Could Sion have possibly replicated Sidious' Force Storm?

Originally posted by Spartan ll
1. Yeah, I did. You need to learn reading comprehention and how to spell. I never said anything about Kun being able to switch bodies, he could only hold his spirit and consiousness to a specific place.

2.Not unless he gets the Force drained out of him from Nihilus or Palpatine(Yes, Palpatine DOES know every darkside technique known, he even made a few himself(Force Storm), from the DE Sourcebook itself.), if you look on the Official K2 site, in Sion's profile, it states that darkside was also keeping him together.

3.No, the power and willpower to make a Force Sotrm is immense, even Palpatine(The Best Sith in History) couldn't control them completely, how do you think Sion, who is EXTREMELY bellow Palptine, would fair?

4. Your 'facts' are nothing but your biased opinion and unsupported assumptions. Not once, have I seen you list a source for your info, which leads me to believe that you are just full of shit and can't admit that you're wrong.

5.Dehydrating? LOL! Sidious' clone wasn't dehydrating, n00b. His body(s) weren't capable of keeping such power for a long period of time. Even the Sith Spirits on Korriban stated that he gave himself to the Dark Side long ago, and that they also had a great respect for him. And if you read Crimson Empire, it also shows that his last clone body was sabotaged by Palpatine's personal doctor, who was paid off by rogue Imperial Guardsmen Carnor Jax. So he was fighting off Darkside energies AND trying to keep the poison at bay at the same time.

6.No, it's because he is weaker than Sidious. He doesn't have the capabilties let alone hatred and willpower to keep himself alive long enough to take control of someone else body(Like Sidious.), the only one who has done remotely close to what Palpatine has done is Exar Kun, and he could only trap his spirit and conciousness to a specific place.

7.No, he couldn't. Again, you are basing your 'facts' on unsupported assumptions, I proved to you why Sion wouldn't be capable enough to make a Force Storm without killing himself in the process. I even have two sources saying Sidious was the most powerful Sith ever. What you are trying to say, is that Sion is somewhat equal(Certainly NOT.) to Sidious, which is complete BS.

8. You said Sion could make more devasting Force Storms as Sidious, did you not? Isn't that making him better than Sidious? Yeah, this is a complete waste of my time. Even two of the best debators here, who Ive admitted to being below them, agree with me.

And learn how to spell, please, I can hardly read your post(s).

since when i said sion makes more devatating force storms? LIAR.

3. the book says will power and anger, sion has those 2 and sion has a strong will

4.biased opinion? i hate sion for fu*cks sake, its u who claim unsupported opinions.

5. sidious HIMSELF mentioned his last fu*king clone was unstable, if his will was stronger than sion then he would have stabalised it or used darth plagueis manipulation method to live whish he doesnt have.

6. and sions will can only be broken by some one else, not him alone

7. i never said hes equal, even vader is above sion, u didnt prove sion couldnt make the storms. argueing against your own idiotic logic. you say i give bias assumptions, well look here u proven to every1 that its u who did it not me.

total pwnage

and u say sion will die if he makes a force storm and his body falls apart? so are you saying that sion will die when he fights? hell no

Originally posted by ESB Vader
force drain yes and i already said sidious can beat him in a fight,

and did the DE book said sidious mastered his masters manipulation of the midichorians? hell no, he only knew about it but never learnt it

2. DE Sourcebook was made before the PT(Which means midichlorians or whatever they are, weren't even made or thought up when the DE Sourcebook was released.), but since nothing has come forward to contradict it, it is still canon.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
1.Whatever.

3. But you said before that all you needed was hate and anger to create a Force Storm, you didn't mention any knowledge being involved.

4.
(A) Then, before, why did you say that all you needed was hate and anger to create a Force Storm? You never mentioned any knowledge involved.
(B)Vader had a big enough willpower to survive getting his limbs cut off, then being burned alive and survivning a very gruesome surgery snd being CONCIOUS st the same time. I'd say he has more willpower than Sion, considering what happened to Vader was worse than what happened to Sion.
(C)Which is exactly why it is a pointless and crappy thread.

