Classic incridible hulk vs Warior Madness Thor

Originally posted by aliveinboston
Not quite. It was his first punch without holding back. That's hardly giving yourself completely. Giving yourself completely is going all out beyond exhaustion. He barely got going.

It would have taken a while for Thor to catch up with and find where he had smashed the Hulk. In that time all hulk was able to do is stand up. I hardly think he sat there pondering the meaning of the universe while Thor caught up.

The statue would be deadly in the hands of any of the heavy hitters such as Thor, Hulk, Gladiator, Hercules, etc., basically, anyone who can throw it into space. The reason is that if the statue is thrown at escape velocity (as a number of characters could easily) and for whatever reason Thor is unable to evade, he would not be able to destroy it with his hammer and hence would "eat" it badly.

As for lacking honor, this is the key differentiator between the Hulk and Thor in all their fights and a key advantage for the hulk against a superior opponent who not only holds back for fear of killing banner but is also wary of civilian casualities, ie., "collateral damage."

Okay, First of all, I can show proof of Hulk Holging back in most of their fights and I can show proof of Thor NOT HOLDNING BACK in at least 1, 2 if you count the Warrior Madness Light vs Young Maestro. Thor admits it after Hulk jumps away after the Hammerless Fight. Hulk could have continued to pound Thor in the past till he was a stain, but he didn't.

The fact is the Hulk fights to Beat his enemies, not kill them. THe Hulk lives to show his dominance over others, and you can't show that if they're dead.

And you can spout that BS feat all you want, you know as well as I that "Tree > Hulk" is more PIS than when Thor's hallucination in Warrior Madness punches Drax (Which to this date no one has been able to explain to me).

Originally posted by Dinalfos
I was not his first punch while holding back. It only said that he wasn't holding back to explain why Hulk was knocked backwards by Mjolnir.

It specifically says, "not holding back, Thor strikes", so obviously that particular strike was different from all the other strikes by Thor. Also, the Hammer didnt hit Hulk, Thor did.

Watch the other scans. They were going at it.

Of course they were, but obviously realizing that he wasnt going to be able to subdue the hulk while holding back, he cut loose with that strike that sent the Hulk flying into the statue.

And I know the statue would be deadly in the hands of any heavy hitter. That wasn't the point. The only heavy hitter to challenge Thor at that moment was Hulk, so yes, in his hands it would be deadly.

Correct.

Savage Hulk doesn't want casualties either. In that one occasion where he threatened to "kill" the girl if Thor didn't drop his hammer, he wasn't going to kil her for real. It would be out of character.

The difference is that the Hulk is oblivious to the danger to civilians while Thor is constantly worried about it. The hulk didnt care what he threw at thor or who was inside. The moment where he finally actually hurt Thor in that fight, by throwing a train at him, do you think the train was unoccupied? Would Thor have ever considered such a tactic? Of course not.

And it's idiocy to think that Thor holds back without Mjolnir. He's not that strong.

Now youre just making things up. The hammer doesnt make Thor the slightest bit stronger.

With Mjonir, he might hold back, but we saw what happened: nothing. And just because Thor doesn't want to kill Banner doesn't mean he can do so in a fist fight.

Is this why he has twice killed the hulk with his bare hands?

Thor holding back would be him not using his exotic mjolnir powers.

No. Thor holding back is not striking with full force for fear of killing the opponent.

Thor admits that he's physically inferior to Hulk in Hulk anual 2001.

In some ways Hulk's physique is far superior. Hulk's body is much more strongly built in terms of the damage it can absorb and recover from. However, this is not the same as lifting ability or punching power where there is ample evidence that Thor atleast matches and probably exceeds the hulk, perhaps, when his power is not compromised by Odin's various mind-games, by a significant margin.

Why was Thor able to easily defeat, using physical force, opponents who would easily hold their own against the Hulk? Why was Thor able to beat down Thanos while Hulk was kicked around? Why did Marvel have Thor single-handedly (literally) kill the Hulk and Thing despite having just sustained a severe injury and being ambushed?

What's relevant in all this is not what you or I think but what Marvel thinks. The published has been quite clear. Thor can beat the crap out of the hulk without the hammer, without having "warrior madness", without the odin-power boosting his strength, and even without an arm.

