Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Emo isn't a subgenre of emotive hardcore, emo [b]is emotive hardcore. It's the shortened name of it. Emotive hardcore was changed to emocore, to emo. Hawthorne Heights are not an emo band. If you're going to claim the pathetic title of a genre nazi then at least get the shit right.-AC [/B]
Well, except for the Hawthorne Heights thing, it's what he said, didn't he?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There were two main waves of emo. The first included: Fugazi (the most influential to the second wave), Jawbreaker, Rites of Spring, possibly Minor Threat, Embrace, Grey Matter etc.Then other bands such as Jimmy Eat World, The Get Up Kids, Sunny Day Real Estate etc started encorporating influences from the aforementioned bands into what they were making. That being a soft rock kind of thing. This is where emo ends, really. Jimmy Eat World had emotional songs and lyrics, but it spiralled out of control and now everybody labels certain bands as emo when they're not. With the second wave of emo (as it's known), you could at least trace back to the originals.
Bands that are labelled emo today, mostly, are not emo and never have been. As stated here:
"Correctly or not [b](AC's note: Not, for the record)
, emo has often been used to describe such bands as AFI, Alexisonfire, A Static Lullaby, Brand New, Coheed & Cambria, Fall Out Boy, Finch, From Autumn to Ashes, From First to Last, Funeral for a Friend, Hawthorne Heights, Matchbook Romance, My Chemical Romance, Panic! at the Disco, Silverstein, Something Corporate, The Starting Line, Taking Back Sunday, The Used, Thrice, and Thursday. Fans of several of these bands have recoiled at the use of the 'emo' tag, and have gone to great lengths to explain why they don't qualify as 'emo'. In many cases, the term has simply been attached to them because of musical similarites, a common fashion sense, or because of the band's popularity within the 'emo' scene, not because the band adheres to emo as a music genre."Wikipedia has a massive page on it, and as I've done this more times than I wish to count, I'll link you to it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emo_%28music%29
-AC [/B]
With this being said, you've helped spread the much needed knowledge that needed to be spread. Now that the deed is done, shall we allow these people who enjoy their sub-catagory to speak amongst themselves?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Emo isn't a subgenre of emotive hardcore, emo [b]is emotive hardcore. It's the shortened name of it. Emotive hardcore was changed to emocore, to emo. Hawthorne Heights are not an emo band. If you're going to claim the pathetic title of a genre nazi then at least get the shit right.-AC [/B]
Emo is a subgenre of hardcore called Emotive/Emotional Hardcore.
That's what I said, bro. 😕
Hawthorne Heights really is emotional hardcore. If you don't believe me, look it up. I'm not trying to be cocky, I have nothing against them, they simply are emo.
I could be a prick and sarcastically tell you to learn to read, but I'm above that.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
[b]Emo is a subgenre of hardcore called Emotive/Emotional Hardcore.That's what I said, bro. 😕
Hawthorne Heights really is emotional hardcore. If you don't believe me, look it up. I'm not trying to be cocky, I have nothing against them, they simply are emo.I could be a prick and sarcastically tell you to learn to read, but I'm above that.[/B]
Apologies there, my bad. I misread as I was quoting it. It doesn't equate to illiteracy, let's not get out of control. Moreover, doing it sarcastically would also imply that you are joking. So I could be a "prick" and tell you to learn the definitions of words, but I'm above that.
What I will tell you is to learn your music history and catagorisation.
Hawthorne Heights are nothing to do with emo at all, they're a generic, run of the mill metal band. Nothing about them is anything close to emo.
Look it up? I could look it up and find Fall Out Boy described as emo, it doesn't mean they are. What matters is what actually counts as emo, what actually fits in the genre. Opeth have harsh/clean vocals and heavy riffs, are they emo? No, so stop all this irrational labelling.
"In many cases, the term has simply been attached to them because of musical similarites, a common fashion sense, or because of the band's popularity within the 'emo' scene, not because the band adheres to emo as a music genre.".
This applies to Hawthorne Heights, they're not actually an emo band, fact.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Apologies there, my bad. I misread as I was quoting it.However, Hawthorne Heights are nothing to do with emo at all, they're a generic, run of the mill metal band. Nothing about them is anything close to emo.
Look it up? I could look it up and find Fall Out Boy described as emo, it doesn't mean they are. What matters is what actually counts as emo, what actually fits in the genre. Opeth have harsh/clean vocals and heavy riffs, are they emo? No, so stop all this irrational labelling.
"In many cases, the term has simply been attached to them because of musical similarites, a common fashion sense, or because of the band's popularity within the 'emo' scene, not because the band adheres to emo as a music genre.".
This applies to Hawthorne Heights, they're not actually an emo band, fact.
