Exar Kun, Luke Skwalker and Jacen Solo vs. Darth Sion, DE Sidious and Darth Nihilus

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Eh Nai that's a little sketchy, the part about Luke and Jacen can separate themselves to the point where they turn into the exile. I didn't know they could become wounds in the force. That's a very grey area right there.

A grey area ? Well...
Let me put it like this: The Exile was basically a "negative" energy source in terms of the force. The NJO Jedi can seperate themselves from the force at will. Nihilus would basically try to eat from an empty plate without any result.

Or to go even further: Through the Falanassi teachings Luke received in the Black Fleet trilogy he was able to become invisible and completely unsenseable in the force - he could even hide away entire planets with that knowledge. Now logically Luke is basically not defeatable any longer after the Black Fleet Crises because nobody in the entire universe could see or sense him if he wanted.

See the problem ? Technically Luke could just disappear in front of the enemy team and than stab them without even risking to get hit.

And even if we ignore this little fact. Luke had defeated Sidious 25 years before DN already. DN Luke would crush Sidious. If Nihilus can throw Sion around like a ragdoll (cut content of KotoR 2) DN Luke can do that too. Than only Nihilus would be left and the only advantage he has is his drain ability. Now Nihilus is confronted with a person that did show the ability to manipulate the force directly (this is how he did hide away the planet in the Black Fleet Crisis), destroyed entire armies on his own, countered a force attack backed up by 375 planets filled with people, manipulated black holes and can become completely invisible and unsenseable if he wants to. Not to mention such hilarious acts like reanimating himself while unconcious (Callista trilogy).

Now if Nihilus uses his drain ability Luke could technically create a "loop" in the force that keeps "feeding" Nihilus and then rip him apart. Or he simply instantly kills him. Or he disappears and assassinates Nihilus. Luke has far more chances to take Nihilus down than vice versa.

Oh, Luke also survived an internal explosion in his X-wing through the Force...and was still able to levitate to the found without a scratch

Originally posted by Borbarad
A grey area ? Well...
Let me put it like this: The Exile was basically a "negative" energy source in terms of the force. The NJO Jedi can seperate themselves from the force at will. Nihilus would basically try to eat from an empty plate without any result.

Or to go even further: Through the Falanassi teachings Luke received in the Black Fleet trilogy he was able to become invisible and completely unsenseable in the force - he could even hide away entire planets with that knowledge. Now logically Luke is basically not defeatable any longer after the Black Fleet Crises because nobody in the entire universe could see or sense him if he wanted.

See the problem ? Technically Luke could just disappear in front of the enemy team and than stab them without even risking to get hit.

And even if we ignore this little fact. Luke had defeated Sidious 25 years before DN already. DN Luke would crush Sidious. If Nihilus can throw Sion around like a ragdoll (cut content of KotoR 2) DN Luke can do that too. Than only Nihilus would be left and the only advantage he has is his drain ability. Now Nihilus is confronted with a person that did show the ability to manipulate the force directly (this is how he did hide away the planet in the Black Fleet Crisis), destroyed entire armies on his own, countered a force attack backed up by 375 planets filled with people, manipulated black holes and can become completely invisible and unsenseable if he wants to. Not to mention such hilarious acts like reanimating himself while unconcious (Callista trilogy).

Now if Nihilus uses his drain ability Luke could technically create a "loop" in the force that keeps "feeding" Nihilus and then rip him apart. Or he simply instantly kills him. Or he disappears and assassinates Nihilus. Luke has far more chances to take Nihilus down than vice versa.

I agree with this. A good question would be how long it would take Nihilus to initiate his force drain against how long it would take Luke to fall out of the force.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, Luke also survived an internal explosion in his X-wing through the Force...and was still able to levitate to the found without a scratch

What the HELL does this have to do with anything? More irrelevant feats?

If Nihilus can throw Sion around like a ragdoll (cut content of KotoR 2)

Um... Borbarad, if they cut it, don't you think it is uncanonical?

I mean take for the example that novel where Leia and Luke were engaging in foreplay (I forgot, I think it is the one between ANH and Empire Strikes back), I think Lucas cut that, unless he is planning some really erotic situation.

Some interesting arguments. However I have to say the Darths.
While Luke > Sion, Sidious or Nihilus and Jacen > Sidious,
Nihilus > Kun and Sidious, Sion > Kun and Sidious and Sidious > Kun.
And Luke is only slightly better than Sion and Nihilus. So the Darths win, case closed.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Some interesting arguments. However I have to say the Darths.
While Luke > Sion, Sidious or Nihilus and Jacen > Sidious,
Nihilus > Kun and Sidious, Sion > Kun and Sidious and Sidious > Kun.
And Luke is only slightly better than Sion and Nihilus. So the Darths win, case closed.

Wow GM, I've never heard it an argument formatted so badly. Bravo, I really commend you.

Firstly, since when is DN Luke "only slightly better than Sion and Nihilus"? Last time I checked Luke was removing himself from the Force, crushing an army of YZ, defeating Shimmra, manipulating black holes, and slicing off DE Sidious' hand. I forgot Nihilus having the ability to sound like a disfigured Oscar the Grouch, but let's ignore all of Luke's impressive displays of power, and go on to Kun's.

If I remember Kun was able to use Sadow's amulets to a deadly degree - blasting through temple walls, Massassi, and alchemical abominations. Oh yeah, and there's things like toying with and destroying the most powerful Force users of the era, and being the strongest of said era. But let's ignore all those because we have seen Sion display some incredible acts of courage. Namely limping away like a dog with his tail between his legs after he was tossed around like a ragdoll.

Seriously, come back when you have a valid argument. Or, at least, one that is factual.

Hey, sama, I'm gonna head off soon and probably won't go have time for many responses
Care to continue the debate on IM?

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Wow GM, I've never heard it an argument formatted so badly. Bravo, I really commend you.

Firstly, since when is DN Luke "only slightly better than Sion and Nihilus"? Last time I checked Luke was removing himself from the Force, crushing an army of YZ, defeating Shimmra, manipulating black holes, and slicing off DE Sidious' hand. I forgot Nihilus having the ability to sound like a disfigured Oscar the Grouch, but let's ignore all of Luke's impressive displays of power, and go on to Kun's.

If I remember Kun was able to use Sadow's amulets to a deadly degree - blasting through temple walls, Massassi, and alchemical abominations. Oh yeah, and there's things like toying with and destroying the most powerful Force users of the era, and being the strongest of said era. But let's ignore all those because we have seen Sion display some incredible acts of courage. Namely limping away like a dog with his tail between his legs after he was tossed around like a ragdoll.

Seriously, come back when you have a valid argument. Or, at least, one that is factual.

good good

Originally posted by zephiel7
Um... Borbarad, if they cut it, don't you think it is uncanonical?

I mean take for the example that novel where Leia and Luke were engaging in foreplay (I forgot, I think it is the one between ANH and Empire Strikes back), I think Lucas cut that, unless he is planning some really erotic situation.

I don't really think the cut content from KotOR II comes into this category. It was cut at the last moment due to time restrictions and neither does it grossly contradict anything.

Even so, lots of scenes can be cut for any such reason and not contradict anything...I'm rather sure cut material goes N-canon...like with Anakin fighting Greedo