Originally posted by aliveinboston
It specifically says, "not holding back, Thor strikes", so obviously that particular strike was different from all the other strikes by Thor. Also, the Hammer didnt hit Hulk, Thor did.

You should read the other scans.

Hammer or not, he didn't even scratch him.

Of course they were, but obviously realizing that he wasnt going to be able to subdue the hulk while holding back, he cut loose with that strike that sent the Hulk flying into the statue.

Which, again, didn't do anything. For all we know Thor had leverage in that panel. What happens in the scans before is Thor and Hulk going all out with Thor explicitly saying that he's not holding back.

The difference is that the Hulk is oblivious to the danger to civilians while Thor is constantly worried about it. The hulk didnt care what he threw at thor or who was inside. The moment where he finally actually hurt Thor in that fight, by throwing a train at him, do you think the train was unoccupied? Would Thor have ever considered such a tactic? Of course not.

Those were two different Hulks.

And you'd be surprised to see how much he (subconsciously) cares about the safety of others. Remember the Hulk's own series where he saved trains, planes and all that jazz from crashing because he doesn't want to let puny humans die? The Hulk is selfish in a childish way, but he's also a good hearted guy. And still, Thor hit him just as hard as Hulk hit him. He knocked him into a gas tanker, which exploded. That carelessness is what plagues Thor, but he didn't hold back. Accidently or not.

Mindless Hulk doesn't care about anyone. That's why Thor stopped holding back, because it wasn't enough. That doesn't surprise me in the slightest. What does surprise me is that he didn't use his powers to whisk him away. Anyway, the fight didn't start at that one punch. Earlier scans showed the other Avengers stand in awe.

Now youre just making things up. The hammer doesnt make Thor the slightest bit stronger.

No, but it gives him other abilities. In a man to man fight, he's simply not that mighty. There's not reason to hold back then.

Is this why he has twice killed the hulk with his bare hands?

One was out of continuity, the other was PIS. He can take his life in other way, but not in that way. That what just ridiculous. The fight happens mostly ofscreen but what is implied proves to me that the writer was an idiot who ignored a full history of much higher showings in favour of a golden moment for Thor. You don't see Aunt May laying the smack on Galactus, do you?

No. Thor holding back is not striking with full force for fear of killing the opponent.

He struck with full force before and Hulk didn't seem to care.

In some ways Hulk's physique is far superior. Hulk's body is much more strongly built in terms of the damage it can absorb and recover from. However, this is not the same as lifting ability or punching power where there is ample evidence that Thor atleast matches and probably exceeds the hulk, perhaps, when his power is not compromised by Odin's various mind-games, by a significant margin.

Why was Thor able to easily defeat, using physical force, opponents who would easily hold their own against the Hulk? Why was Thor able to beat down Thanos while Hulk was kicked around? Why did Marvel have Thor single-handedly (literally) kill the Hulk and Thing despite having just sustained a severe injury and being ambushed?

What's relevant in all this is not what you or I think but what Marvel thinks. The published has been quite clear. Thor can beat the crap out of the hulk without the hammer, without having "warrior madness", without the odin-power boosting his strength, and even without an arm.

Again, how can you match something that is so incredibly fluctuating? The Hulk has done more stuff than just the mountain feat as Banner-Hulk. And you can't ignore Thor himself saying that Hulk is stronger. I mean, how can he not be? He(talking Savage Hulk here) has NEVER failed to live up to a strength feat in the past. When something needs to be done, the adrenaline will rise until he's pulled it off. Even in instances where he's at a disadvantage, such as the times where he had to overload strength sapping devices. No honestly, if Thor can lift the Serpent, then so can Hulk. And the Hulk's strength potential is far less debatable than Thor physically killing him with one arm.

But you are right, it did happen. I can accept that. Just like I also accept countless other freak occurances. That doesn't make it right, though.think about this: How can you logically defeat someone in a battle who's more than your equal (physically), with just one arm? Eh. If Thor smacks, for instance, Thanos physically, then Hulk(Savage, Prof is the one that got beaten) should be able to do it as well. Or Thor shouldn't. The mistake many writers make is that because Thor is deemed a powerful god, he can go against cosmic beings with physical force alone, ignoring that Thor is really not stronger or more durable than some of earth's strongest characters. Thor not using Mjolnir's powers is just a brawler. And given the fact that he's neither as durable nor as strong as some characters, his victories are questionable. Unless he uses Mjolnir to speed blitz.