1. sion can only make the storm if he understands the book.

4 a b and c

sion was in pieces, his bones are shattered and his flesh ripped far apart, and he rejoined them with the force, source is from the K2 site.
i am sumarising(spelling) what i read, vader there on the other hand survied because of his anger, if he was chopped into pieces he couldnt do what sion did

Originally posted by Spartan ll
1. Then we agree on something.

2. DE Sourcebook was made before the PT(Which means midichlorians or whatever they are, weren't even made or thought up when the DE Sourcebook was released.), but since nothing has come forward to contradict it, it is still canon.

last thing bout this 1, when the manipulation force thingy came out it was after DE which you are right but sidious didnt master that, he didnt master the new techniques which came out after DE id say most of them
sry for double post

Originally posted by ESB Vader
since when i said sion makes more devatating force storms? LIAR.

3. the book says will power and anger, sion has those 2 and sion has a strong will

4.biased opinion? i hate sion for fu*cks sake, its u who claim unsupported opinions.

5. sidious HIMSELF mentioned his last fu*king clone was unstable, if his will was stronger than sion then he would have stabalised it or used darth plagueis manipulation method to live whish he doesnt have.

6. and sions will can only be broken by some one else, not him alone

7. i never said hes equal, even vader is above sion, u didnt prove sion couldnt make the storms. argueing against your own idiotic logic. you say i give bias assumptions, well look here u proven to every1 that its u who did it not me.

total pwnage

and u say sion will die if he makes a force storm and his body falls apart? so are you saying that sion will die when he fights? hell no

4. Bulshit! I got my proof from the DE Sourcebook, stop lying, n00b.

5.Hello? PT wasn't even MADE back when DE came out! And Sidious clone was unstable because it was SABOTAGED! That and he had to keep the darkside from ravaging his body too soon.

6.So you're saying that if one day, Sion just decides he doesn't want to live anymore and loses all his willpower and hate and gives up the Darkside , he doesn't die? The player persuades him to give up his ways, and it is by SION'S OWN CHOICE that he dies.

7.Again, bullshit. Sion is above Vader in power, yes. But when it comes to willpower, Vader has him beat. And yet even with all the Willpower and Anger Vader possess', he hasn't even made a Force Storm. Nobody but Sidious has, which leads me to believe that only Sidious could, because only he has the Force Power , anger and willpower to do it.

Again, learn how to spell.

Originally posted by ESB Vader
last thing bout this 1, when the manipulation force thingy came out it was after DE which you are right but sidious didnt master that, he didnt master the new techniques which came out after DE id say most of them
sry for double post

Originally posted by Spartan ll
3. So does Vader and he's been through worse than Sion, and he has A LOT of anger, are you going to say he can make Force Storms out of thin air now?

4. Bulshit! I got my proof from the DE Sourcebook, stop lying, n00b.

5.Hello? PT wasn't even MADE back when DE came out! And Sidious clone was unstable because it was SABOTAGED! That and he had to keep the darkside from ravaging his body too soon.

6.So you're saying that if one day, Sion just decides he doesn't want to live anymore and loses all his willpower and hate and gives up the Darkside , he doesn't die? The player persuades him to give up his ways, and it is by SION'S OWN CHOICE that he dies.

7.Again, bullshit. Sion is above Vader in power, yes. But when it comes to willpower, Vader has him beat. And yet even with all the Willpower and Anger Vader possess', he hasn't even made a Force Storm. Nobody but Sidious has, which leads me to believe that only Sidious could, because only he has the Force Power , anger and willpower to do it.

