The Antithesis of Ragnos Owns All

So you're saying the amulets logically could NOT have been used to channel their power, maybe augment it, and maybe pass down the artifacts? Or the fact that during that time period everybody used certain artifacts to channel their force abilites? You're just going to diminish their abilities by saying "They needed this otherwise they wouldn't have use it". That could be a logical assumption but so could mine. Now let me ask you something, if they DIDNT have any of these objects or tools, how would anything get passed out over the millennia? How would Kun have been in power, how would Revan, Malak, Bane, Nadd? We could argue the validity of their weapons all day. And I WILL argue that Sadow clenched his fist without touching anything, and the star blew up, that scan is clear as day in the beginning of DLOTS, so I think I'm safe with that one

Also, where does it say that Palpatine was a master of sith alchemy? Maybe he was, but the ancient sith were actually CALLED masters of Sith alchemist, especially Sadow who learned from the best alchemist in Simus..

Originally posted by Escape81
No. They attempted to reprimand him. And then they gave in to his request.

If the Ancient Sith's spirits were WTFpowerful, they wouldn't have backed down to Palpatine. But they did and gave him what he wanted. Like I said, the Ancient Sith owns all theory is no longer a valid one.

Sadow isn't as powerful as Palpatine himself, like I said, considering how dependant he was on his own items.

What do you mean backed down to Palpatine? Why are you elevating his status again? What did they have to gain or lose by backing down from him or GIVING him what he wants? What are they going to do, flex NUTS as spirits, or shut up a whiney insane sith lord? No I'm afraid that argument won't work bro.
And again you're saying Palpatine is more powerful because he didn't use anything. And I'm saying in that time frame the ancient sith were alchemists and they poured their sith ALCHEMY into talisman, beasts, amulets. That in NO way diminishes their power, that isn't a valid argument.

Prove that Simus was an alchemist. And Palpatine created Imperial Sentinels and the Chrysalids with Sith Alchemy.

Would you up about that scan in DLOTS? IT's contradicted by Golden Age...maybe you want to forget that Sadow's HUMAN in DLOTS?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Prove that Simus was an alchemist. And Palpatine created Imperial Sentinels and the Chrysalids with Sith Alchemy.

Would you up about that scan in DLOTS? IT's contradicted by Golden Age...maybe you want to forget that Sadow's HUMAN in DLOTS?

LOL Now youre playing the ignorance card again? Because they make Sadow look human then everything is bullshit? Are you just conceding this argument lightsnake or what? If you are just say so, please don't play dumb. I can also say "the most powerful sith lord in history got donkey stomped by less powerful people and a woman" which would contradict his power..

Prove that Simus was an alchemist? "Through Sith Magic he was able to live as a head". Sadow was a master alchemist as seen through Exar Kun in DLOTS and Simus was his master, it is quite logical to assume that Simus was a sith alchemist as well, unless you plead ignorance.

So you're saying the amulets logically could NOT have been used to channel their power, maybe augment it, and maybe pass down the artifacts? Or the fact that during that time period everybody used certain artifacts to channel their force abilites? You're just going to diminish their abilities by saying "They needed this otherwise they wouldn't have use it". That could be a logical assumption but so could mine. Now let me ask you something, if they DIDNT have any of these objects or tools, how would anything get passed out over the millennia? How would Kun have been in power, how would Revan, Malak, Bane, Nadd? We could argue the validity of their weapons all day. And I WILL argue that Sadow clenched his fist without touching anything, and the star blew up, that scan is clear as day in the beginning of DLOTS, so I think I'm safe with that one

This is where you are lacking comprehension.

You have confirmed that they may have used these amulets to augment or channel their power. You need to go to dictionary.com and learn the meaning of these two terms before you argue anything else about it.

When you use augmentation, you use something to make your own abilities greater.

I will not repeat myself. If they had to do it to augment themselves, it means that they could not replicate those feats without their items.

Also, where does it say that Palpatine was a master of sith alchemy? Maybe he was, but the ancient sith were actually CALLED masters of Sith alchemist, especially Sadow who learned from the best alchemist in Simus..

He was. Read Dark Empire again. He used Sith alchemy to train various Dark Side adepts, to create those massive warbeasts, and he often used Sith magic during executions. Such as Bevel Lemelisk.

Admittedly, I didn't read this, but: http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=43&page=20

The same quote on Red Guards! The best of the best!

It's bullshit because we see a reenactment in DLOTS from the holocron...the real event that we see happening in FOTSE is different, aand as we SEE the event happen in real time...

And sorry, prove Simus was a Sith alchemist. I want proof now. He used Sith magic, so did most other Sith...Dathka Graush used Sith magic to survive without his heart, so?

LOL Now youre playing the ignorance card again? Because they make Sadow look human then everything is bullshit? Are you just conceding this argument lightsnake or what? If you are just say so, please don't play dumb. I can also say "the most powerful sith lord in history got donkey stomped by less powerful people and a woman" which would contradict his power..

Wrong. I don't think you want to play the cynic card, because we have more ammo in that department than you do.

