Idiotic Debating Tactics

Started by Alpha Centauri75 pages

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Unfortunately, somone's psychic sense as to whether an article is accurate or not is not good enough.

A reference made to academic standards needs to be from a reliable source and give due credit. A wikipedia reference fails on both counts, the information not being reliable and a wiki reference not giving genuinely true credit; it is for these reasons academic institutions reject them.

Belief in whether something is right or wrong isn't any good. There is no error control mechanism for wiki that makes it in any way relaible and hence any reference at all from it does not stand on its own two feet.

A wiki article may well contain very accurate and useful information but there is no way to discern that, unless it provides sources, in which case you can use the sources.

If you happen to think wiki makes a good argument, the use the argument. But that's just opinion. You can type as many opinions here as you like- you don't have to cite them.

Citation is done when you are trying to prove what you say comes from a source of appropriate authority, nut just something you personally think. Wiki is no good in that regard, as its founder was clear on (and in fact, he is now engaged in trying to create a new project that WILL be credible in that way).

Then isn't it damn fortunate that I wasn't refering to mental powers? Isn't that the damndest slice of luck? This is all based upon the fact that I was referring to a certain area.

If someone does an article on music and someone well versed in such an area reads it and confirms it to be truthful, it's not false simply because it's on Wikipedia, it's just another random person writing an article on there.

Naturally in areas regarding science or what have you, citation is needed. If someone on there writes an article on the origins of punk music, and it's correct (which some of them are, and I've read a lot of them), then they are, quite simply.

That was my only point. I agree that citing it for anything other than showing an opinion to be popular or well known, is a bit silly. I never cite Wikipedia as if it's factual, just to illustrate a point.

That doesn't mean someone on there isn't typing factual info. If you're suggesting that citations in debate should come from the actual source, not a person speaking about the source, then yes. I was just pointing out that not everything on there is false.

-AC

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I'm glad you caught it.
😊

Originally posted by PVS
exactly. i have seen ridiculous editing done with wikipedia. on political topics there would be a completely bias explanation for political terminology. i believe one in particular was "swift-boating" that i saw. it was since edited and corrected, but there was enough proof for me to not blindly trust wiki
Wait, which side are you on again?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Wait, which side are you on again?

does it matter?

Originally posted by PVS
does it matter?

Yeah, you're either with me or you're with the terrorists.

There is no in between.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, you're either with me or you're with the terrorists.

There is no in between.

-AC

now AC, the rules are NO DIRECT QUOTING!!!! now stop trolling dubya! 😂

Originally posted by PVS
now AC, the rules are NO DIRECT QUOTING!!!! now stop trolling dubya! 😂
He had it comin. 😬

still waiting around for another me2?

You mean 'mee 2'?

Originally posted by PVS
now AC, the rules are NO DIRECT QUOTING!!!! now stop trolling dubya! 😂

I...am gohna get, them fowks wot done this.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I...am gohna get, them fowks wot done this.

-AC

The US government?

Originally posted by lord xyz
You mean 'mee 2'?

i didnt realise there was a regiment to this internet misspelling thing.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Then isn't it damn fortunate that I wasn't refering to mental powers? Isn't that the damndest slice of luck? This is all based upon the fact that I was referring to a certain area.

If someone does an article on music and someone well versed in such an area reads it and confirms it to be truthful, it's not false simply because it's on Wikipedia, it's just another random person writing an article on there.

Naturally in areas regarding science or what have you, citation is needed. If someone on there writes an article on the origins of punk music, and it's correct (which some of them are, and I've read a lot of them), then they are, quite simply.

That was my only point. I agree that citing it for anything other than showing an opinion to be popular or well known, is a bit silly. I never cite Wikipedia as if it's factual, just to illustrate a point.

That doesn't mean someone on there isn't typing factual info. If you're suggesting that citations in debate should come from the actual source, not a person speaking about the source, then yes. I was just pointing out that not everything on there is false.

-AC

Well, first of all, it certainly is a good job that no-one was saying that everything on there is false then, isn't it?

Secondly, though, your protestations do not look good. You didn't say anything about expert verification, you just said "you can clearly tell whether it is accurate or not."

That's a bad approach, and is the 'psychic sense' mentality I was referring to.

Originally posted by PVS
i didnt realise there was a regiment to this internet misspelling thing.
It was a joke I invented, started of as 'mee to' the joke being that I had double e instead of double o. But then I changed it to 'mee 2'. Which do you think works better?

'mee 2' or 'mee to'

Originally posted by lord xyz
It was a joke I invented, started of as 'mee to' the joke being that I had double e instead of double o. But then I changed it to 'mee 2'. Which do you think works better?

'mee 2' or 'mee to'

mee to

Originally posted by Bardock42
mee to
Then I'll use that one from now on. 🙂

im sure wikipedia can certainly be a tool to find sources to site. its just not a valid source in itself, thats all.

Most of Wikipedia is true but most of the articles are done by officials, hence the references at the bottom of Wikipedia's pages.

nobody is calling wikipedia a source of disinformation, but rather stating that it is likely that certain articles are tainted with bias and ignorance. if it's 99% accurate on facts, then wiki is still not valid in and of itself. thats the whole point.

Originally posted by PVS
nobody is calling wikipedia a source of disinformation, but rather stating that it is likely that certain articles are tainted with bias and ignorance. if it's 99% accurate on facts, then wiki is still not valid in and of itself. thats the whole point.
Oh right.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's a bad approach, and is the 'psychic sense' mentality I was referring to.

How is it psychic? If you go there to read an article that you are already aware of, you can tell if it's accurate.

I don't go to Wikipedia to "learn" per se, I go there out of interest to read how people describe things, or document certain ideas or events. If one of them happens to be accurate on...say music, I will know, I don't need to be psychic.

Point being, in my experience, anyone that's cited or posted Wikipedia articles against me have done so after knowing that it's accurate. I agree overall that Wikipedia shouldn't be cited as a source, as it's just a documentation derived from a source, but I don't think it should be villainised as much as it is.

I've never encountered someone using it for the purposes that people here claim, though I'm sure it happens.

-AC