Originally posted by Escape81
Um . . . I am referring to Sadow being able to blast through crap.
True, but why make that point? Nobody else can blast through crap without an amulet, so it was created to increase his power exponentially. Now was his initial power greater or equal to Palpatine? Maybe, maybe not.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
True, but why make that point? Nobody else can blast through crap without an amulet, so it was created to increase his power exponentially. Now was his initial power greater or equal to Palpatine? Maybe, maybe not.
Finally you acknowledge it.
You were the one, DS, arguing that he could do that crap without his amulet.
No, I was counterng your argument saying they were weaker without their amulets or can't do anything with their amulets. You were trying to diminish their power without their amulets while I was telling you how they could possibly be less powerful. If anything, they were more powerful because they had the ability to enhance or augment or channel their force abilities.
No, I was counterng your argument saying they were weaker without their amulets or can't do anything with their amulets. You were trying to diminish their power without their amulets while I was telling you how they could possibly be less powerful.
For the love of God, I am not trying to diminish their power!
I am pointing out to you that they are never seen performing these magnificent feats (ie: blasting through people or walls) without the assistance of these amulets.
I am not trying to dismiss or downplay them by simply pointing out a fact that you clearly don't want to accept.
If anything, they were more powerful because they had the ability to enhance or augment or channel their force abilities.
No. They possessed the brilliance and the Sith knowledge to create items that enhanced their Force powers. Speaks well for their intellect and resources. But, in the end, it was the artifacts themselves ultimately responsible for the feats in question.
Ok then we are in agreement. They did possess the brilliance of sith knowledge that was never rivaled, not even by Palpatine.. Obviously certain things like draining life and force storms didn't require the amulets and talismans but blasting through walls obviously did. So we're in agreement. What is next?
Ok then we are in agreement.
That remains to be seen.
They did possess the brilliance of sith knowledge that was never rivaled, not even by Palpatine.
Perhaps. But, as I said, it has been confirmed that Palpatine was highly proficient in Sith alchemy and magics. Whether it is on the degree of Sadow, we will know. Personally? Unlikely - as that was Sadow's specialty.
Obviously certain things like draining life and force storms didn't require the amulets and talismans but blasting through walls obviously did.
Force Storms (in Sidious's case) didn't require talismans or amulets. None of Sidious's powers required any artifact. Which is my point. Sadow's Sith alchemy is most likely a level or two above Palpatine's own, and I'd support that.
But, without his amulets, I don't think Sadow is any match for Sidious in a combat situation.
So we're in agreement. What is next?
Depends on what you think of this.
Combat situation? Well if we talk about the physical power, Sadow is superior to Sidous, as the ancient sith were immensily strong. Now when it comes to force abilities, as you state without the amulet you think Sadow won't be a force.. And again I must bring up the Exar Kun situation, where you can't judge him without an amulet in a versus match, because you have never seen him without it. Same situation with Sadow, it's as unreasonable to say Sadow would pwn Sidious as it is to say Sidious would pwn Sadow. All you could do is a Sidious vs. Sadow fight, in which I would personally give it to Sadow. So far their most powerful force abilities involve the force storm and the amulet blast. I've seen both and its fairly obvious that the amulet blast is instant, and deadly, and couldn't be stopped by anyone but Luke, and that's just a possibility. The force storm takes a few seconds to create, and by that time Sidious would be disintegrated. In terms of saber fight, I don't think anybody could really match up to the ancient sith in a saber fight other than Kun and the DN version of Luke, seeing as they are very powerful and the sheer force of their swings would kill any normal jedi.
Combat situation? Well if we talk about the physical power, Sadow is superior to Sidous, as the ancient sith were immensily strong.
I never meant to imply a fistfight.
Now when it comes to force abilities, as you state without the amulet you think Sadow won't be a force.. And again I must bring up the Exar Kun situation, where you can't judge him without an amulet in a versus match, because you have never seen him without it.
Ah, but here's the thing. Lightsnake has already confirmed that the ship helped to cause the "supernova" boom-boom ordeal. We've already now established that Sadow required the amulets to pull off his blasts.
Now, I am not in any means an expert in TotJ. So, I have to ask, what else did Sadow actually do. You said it yourself. He was, primarily, a Sith alchemist, first and foremost.
Sidious, on the other hand, did a lot of spectacular crap without the help or presence of any technological toys.
And, as for Kun. Kun's the same way. Yes, I agree. Exar Kun could not have generated the amulet blasts without those amulets of Sadow. But, unlike Sadow, he has performed amazing Force feats without the presence of any Sith technology.
Hell, he froze the Galactic Senate and all its members.
Same situation with Sadow, it's as unreasonable to say Sadow would pwn Sidious as it is to say Sidious would pwn Sadow. All you could do is a Sidious vs. Sadow fight, in which I would personally give it to Sadow. So far their most powerful force abilities involve the force storm and the amulet blast. I've seen both and its fairly obvious that the amulet blast is instant, and deadly, and couldn't be stopped by anyone but Luke, and that's just a possibility.
Ah. If I may... I never denied that Sadow (with his amulets) couldn't defeat Sidious in combat. I used a similar situation, once before.
I believe that Traya could hypothetically defeat Sidious in personal combat (even by Dark Empire). Afterall, her instakill is like the amulet blast. Nearly, absolutely instant.
But is she more powerful than him? No. She's not exhibited powers anywhere near as deadly or destructive.
Same for Sadow and Sidious.
The force storm takes a few seconds to create, and by that time Sidious would be disintegrated.
It is a very quick attack. But, yes. Sadow's is quicker. Assuming he hits.
In terms of saber fight, I don't think anybody could really match up to the ancient sith in a saber fight other than Kun and the DN version of Luke, seeing as they are very powerful and the sheer force of their swings would kill any normal jedi.
Perhaps. But I've already proven that the Ancient Sith don't pwn all. We've already proven that Sidious can at least contend with the likes of Ragnos and Sadow, as can Kun and Luke.
Yes, Kun froze them using an ANCIENT SITH SPELL. Now did any of the ancient sith have any use of it? No. And yes in DLOTS Sadow clenches his fist, and the star blows up, quite impressive.
I never said the ancient sith pwn all, when I refer to ancient sith its Ragnos, Simus, Sadow, and Kressh. And we know the likes of Kun and Nadd are at best equal to Sadow, as well as Palpatine. The only thing I would credit is DN Luke is equal to or greater than Ragnos in force abilities, as he is beyond anybody.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yes, Kun froze them using an ANCIENT SITH SPELL. Now did any of the ancient sith have any use of it? No. And yes in DLOTS Sadow clenches his fist, and the star blows up, quite impressive.I never said the ancient sith pwn all, when I refer to ancient sith its Ragnos, Simus, Sadow, and Kressh. And we know the likes of Kun and Nadd are at best equal to Sadow, as well as Palpatine. The only thing I would credit is DN Luke is equal to or greater than Ragnos in force abilities, as he is beyond anybody.
You're missing the point, DS.
Lightsnake has explained to you, and has provided sources to back it up, that it was the ship that gave Sadow the power to do it. Like the amulets, it augmented his power.