-AC
Now it seems even YOU have labeled a band by the wrong genre.Hawthorne Heights are nowhere NEAR metal! Nor do they even try to be. Fall Out Boy aren't emo, either.
Here is the URL to Hawthorne Height's wikipedia page.
You can check myspace music if that's not enough, it's usually labeled under either emo, screamo, post hardcore, or a combo of any.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_heights
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Now it seems even YOU have labeled a band by the wrong genre.Hawthorne Heights are nowhere NEAR metal! Nor do they even try to be. Fall Out Boy aren't emo, either.
Here is the URL to Hawthorne Height's wikipedia page.
You can check myspace music if that's not enough, it's usually labeled under either emo, screamo, post hardcore, or a combo of any.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_heights
I never said Fall Out Boy were emo, you tottering simpleton. I said I could look them up somewhere on the net and find them described as emo. Wikipedia describes them as alternative rock, which they aren't, by a million miles.
The hilarious part is, you actually refer me to their (Hawthorne Heights) MySpace as if that's some kind of credible statement. It's MySpace scene-sters who cause all this crap because they don't know anything. Screamo isn't a legitimate genre, that's another scene kid invention, solely to make themselves feel smart. Post-hardcore? After-hardcore? Makes no sense, musically or grammatically.
For your information, I checked that Wikipedia link before you even posted it and I noticed that on Wikipedia (which is an open encyclopedia that anyone can contribute anything to, leaving any definition open to fact or opinionated bullshit) it had them labelled as emo. So what? I already showed you why that is;
"In many cases, the term has simply been attached to them because of musical similarites, a common fashion sense, or because of the band's popularity within the 'emo' scene, not because the band adheres to emo as a music genre.".
They're labelled as emo, they're not actually emo. You need to do some research before getting involved in this.
-AC
I'm not saying that myspace and wikipedia are all that credible. I realize this, my point was that the numbers are kind of against you. And I didn't mean that you thought Fall Out Boy is emo, I was simply trying to prove that I'm not one of the people who randomly labels bands emo, because they seem to be within the same fanbase. And you have no right to name-call since you've made some mistakes on your part in this argument that prove a tad hypocritical.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
I'm not saying that myspace and wikipedia are all that credible. I realize this, my point was that the numbers are kind of against you. And I didn't mean that you thought Fall Out Boy is emo, I was simply trying to prove that I'm not one of the people who randomly labels bands emo, because they seem to be within the same fanbase. And you have no right to name-call since you've made some mistakes on your part in this argument that prove a tad hypocritical.
Wikipedia has some very credible and correct articles, like the one on emo. However, it is open to anyone.
It doesn't matter if the number are against me. 50 million opinions Vs Me wouldn't make a difference, because what I'm saying is a fact. It's a fact to anyone who is aware of and/or has studied musical history and evolution.
It's a fact that Hawthorne Heights are not emo, they're just catagorised as such by fans, that doesn't make it true. They're not emo in the true sense of the word and it doesn't matter whether you carelessly label or not, you're wrong for calling them emo.
-AC
Originally posted by Bardiel13
And you're wrong for calling them metal. 😐 Notice how I don't suddenly jump all over you, spouting how you're really the "tottering simpleton." I don't see the point of you trying to prove to me that I'm labeling Hawthorne Heights the wrong genre, when you're doing the same.
They are factually a metal band though, if anything. They have much more in common with metal bands than they will ever have with emo. They're closer to bands like Atreyu and Aiden than they are to bands like Jimmy Eat World or Rites of Spring. Atreyu and Aiden are known as, and labelled as, metalcore. It's metal, shit, but still metal. I don't recognise this genre title either, but that's the area they factually fall into. They are a metal band before they'll ever be an emo band, buddy.
I can list metal bands and list emo bands, and they will always have much more in common with the metal bands than emo bands. They are quite simply a metal band, nothing more to it. Not metal in the sense of Metallica, metal nonetheless though. Shit, also.
Either way, they're not emo. That much is a fact. I'm not here to convince you that they are metal, I'm discussing emo, I.E: What Hawthorne Heights are not.
-AC
No. Simply no. Thought hardcore sometimes within the same fandom as metal, Hawthorne Heights are not metal at all. They will never be metal. They would be closer to emo than metal for this reason:
Emo is a subgenre of hardcore. Hawthorne Heights is hardcore. If you'd like I'll call it Post Hardcore. Happy, now? Metal has certain features and quirks that hardcore lasks, thus HH is not even close to metal. You probably know this, but harsh vocals does not mean metal. Since emo and post hardcore are in the same base genre, Hawthorne Heights is closer to emo, even if they aren't like you say.
Is this internet fight settled, now?