Again, learn how to spell.

no4) u said sidious will is the strongest because he can switch bodies, hell the book didnt say that so that means vader is the best because he got burned by lava and survived? hell no

no5) and because if it was sabotaged he could have used his masters manipulation which he didnt learn, fool that means he didnt master that method weather the book says so or not because it is outdated!
like a stupid vintage car compared to a ferarri,
is the vintage gonna be the fastest because this piece of sh!t paper says so? hell no you are outdated sparten you hell sure are

no6) yes sions own choice to die, same as his own choice to learn to make the storm

no7) that is because force storm was made BY palpatine fool and that was after vader and sion died. n00b will power sion is higher because he still came back from the dead without any mechanical support like vader,
vader has no will, he is a slave to sidious, only luke broke him free from the emperor.

i have shattered your arguements and handed you your ass, now you are making me repeat them, you lost the arguement.

if sion or vader had read the book it is possible they could have replicate it, for vader maybe it is more possible if you claim his will is stronger than sion which i doubt, vader is only half of what he should be which is full potential = to NJO luke. you are only proving that vader could make one.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
True, it did come out after DE was made.But DE and it's Sourcebook are still canon, because nothing has contradicted them both(Granted about DE the plot of it itself is different from the PTs plot, but I think it Abel G Pena or Leland Chee stated in one of their blogs that DE was still canon), yet.

i get your point. but nothing states that sidious had learnt this ability, not even the book itself from DE.

and please stop the insults and criticism, yes i am wrong to scream back too

last thing here, becase sion doesnt have mastery near palpatine, with will and anger he could only replicate the storm on a much smaller scale, not as destructive, its like having a rocket launcher and the newbie user knows how to pull the trigger and aim but doesnt know where to aim it at to cause best damage.

sparten i think lets agree to this 1,
sion can make the storms but not on the same scale but a much smaller one, destructive? maybe, but not as good as palpatines because he doesnt have as much power

this would be better wont it?
i didnt say sion is near palpatines power, i only said a smaller scale

Originally posted by ESB Vader
no4) u said sidious will is the strongest because he can switch bodies, hell the book didnt say that so that means vader is the best because he got burned by lava and survived? hell no

no5) and because if it was sabotaged he could have used his masters manipulation which he didnt learn, fool that means he didnt master that method weather the book says so or not because it is outdated!
like a stupid vintage car compared to a ferarri,
is the vintage gonna be the fastest because this piece of sh!t paper says so? hell no you are outdated sparten you hell sure are

no6) yes sions own choice to die, same as his own choice to learn to make the storm

no7) that is because force storm was made BY palpatine fool and that was after vader and sion died. n00b will power sion is higher because he still came back from the dead without any mechanical support like vader,
vader has no will, he is a slave to sidious, only luke broke him free from the emperor.

i have shattered your arguements and handed you your ass, now you are making me repeat them, you lost the arguement.

if sion or vader had read the book it is possible they could have replicate it, for vader maybe it is more possible if you claim his will is stronger than sion which i doubt, vader is only half of what he should be which is full potential = to NJO luke. you are only proving that vader could make one.

2.What? I can't understand your post. I think I can read some of it. Heres my refute: it was sabotaged by Palpatine's private doctor, he more or less knew Palpatine's inner workings and how to sabotage his body(s). Even the Sith Spirits on Korriban told Palpatine what he already knew: Enter and take Anakin Solo's Body to survive. And since Palpatine knew that Anakin Solo's body was the only one powerful enough to house his spirit and the Darkside itself at that magnitude, without decaying rapidly, it was his only option. There was no way in hell he could stop his fat decaying when housing that magnitude of power and poison at the same time.

3. Choices are different than power, you can't compare both.

4.Sion didn't come back from the dead, stop pulling bullshit out of your ass,n00b. And this is a 'waht if' thread, as Nebaris has specified. And Vader has more hate and anger and willpower than Sion does. Vader was bisected on exactly 4 limbs, burned to a crisp, survived long enough to make it back to Coruscant and survived a very gruesome surgery will still being concious at the time.

5.Bullshit. All you've done is proven that you are dumber than Nebaris and can't back up your arguments for shit. Go back to elementry school and learn how to spell, n00b.

6. But didn't you just say that all you needed was hate anger and willpower to make a Force Storm? You and Nebaris stated it, yet you both keep contradicting yourselves. You two are definately not worth my time...

Originally posted by Spartan ll
1.Whatever.

