ragdoll, or leap incredibly high out of the way of attacks. Trust me, without his strength, he loses a lot of versatility. Especially in a hand to hand fight where his webs and stuff don't come into play. His only advantage is spidersense, but Batman with these restrictions becomes much more physically imposing than the meager Parker, and a much much more experienced brutal and tactical fighter.

In which case he'd win.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I think the basis of this thread though is meant to be that Spider-Man is only deprived of his strength though, while maintaining all his other abilities.

In which case he'd win.

"How bout we spice up this fight?

Batman gets the symbiote suit and becomes uhh....Vampire Bat . So he has all the abilites of spider-man(same strength etc) but no spider sense and he is not "immune" to spidey's spider sense the way venom is.
Who'd win now?"

Did you happen to see the thread creator post that one though?

In that situation, I'd give bats 7-10/10.

Originally posted by Juntai
That's really faulty logic.

Flash's speed isn't relative to either strength or actually running capacity. He draws power from an extradimension force. The source of all kinetic energy. He's like the god of speed.

And Hulk does have a measure of superspeed and reflex, etc, granted to him through his strength. He can leap out of the way of attacks, run a couple hundred miles an hour at full sprint someone posted before.

A lot of Spidey's speed and reflex are drawn from his strength, he can yank a web and throw his meager buck fifty weight body around like a ragdoll, or leap incredibly high out of the way of attacks. Trust me, without his strength, he loses a lot of versatility. Especially in a hand to hand fight where his webs and stuff don't come into play. His only advantage is spidersense, but Batman with these restrictions becomes much more physically imposing than the meager Parker, and a much much more experienced brutal and tactical fighter.

Alright, then what's your excuse for other speedsters? Quicksilver, for example? He's not overly super-strong, yet one of the fastest speesters/fastest reflexes in Marvel. Do tell.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Alright, then what's your excuse for other speedsters? Quicksilver, for example? He's not overly super-strong, yet one of the fastest speesters/fastest reflexes in Marvel. Do tell.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Alright, then what's your excuse for other speedsters? Quicksilver, for example? He's not overly super-strong, yet one of the fastest speesters/fastest reflexes in Marvel. Do tell.

Answer me this, do you honestly think Spidey could do 99% of the stuff he does, without his particular level of strength to yank him around or leap him out of situations, etc?

Originally posted by Skeets
He cn leg press a bunch.. 🙂

That's why I said he's not "overly super-strong", yet still runs in excess of Mach 10.

I know he can leg-press up to approximately 1-2 tons, and 1000 lbs with his upper body.

Either way, the thread creator gave Batman an equal footing no matter how we're viewing the strength derived speed or not. He gave Batman the symbiot to counter everything Spidey has but Spideysense. I believe Batman's pure knowledge and skill in combat and combat tactics will take the win with such an even footing.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's not an excuse, it's rationalization.

Answer me this, do you honestly think Spidey could do 99% of the stuff he does, without his particular level of strength to yank him around or leap him out of situations, etc?

Yes. Just not nearly as easily. Don't get me wrong, I definitely understand your argument, I've used the same exact argument before in other threads for various reasons. But strength is not always the sole reason for super speed. As Quicksilver, Northstar, Surge, etc., can tell you, sometimes super-speed is just super-speed.

Anyways, for this fight, I believe it's implied that only his super-strength is taken away, leaving his speed/agility/reflexes the same. Otherwise, I would view this as a spite thread. Because there's no way a completely depowered (which he would for all intents and purposes be) Spider-Man would be able to do a thing to Batman.

So, in short, Spider-Man wins 10/10.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Yes. Just not nearly as easily. Don't get me wrong, I definitely understand your argument, I've used the same exact argument before in other threads for various reasons. But strength is not always the sole reason for super speed. As Quicksilver, Northstar, Surge, etc., can tell you, sometimes super-speed is just super-speed.

Anyways, for this fight, I believe it's implied that only his super-strength is taken away, leaving his speed/agility/reflexes the same. Otherwise, I would view this as a spite thread. Because there's no way a completely depowered (which he would for all intents and purposes be) Spider-Man would be able to do a thing to Batman.

So, in short, Spider-Man wins 10/10.

Batman 7-10/10

Originally posted by Juntai
Either way, the thread creator gave Batman an equal footing no matter how we're viewing the strength derived speed or not. He gave Batman the symbiot to counter everything Spidey has but Spideysense. I believe Batman's pure knowledge and skill in combat and combat tactics will take the win with such an even footing.

It does make more sense that it would be a much closer fight, but I still think Spidey would take the majority. For one, Batman would not be immediately adjusted to having such different stats. He'd have to fight completely differently for one. It's like if you've been training with 1000 lb weights on every inch of your body. You were then able to perform normally with them. If you take them off, you're suddenly completely thrown off balance. You execute your attacks far too fast and wildly, all of your maneuvers are very thrown off, since you're now moving too fast to do your moves correctly.

See, logic can be applied to Batman as well (as crazy as that sounds).

Spidey, being much more experienced with his powers, would still win thsi fight against Batman. In this new battle, Spidey wins 8/10.

Originally posted by Juntai
You missed the post where the thread creator gave Batman the venom symbiot didn't you? Hell I even reposted it and commented on it twice now in the time you've been reading. Spidey lost all advantages, Bruce is the better stronger and smarter fighter. Without reflexes/agility/speed advantage he's done no matter how we view the strength factor, in which I still see what I wrote as correct.