Originally posted by Bardiel13
No. Simply no. Thought hardcore sometimes within the same fandom as metal, Hawthorne Heights are not metal at all. They will never be metal. They would be closer to emo than metal for this reason:
Emo is a subgenre of hardcore. Hawthorne Heights is hardcore. If you'd like I'll call it Post Hardcore. Happy, now? Metal has certain features and quirks that hardcore lasks, thus HH is not even close to metal. You probably know this, but harsh vocals does not mean metal. Since emo and post hardcore are in the same base genre, Hawthorne Heights is closer to emo, even if they aren't like you say.
Is this internet fight settled, now?
What do you mean no? It's not up to you. Go listen to music, learn how to label if labelling is what you wish to do, because you're not a very good genre nazi, you're a MySpace genre nazi right now. There is no singular hardcore genre either, what are you on about? Hardcore was used as a prefix to a genre name when the music contained therein was the same, but just harder. E.g; Hardcore punk.
The Sex Pistols were punk, Black Flag were punk, but due to being considerably harder, they were called hardcore punk. When bands started adhering more to the Black Flag template, but with a more emotive sound -- such as Fugazi -- emotive hardcore punk/emotive hardcore/emocore/emo was spawned. Do you see how it works?
They are not post-hardcore, that's a stupid shitty label that makes absolutely no sense. Post- means coming after, following. They didn't follow hardcore punk because they weren't even making music back then, or if they were, they certainly aren't making the same music now, because there's nothing remotely connected to hardcore punk about it. People started using "Hardcore" on it's own, which is also wrong. It can apply to anything. That's like saying hardcore metal, it's stupid.
Hawthorne Heights are not emo, fact. Stone cold fact, why are you not accepting that? Whether or not you accept the fact that they are a metal band of some form is not relevant, what is relevant is the fact that they are not emo, and you are repeatedly calling them such.
The more you talk, the more you prove how little you know. This lesson is over as far as I'm concerned.
-AC
No, I don't do much myspace and Postt Hardcore IS a legit subgenre. I'm not talking about my opinion, because I don't really have any biases. I don't have any bands I hate so much, I wish they weren't metal. But, Hawthorne Heights are not metal. Believe me, metal is my specialty. I have heard and studied more metal than you can wrap your brain around. Hawthorne Heights aren't metal. You can say all you want "Well, let's see. They're kinda thrashy and scream sometimes, so heck that's metal right there!" Because that's not how it works. Don't insult my intelligence.
If you want, I can stop calling Hawthorne Heights emo. But one thing I know is that they're hardcore. I'm not that stubborn, that I refuse to change the way I think, but one thing I know is that you are doing the same as me.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Postt Hardcore IS a legit subgenre.
Maybe the idea of it is, but the literal label is not.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
But, Hawthorne Heights are not metal. Believe me, metal is my specialty. I have heard and studied more metal than you can wrap your brain around. Hawthorne Heights aren't metal. You can say all you want "Well, let's see. They're kinda thrashy and scream sometimes, so heck that's metal right there!" Because that's not how it works. Don't insult my intelligence.
Oh so you're one of those guys who likes metal for the sake of liking metal and, as a result, thinks they know about it? You're funny. You can claim all the studies you want, your posts don't reflect the same idea, because they just prove you don't know anything. I know what metal is you little upstart.
Hawthorne Heights are a metal band, their general sound is metal music, whether you agree or not, that's how it is. I know I'm right, so I'm not going to sit here trying to make some ignorant kid-mind, who uses the term nu-metal, agree with me. This is a thread about emo, so let's discuss such.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
If you want, I can stop calling Hawthorne Heights emo. But one thing I know is that they're hardcore. I'm not that stubborn, that I refuse to change the way I think, but one thing I know is that you are doing the same as me.
I'm not trying to change the way you think, just telling you that the way you think is wrong. You can continue holding that factually wrong belief, it's just stupid to do so. The fact that you call bands "hardcore" is another notch against you.
-AC
-_- You know what... screw it. You can have all the witty language in the world, but it still won't make Hawthorne Heights not hardcore. No, I don't like metal for the sake of liking metal, so don't start. We're obviously never going to agree, so what's the point? But in every music forum and music site I've been to- you, sir, are the FIRST person to label Hawthorne Heights as metal. If you want to continue this via PM, be my guest.
All music is actually EMOtional
Hawthorne Heights are NOT freakin METAL, and they disgrace the current generation of 'emo' bands with their typical 'cut wrists/black eyes' lyrics. 90% of mainstream emo is crap.
some 'emo' bands of the current generation are:
-Taking Back Sunday (probably not labelled emo anymore)
-Silverstein (yes my kmc name, lost respect for them with their latest cd becoming so light and poppy)
-Funeral For A Friend
but nowadays most emo bands do not label themselves as 'emo' anymore: since all music is emotional.
i think it depends on where you live, whatever place you live, determines what is emo or not, here, here bands liek Silverstein and Hawthorne are emo.