Originally posted by aliveinboston
It specifically says, "not holding back, Thor strikes", so obviously that particular strike was different from all the other strikes by Thor. Also, the Hammer didnt hit Hulk, Thor did.

Of course they were, but obviously realizing that he wasnt going to be able to subdue the hulk while holding back, he cut loose with that strike that sent the Hulk flying into the statue.

Correct.

The difference is that the Hulk is oblivious to the danger to civilians while Thor is constantly worried about it. The hulk didnt care what he threw at thor or who was inside. The moment where he finally actually hurt Thor in that fight, by throwing a train at him, do you think the train was unoccupied? Would Thor have ever considered such a tactic? Of course not.

Now youre just making things up. The hammer doesnt make Thor the slightest bit stronger.

Is this why he has twice killed the hulk with his bare hands?

No. Thor holding back is not striking with full force for fear of killing the opponent.

In some ways Hulk's physique is far superior. Hulk's body is much more strongly built in terms of the damage it can absorb and recover from. However, this is not the same as lifting ability or punching power where there is ample evidence that Thor atleast matches and probably exceeds the hulk, perhaps, when his power is not compromised by Odin's various mind-games, by a significant margin.

Why was Thor able to easily defeat, using physical force, opponents who would easily hold their own against the Hulk? Why was Thor able to beat down Thanos while Hulk was kicked around? Why did Marvel have Thor single-handedly (literally) kill the Hulk and Thing despite having just sustained a severe injury and being ambushed?

What's relevant in all this is not what you or I think but what Marvel thinks. The published has been quite clear. Thor can beat the crap out of the hulk without the hammer, without having "warrior madness", without the odin-power boosting his strength, and even without an arm.

"WM THor w/ Power Gem" beat Thanos, not "Thor". Quit misrepresenting feats and using Uber-Amped versions to boost the regular character dishonestly.

Your BS is what is relevant.

Originally posted by Dalak
"WM THor w/ Power Gem" beat Thanos, not "Thor". Quit misrepresenting feats and using Uber-Amped versions to boost the regular character dishonestly.

Your BS is what is relevant.

Originally posted by bigbran
he didnt beat thanos!!

Then that's even better 😄

Originally posted by Dalak
Then that's even better 😄

In Marvel: The end. Thanos mentions that the Thanos defeated by Thor was one of his clones, which, as created, were unintelligent, destructive brutes, unlike the real Thanos. So Thor ++ was able to beat watered down Thanos... .. whoopdedoo.

Originally posted by rotiart
In Marvel: The end. Thanos mentions that the Thanos defeated by Thor was one of his clones, which, as created, were unintelligent, destructive brutes, unlike the real Thanos. So Thor ++ was able to beat watered down Thanos... .. whoopdedoo.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
You should read the other scans.

Hammer or not, he didn't even scratch him.

Or maybe the hulk's ribs were broken but he healed from it. He certainly didnt get up and come chasing after Thor. On the contrary, Thor was chasing after the Hulk, who by the time Thor found him had just stood up.

Which, again, didn't do anything. For all we know Thor had leverage in that panel. What happens in the scans before is Thor and Hulk going all out with Thor explicitly saying that he's not holding back.

So are you saying that the strike that sent the hulk flying was not different from the punches that did not? What about all the punches the mindless hulk struck against a perfectly sane and conversant Thor that had no effect whatsoever? Hmmmm ....

Those were two different Hulks.

And you'd be surprised to see how much he (subconsciously) cares about the safety of others. Remember the Hulk's own series where he saved trains, planes and all that jazz from crashing because he doesn't want to let puny humans die? The Hulk is selfish in a childish way, but he's also a good hearted guy. And still, Thor hit him just as hard as Hulk hit him. He knocked him into a gas tanker, which exploded. That carelessness is what plagues Thor, but he didn't hold back. Accidently or not.