3. But you said before that all you needed was hate and anger to create a Force Storm, you didn't mention any knowledge being involved.

4.
(A) Then, before, why did you say that all you needed was hate and anger to create a Force Storm? You never mentioned any knowledge involved.
(B)Vader had a big enough willpower to survive getting his limbs cut off, then being burned alive and survivning a very gruesome surgery snd being CONCIOUS st the same time. I'd say he has more willpower than Sion, considering what happened to Vader was worse than what happened to Sion.
(C)Which is exactly why it is a pointless and crappy thread.

Reading comprehension much? I stated that hatred and will were the two main factors.

Prove that it was willpower that kept Vader alive. In my eyes, the only thing that stopped Vader from dying was the prophecy. Or even his strength in the force perhaps?

Originally posted by ESB Vader
i get your point. but nothing states that sidious had learnt this ability, not even the book itself from DE.

and please stop the insults and criticism, yes i am wrong to scream back too

last thing here, becase sion doesnt have mastery near palpatine, with will and anger he could only replicate the storm on a much smaller scale, not as destructive, its like having a rocket launcher and the newbie user knows how to pull the trigger and aim but doesnt know where to aim it at to cause best damage.

sparten i think lets agree to this 1,
sion can make the storms but not on the same scale but a much smaller one, destructive? maybe, but not as good as palpatines because he doesnt have as much power

this would be better wont it?
i didnt say sion is near palpatines power, i only said a smaller scale

And yes, I'm tired of the insults.

And I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. The Sith Spirits themselves said that Palpatine was full of such anger and hatred and willpower and litterally WAS the darkside, as opposed to Sion, who only used it's power as an ed to destory the Jedi Order, nothing more, nothing less.

And we haven't seen ANYONE else besides Palpatine use or even make a Force Storm, let alone to the level of magnitude he used it at. And most Darksiders under his command read the books, whic leads me to believe that they couldn't use the Force Storm because, like Sion, they were too weak to even make one.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
DE Sourcebook states that he made it, and that he used the body of one of his Emperor's Hands to take him to Byss, so he could get to one of his clone bodies and bide his time until the Thrawn Campaign was over.

And yes, I'm tired of the insults.

And I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. The Sith Spirits themselves said that Palpatine was full of such anger and hatred and willpower and litterally WAS the darkside, as opposed to Sion, who only used it's power as an ed to destory the Jedi Order, nothing more, nothing less.

And we haven't seen ANYONE else besides Palpatine use or even make a Force Storm, let alone to the level of magnitude he used it at. And most Darksiders under his command read the books, whic leads me to believe that they couldn't use the Force Storm because, like Sion, they were too weak to even make one.

we havnt seen any1 else make a force storm because palpatine him self invented it, how many times do i have to say it.

sidious being the darkside, /nod yes and the dark side flows through sion
making him strong, his power increases when he is in malachor V.

and its not "too weak" its the will power and anger, and btw vaders command of the force surpasses sion, if they were in a fight vader would use dun moch to wear his confidence down.

the book clearly states the MOST important factor is will and anger, yes power is involed and on malachor v sion CAN do it, as i say on a smaller scale and not as powerful as the original

Originally posted by Adas
Reading comprehension much? I stated that hatred and will were the two main factors.

Prove that it was willpower that kept Vader alive. In my eyes, the only thing that stopped Vader from dying was the prophecy. Or even his strength in the force perhaps?

2.ROTS Novel, Chapter 21, Page 440.And, in 'your eyes' doesn't matter, just like in 'my eyes' it doesn't matter, it's not canon.And stop trying to pass off your opinion as canon. Alright, I answered your question now answer me this: Show me where anyone, besides Palpatine, has made a Force Storm.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
1.No, but DE itself said and even showed Sidious switching bodies. ANd yes, he IS more powerful than Vader, especially by the time of DE.