Batman 7-10/10

No, I saw it. I was answering previous posts. Relax. See above for the rebuttal.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
It does make more sense that it would be a much closer fight, but I still think Spidey would take the majority. For one, Batman would not be immediately adjusted to having such different stats. He'd have to fight completely differently for one. It's like if you've been training with 1000 lb weights on every inch of your body. You were then able to perform normally with them. If you take them off, you're suddenly completely thrown off balance. You execute your attacks far too fast and wildly, all of your maneuvers are very thrown off, since you're now moving too fast to do your moves correctly.

See, logic can be applied to Batman as well (as crazy as that sounds).

Spidey, being much more experienced with his powers, would still win thsi fight against Batman. In this new battle, Spidey wins 8/10.

Originally posted by Juntai
Not really, his agility without his strength backing it wouldn't be greatly over Batman's norm either way. And Spidey will be just as much at a loss without his strength he relies on as Batman would be with increased stats. Both would be thrown off of their normal game.. But neither is going to change the fact all Bruce needs to do is wait for Peter to throw a chump jab or kick, since Peter's hand to hand skills are lacking VASTLY compared to Bruces, one block, one nerve jab, and it's over. Every advantage has been taken away from Peter and Bruce is by LEAGUES a better smarter battle-hardened fighter in every sense of the word.

Wait wait. So are we saying that Batman has the symbiote, while Spidey is still depowered? I'm confused. Can you clarify for me please?

Bruce may have abilities to mirror Spidey's powers, but he has no experience using them whereas SPidey has had his powers since he was fifteen. Just like not everyone can pick up a symbiote and become Venom, Bruce won't be able to match Spidey

Originally posted by Juntai
Not really, his agility without his strength backing it wouldn't be greatly over Batman's norm either way. And Spidey will be just as much at a loss without his strength he relies on as Batman would be with increased stats. Both would be thrown off of their normal game.. But neither is going to change the fact all Bruce needs to do is wait for Peter to throw a chump jab or kick, since Peter's hand to hand skills are lacking VASTLY compared to Bruces, one block, one nerve jab, and it's over. Every advantage has been taken away from Peter and Bruce is by LEAGUES a better smarter battle-hardened fighter in every sense of the word.

And with a symbiote, Bat's agility and speed would increase 15-fold. I think he'd definitely be completely thrown off when trying to perform any sort of move.

That, and it's very much debatable as to whether or not Batman could actually do anything to counter Spidey's completelyunique fighting style. One that Batman doesn't know and I (in my personal opinion with my knowledge of both characters) don't feel he could handle.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And with a symbiote, Bat's agility and speed would increase 15-fold. I think he'd definitely be completely thrown off when trying to perform any sort of move.

That, and it's very much debatable as to whether or not Batman could actually do anything to counter Spidey's completelyunique fighting style. One that Batman doesn't know and I (in my personal opinion with my knowledge of both characters) don't feel he could handle.

But...shit, 15 fold, is it?
Parker would be lucky if he could even see Batman in that instance. Given that Batman is so much more naturally gifted than himself nonpowered.

Did you happen to see when Batman and Nightwing went at it? Let's just say, the agile Nightwing couldn't keep up with Batman when he utlizes his own high flying techniques. Couldn't land a single blow, and got dropped like a punk.

I dunno I see it as a pretty weak debate that it's now come down to whether or not Bruce could utilize such a speed increase, when the guy has had speedforce shared with him and managed fine, or used a Gl ring right off the bat.[No pun intended... well .. maybe. '😉] And that's just two examples.

Most of Spidey's fighting style relies on his powers. Parker does idiot moves where with normal strength he'd be throwing jabs with no leverage[like how he jumps up and punches down, like an idiot, for example]easily blocked, countered, nerve strike and it's over.

In a hand to hand battle on even ground and the strengths thrown out, Bruce would murder Peter effortlessly, I don't get how you don't see that.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Wait wait. So are we saying that Batman has the symbiote, while Spidey is still depowered? I'm confused. Can you clarify for me please?

Originally posted by Juntai
No, Batman's mimiced or topped most any of Parker's agilitiy feats and without powers.

But...shit, 15 fold, is it?
Parker would be lucky if he could even see Batman in that instance. Given that Batman is so much more naturally gifted than himself nonpowered.

Did you happen to see when Batman and Nightwing went at it? Let's just say, the agile Nightwing couldn't keep up with Batman when he utlizes his own high flying techniques. Couldn't land a single blow, and got dropped like a punk.

I dunno I see it as a pretty weak debate that it's now come down to whether or not Bruce could utilize such a speed increase, when the guy has had speedforce shared with him and managed fine, or used a Gl ring right off the bat.[No pun intended... well .. maybe. '😉] And that's just two examples.

Most of Spidey's fighting style relies on his powers. Parker does idiot moves where with normal strength he'd be throwing jabs with no leverage[like how he jumps up and punches down, like an idiot, for example]easily blocked, countered, nerve strike and it's over.

In a hand to hand battle on even ground and the strengths thrown out, Bruce would murder Peter effortlessly, I don't get how you don't see that.

if Spidey doesn't have his strength but all his other powers he'll destroy bats h2h.

spidey doesn't really use his strength like you would think against someone when he fights.

Everytime I see a thread like this, I think...

More-powerful-guy vs less-powerful-guy, but the more-powerful-guy can't use any of what makes him more-powerful. This way he's equal to/less-powerful than the less-powerful-guy.

If that's the case, what's the point?

Here, how about...
Superman vs Jubilee "with a twist" (which always make sit sound like a summer drink): Superman can't use Any of his powers and has a migraine headache. Who wins?

Originally posted by Juntai
Neither have super strength, [so its all natural strength]but Bruce has the symbiot to make up for any other disadvantage. Didn't you read the first page?