Mindless Hulk doesn't care about anyone. That's why Thor stopped holding back, because it wasn't enough. That doesn't surprise me in the slightest. What does surprise me is that he didn't use his powers to whisk him away. Anyway, the fight didn't start at that one punch. Earlier scans showed the other Avengers stand in awe.

I'm sure they were in even more awestruck when after watching a crazed hulk and perfectly sane thor pounding on each other with neither gaining an advantage, thor struck without holding back sent the hulk flying.

No, but it gives him other abilities. In a man to man fight, he's simply not that mighty. There's not reason to hold back then.

You say "he's simply not that mighty" yet he has physically beaten (without using "other abilities"😉 characters who could physically beat the hulk, plus, in fair conditions (no worries about civilian casualties or killing banner), he has killed the hulk twice, once with his bare hands, and once with one hand. If Thor's not all that "mighty" then what does that say about the hulk?

One was out of continuity, the other was PIS. He can take his life in other way, but not in that way. That what just ridiculous. The fight happens mostly ofscreen but what is implied proves to me that the writer was an idiot who ignored a full history of much higher showings in favour of a golden moment for Thor. You don't see Aunt May laying the smack on Galactus, do you?

So now Thor killing the hulk is like aunt may beating galactus? As for one being out of continuity, it wasnt a what if where character's capabilties were changed or altered as in an alternate universe, rather one that simply posed a question as to what would happen if the characters, in their current state, were placed in extraordinary circumstances. In this case, Thor is placed in a situation where he cannot hold back and must kill the hulk, which he does.

As for the other kill being "PIS" it seems that has become the standard defence for Hulk losing.

If the Thing beats the hulk, who is stronger and tougher, that can be considered PIS, but for Thor to easily beat a bunch of characters that can beat the hulk then lose to the hulk, that is PIS.

So what is PIS is if the hulk ever beats Thor on neutral ground. Of course, this has never happened. But then again, Batman beat hulk and Captain America almost beat Thor so anything is possible in the world of comics.

He struck with full force before and Hulk didn't seem to care.

Hulk did care. He realized that to beat Thor he has to hurl heavy objects at him instead of fighting toe-to-toe.

Again, how can you match something that is so incredibly fluctuating? The Hulk has done more stuff than just the mountain feat as Banner-Hulk. And you can't ignore Thor himself saying that Hulk is stronger.

Stronger in what way? He said "is there no limit to his strength" when the hulk was not demonstrating lifting ability or punching power but physical resilience, the ability to take damage and recover. In a test of strength, the Hulk was unable to defeat Thor, despite his advantage in size and leverage. Ambushing your opponent and beating him senseless before he knows whats going on isnt a win. If that's the case, the Thing can beat the Hulk.

I mean, how can he not be? He(talking Savage Hulk here) has NEVER failed to live up to a strength feat in the past. When something needs to be done, the adrenaline will rise until he's pulled it off.

More than once he has failed to defeat Thor in a test of strength. Maybe he has a crush on ol' goldilocks and this keeps Hulk's adrenaline from rising. Or maybe Thor is too strong for the Hulk to defeat.

Even in instances where he's at a disadvantage, such as the times where he had to overload strength sapping devices. No honestly, if Thor can lift the Serpent, then so can Hulk. And the Hulk's strength potential is far less debatable than Thor physically killing him with one arm.

Since Marvel has repeatedly shown that the Hulk can't beat Thor in a test of strength despite his advantage in size and leverage, and despite Thor not being at full potential (such as when he easily physically overpowered Drax and Maxam simultaneously), it becomes apparent that the Hulk's chances at lifting the midgard serpent is quite questionable. On the other hand, in the full context of Hulk/Thor conflicts, and Thor/Characters-Who-Could-Beat-Hulk conflicts, that Thor killed the Hulk with one arm seems quite reasonable.

Marvel certainly thinks so.

But you are right, it did happen. I can accept that. Just like I also accept countless other freak occurances.

Freak occurances like batmean beating the hulk or captain america beating thor are freak occurances because they are not supported by data from the past. However, Thor killing the hulk is well withing the bounds of what has happened before. It's all about seeing the bigger picture.

That doesn't make it right, though.think about this: How can you logically defeat someone in a battle who's more than your equal (physically), with just one arm?