2.What? I can't understand your post. I think I can read some of it. Heres my refute: it was sabotaged by Palpatine's private doctor, he more or less knew Palpatine's inner workings and how to sabotage his body(s). Even the Sith Spirits on Korriban told Palpatine what he already knew: Enter and take Anakin Solo's Body to survive. And since Palpatine knew that Anakin Solo's body was the only one powerful enough to house his spirit and the Darkside itself at that magnitude, without decaying rapidly, it was his only option. There was no way in hell he could stop his fat decaying when housing that magnitude of power and poison at the same time.

3. Choices are different than power, you can't compare both.

4.Sion didn't come back from the dead, stop pulling bullshit out of your ass,n00b. And this is a 'waht if' thread, as Nebaris has specified. And Vader has more hate and anger and willpower than Sion does. Vader was bisected on exactly 4 limbs, burned to a crisp, survived long enough to make it back to Coruscant and survived a very gruesome surgery will still being concious at the time.

5.Bullshit. All you've done is proven that you are dumber than Nebaris and can't back up your arguments for shit. Go back to elementry school and learn how to spell, n00b.

6. But didn't you just say that all you needed was hate anger and willpower to make a Force Storm? You and Nebaris stated it, yet you both keep contradicting yourselves. You two are definately not worth my time...

tired of insults? u said that didnt you,

and sion rises from the dead after he "dies" proof, his own words in cutscenes.

sion is in pieces, stated by the K2 site. and he pieced them back together which vader couldnt do at all.

i have backed my arguements, you back up yours with childish insults

yea vader is half of luke at full potential, cuz gl said luke became what full anakin was suppose to become

we all have broke your arguements, u only reapeat them, i dont have to go back to school because i type the way i want to

and when u read the book of anger u get the knowledge.

yes we are not worth your time because you are behaving childish backing up your arguements with the same old crap and childish taunts

Originally posted by ESB Vader
we havnt seen any1 else make a force storm because palpatine him self invented it, how many times do i have to say it.

sidious being the darkside, /nod yes and the dark side flows through sion
making him strong, his power increases when he is in malachor V.

and its not "too weak" its the will power and anger, and btw vaders command of the force surpasses sion, if they were in a fight vader would use dun moch to wear his confidence down.

the book clearly states the MOST important factor is will and anger, yes power is involed and on malachor v sion CAN do it, as i say on a smaller scale and not as powerful as the original

2.That didn't help him when he kept losing to the Exile and when he was persuaded and chose to give up. Even then, Palpatine is litterally the imbument of the Dark Side, which is more than a simple(In this case.) planet.

3.I'm not to sure about that. Sion is not as heavy or slow as Vader and has the advantage of speed. Plus, he knows Makashi and Shien as opposed to Vader's Djem So, which means Sion has the advantage of switching forms on Vader and confusing Vader to no end. But this isn't Sion Vs Vader.

4. Again, I'm not sure about that. If he couldn't defeat a single person, with Malachor's power boost, then it isn't going to help much. And I'm not Sion as such concentration as Sidious does in the Darkside, to make a Force Storm. Remember, DE Sidious is litterally the Darkside(Which is more than Sion's hate, anger and willpower alone.) itself, which is more powerful than single planet,and even he has trouble controlling Force Storms. And Sion is signifcantly weaker than Sidious, so how do you think Sion will fair against such a power?

2. lol thats cuz the exile pursuaded him that he keeps loosing

3. shien is the same as djem so, and switching forms is the last thing he would do because makashi is useless against the strength of djem so and vader would use dun moch to finish sion, similar to the exile yes this is nott vader vs sion

4. u got a point but still sion has a strong will but the way he shows it is different from sidious, yes i said it is possible he could make a storm, but not as great, come on it is true he doesnt have enough power but the will and anger, the book says it >< sry i keep saying that but its true

sion could make it but if he does it at close range his fu*ked, maybe possible if he did it outside the ship.
sidious did the force storm with no problem because yes his power and will

but couldnt sion do the same? not with as much power but with the will and anger. not as big not as strong.

however there is no proof that sion can do it because at sidious DE era, there werent many sith strong like vader or sidious.

possible vader could do it, and yes i agree now his will is greater than sion, i said vader could maybe do it because will anger and he is 80% of sidious, DE sidious is about 110% 30% difference in my opinion because he learnt all the powers. his power of his normal attacks did not increase