Sidious was stopped by the Force attunement of three Skywalkers. That is more Force attunement than Sidious, Ragnos, Sadow, and any other person you can think of - unless you can give me the name of someone who is stronger in the Force than a Skywalker.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's bullshit because we see a reenactment in DLOTS from the holocron...the real event that we see happening in FOTSE is different, aand as we SEE the event happen in real time...

And sorry, prove Simus was a Sith alchemist. I want proof now. He used Sith magic, so did most other Sith...Dathka Graush used Sith magic to survive without his heart, so?

Logical deduction.. Sadow was a master alchemist, Simus was his master.. It is logical enough.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Logical deduction.. Sadow was a master alchemist, Simus was his master.. It is logical enough.

Your use of the phrase logical deduction is always used as in the context of a shield. . .

Originally posted by Escape81
Wrong. I don't think you want to play the cynic card, because we have more ammo in that department than you do.

Sidious was stopped by the Force attunement of three Skywalkers. That is more Force attunement than Sidious, Ragnos, Sadow, and any other person you can think of - unless you can give me the name of someone who is stronger in the Force than a Skywalker.

The force attunement of a skywalker? I didn't know you were going to pull out the skywalker card. That would only work when the skywalkers were as strong as Sidious, which was not the case considering DE Sidious was beyond any of them. I can as well say Palpatine was a madman and he didn't foresee his death, just like in ROTJ..

And I am fully aware of what augment means. But you're saying without it they couldn't do it, when they could be just as good as everybody else, and are better WITH the augmenting. Just like Barry Bonds would probably be just as good as the best of them, but on roids he's the shit. And again do you not accept the concept as valid when I say they used amulets to channel their abilities for one of MANY reasons I have previously stated?

Ludo verbally assaults Sadow over his experiments and Simus is never blamed...in fact, Ludo respects Simus as much as the others it seems. Sadow was a radical, what proves Simus was an alchemist?

Oh, and Luke, Leia and Anakin? Tapped into the entirety of the Light Side...became as luminous beings of pure light...and they didn't attack Sidious, they 'shielded him from the Darkside.'

Originally posted by Escape81
Your use of the phrase logical deduction is always used as in the context of a shield. . .

Um ok? That maybe so, but why don't you use it in this case. Again.. Sadow was a master alchemist, his master was Simus. It is more logical to assume Simus was an alchemist as well. Shield or not, logical deduction works here.

Dooku favored Makashi...does that mean Yoda did?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ludo verbally assaults Sadow over his experiments and Simus is never blamed...in fact, Ludo respects Simus as much as the others it seems. Sadow was a radical, what proves Simus was an alchemist?

Oh, and Luke, Leia and Anakin? Tapped into the entirety of the Light Side...became as luminous beings of pure light...and they didn't attack Sidious, they 'shielded him from the Darkside.'

You can pull out the Skywalker and "potential" and "Midicholorian" card out all day, but I fail to see how the madman couldn't fight a better than average Jedi, and a woman using elementary battle meditation.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dooku favored Makashi...does that mean Yoda did?

No, that just means Yoda knew Makashi as well since he TAUGHT it to Dooku. That actually supports my argument.

The force attunement of a skywalker? I didn't know you were going to pull out the skywalker card. That would only work when the skywalkers were as strong as Sidious, which was not the case considering DE Sidious was beyond any of them. I can as well say Palpatine was a madman and he didn't foresee his death, just like in ROTJ..

No. If one of the Skywalkers were stronger than him, it wouldn't have taken two of them to bring him down. Luke, Leia, and Anakin combined their own Force attunement (connection) into an assault known as "Luminous Beings".

When that occured, for a split second, they managed to isolate Palpatine from the Force. That didn't kill him. What did is when that happened, he lost control of his Force Storm, which destroyed him and his ship.

And I am fully aware of what augment means. But you're saying without it they couldn't do it, when they could be just as good as everybody else, and are better WITH the augmenting. Just like Barry Bonds would probably be just as good as the best of them, but on roids he's the shit. And again do you not accept the concept as valid when I say they used amulets to channel their abilities for one of MANY reasons I have previously stated?

Unfortunately, we've seen Barry Bonds play without steroids before. We haven't seen Sadow without his amulets. Note it well. You confirmed that it may have augmented or channeled their power. That means that it made their power greater.

Which means without the amulets, there would have been no crazy bursts. Without the ship, no supernova stars.

Hm, where was it said Yoda taught Dooku Makashi? Yoda couldn't really use much else besides Ataru

No, that DOESNT mean without the amulets there would have been nothing of what you describe, unless you are willing to quantify their power with and without the amulets. That's like saying "Well Exar Kun would have been a weakling without the amulets". An argument like that doesn't exist since we've never seen it, so it is an invalid argument saying "They were weaker without it" or "They couldn't do it without it".

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You can pull out the Skywalker and "potential" and "Midicholorian" card out all day, but I fail to see how the madman couldn't fight a better than average Jedi, and a woman using elementary battle meditation.

If I may use your phrase:

Logical deduction indicates that it was their combined Force "connection" that ultimately saved them, as neither one were as powerful as Palpatine alone.