Originally posted by ESB Vader
tired of insults? u said that didnt you,

and sion rises from the dead after he "dies" proof, his own words in cutscenes.

sion is in pieces, stated by the K2 site. and he pieced them back together which vader couldnt do at all.

i have backed my arguements, you back up yours with childish insults

yea vader is half of luke at full potential, cuz gl said luke became what full anakin was suppose to become

we all have broke your arguements, u only reapeat them, i dont have to go back to school because i type the way i want to

and when u read the book of anger u get the knowledge.

yes we are not worth your time because you are behaving childish backing up your arguements with the same old crap and childish taunts

2.True.

3.No, he isn't. He got each bone in his body fractured(One at a time.) and somehow put back together. THAT is what is one the site.

4.No, I back mine with proof from canon books, you back yours with opinions and unsupported assumptions.

5.No. Anakin/Vader is 80% of Sidious, stated by GL. And that is by ROTS, cut 50% off of that and Vader is 30% of ROTS Sidious. Vader wasn't even at his full potential when he lost at Mustafar. But Luke was probably Anakin's full potential level b DE and got stranger than him all the way to LOTF.

6.The only thing you have broken is yourself, you're just too dumb not to see it. And if you'd actually LISTEN to my arguments, you'd see that I'm right.

7.The only one here behaving like a child is you. I can't even read you posts.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
1. I said those insultd BEFORE I saw your post.

4.
5.No. Anakin/Vader is 80% of Sidious, stated by GL. And that is by ROTS, cut 50% off of that and Vader is 30% of ROTS Sidious. Vader wasn't even at his full potential when he lost at Mustafar. But Luke was probably Anakin's full potential level b DE and got stranger than him all the way to LOTF.

6.The only thing you have broken is yourself, you're just too dumb not to see it. And if you'd actually LISTEN to my arguments, you'd see that I'm right.

7.The only one here behaving like a child is you. I can't even read you posts.

vader regained his power to the same level as anakin/vader 19 years after ROTS, the OT vader is 80% still the same as anakin skywalker

6. i didnt break myself, and im listening to your arguements, some are wrong some are right.

7. if you cant reaad my posts its because u didnt learn to read

Originally posted by ESB Vader
2. lol thats cuz the exile pursuaded him that he keeps loosing

3. shien is the same as djem so, and switching forms is the last thing he would do because makashi is useless against the strength of djem so and vader would use dun moch to finish sion, similar to the exile yes this is nott vader vs sion

4. u got a point but still sion has a strong will but the way he shows it is different from sidious, yes i said it is possible he could make a storm, but not as great, come on it is true he doesnt have enough power but the will and anger, the book says it >< sry i keep saying that but its true

sion will make it but if he does it at close range his fu*ked, maybe possible if he did it outside the ship.
sidious did the force storm with no problem because yes his power and will

but couldnt sion do the same? not with as much power but with the will and anger. not as big not as strong

2. Funny, Soresu is weaker than Makashi and yet Obi-Wan and Anakin kept switching forms in the ROTS novel and were PWNing the hell out of Dooku by doing that. It's called, catching someone by surprise, Vader will get used to dueling against Makashi until Sion switches to Shien and then starts beating Vader back because Vader didn't expect Sion to switch forms.Again, this is not Sion Vs Vader.

3.*Sigh* The book doesn't matter, it was made by Sidious who was the most powerful Sith ever, OF COURSE he could use it! Even HE had trouble controlling Force Storms! What does that tell you? It means that an inferior like Sion wouldn't even be able to controll a small Force Storm without losing control of it.

4.Sidious didn't do it with no problem. It was a very deleicate FOrce Power, one wrong move, just ONE, and he would lose control of it and it would most likely kill him in the process.

5.No. Sidious himself, who is stronger than Sion, had trouble controlling A Force Storm once it was made. How do you think an inferior like Sion would fair with one?

shien is the same as djem so, sigh and vader has the upperhand because the form is based on strength