You can't. Thats why since Thor beat hulk with one arm, we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Thor can beat up the hulk. That and many other reasons, such as all the times that Thor beat up people who can beat up the hulk.

Eh. If Thor smacks, for instance, Thanos physically ....

Thor doesnt "smack" Thanos, but he can, under the right circumstances, like when Thanos is distracted, beat him up before he has a chance to respond, much the same way that the Hulk beat Thor on that one occasion.

....then Hulk(Savage, Prof is the one that got beaten) should be able to do it as well.Or Thor shouldn't.

Savage is definitely not stronger than Thor as shown by the two tests of strength where he failed to beat Thor. Yet Thor has shown the ability to increase his strength output, such as in his test of strength with another Immortal, hercules, where the very planet is shaken. So we can see, that since the test of strength between Hulk and Thor didnt have that level of power output, and since we know that the Hulk does not hold back, we can logically conclude that Thor was holding back, at the least subconciously, perhaps because he was fighting a mortal.

The mistake many writers make is that because Thor is deemed a powerful god, he can go against cosmic beings with physical force alone, ignoring that Thor is really not stronger or more durable than some of earth's strongest characters.

Unless Marvel considers that Thor really is, at the least, stronger than those characters. And being a fictionional character adapted by Marvel, Marvel can make Thor as strong as they want him to be. There are only a handful of times that Thor has been shown to be physically less strong (actually beating Thor in a test of strength, such as Zeus) and none of those occasions involve the hulk.

In fact, by showing that Thor is atleast as strong as the hulk by not losing in protracted test of strength despite a disadvantage in size and leverage, they are saying that Thor can perform any of the feats people think the hulk can do, from killing celestials to beating eternity using infinite strength punches.

Thor not using Mjolnir's powers is just a brawler. And given the fact that he's neither as durable nor as strong as some characters, his victories are questionable.

So youre throwing out the window decades of victories won through lifting ability and punching power because, for unknown reasons, you believe that Thor isnt particularly durable or strong? Perhaps instead of questioning all those victories to justify your interpretation of one or two events, perhaps you should question you interpretation of those events. That would be more logical.

Unless he uses Mjolnir to speed blitz.

"speed blitz"? There is no such thing unless you mean that he would be taking someone by surprise and attacking with full power before the other has a chance to recover. That's not really a fair fight is it. It's the only way he could take down Thanos and the only way Hulk could take him down but unless all of reality depends on it, Thor isn't likely to do this.

Originally posted by bigbran
which time?
the one where odin power thor beat him.

SOme time in the past Thor was supposed to ahve killed Thanos, but in Marvel The End I think he's talking about the same one he talked about when he was making the Thanosi Clones in Infinity Abyss. yeah, the Thanos that THor took out was a fake.

Originally posted by bigbran
he didnt beat thanos!!

Thor never beat Thanos and I never said he "beat" him. I said he beat him down, which is what happen in IG when Thanos was distracted. Thor jumped him and pounded him to the floor.

Originally posted by Dalak
SOme time in the past Thor was supposed to ahve killed Thanos, but in Marvel The End I think he's talking about the same one he talked about when he was making the Thanosi Clones in Infinity Abyss. yeah, the Thanos that THor took out was a fake.

Originally posted by aliveinboston
Thor never beat Thanos and I never said he "beat" him. I said he beat him down, which is what happen in IG when Thanos was distracted. Thor jumped him and pounded him to the floor.

Originally posted by bigbran
oh, that was stupid, he had the ig, for god sake!!

And he was utilizing the Power Gem in a consious fashion. That means Infinite Power. Agreed, total PIS.

Originally posted by Dalak
And he was utilizing the Power Gem in a consious fashion. That means Infinite Power. Agreed, total PIS.

Originally posted by aliveinboston
Or maybe the hulk's ribs were broken but he healed from it. He certainly didnt get up and come chasing after Thor. On the contrary, Thor was chasing after the Hulk, who by the time Thor found him had just stood up.

Yeah, sure 😄 😄

If that's how you wish to see it, fine.

So are you saying that the strike that sent the hulk flying was not different from the punches that did not? What about all the punches the mindless hulk struck against a perfectly sane and conversant Thor that had no effect whatsoever? Hmmmm ....

What about all the punches that made Thor look all bruised in other fights? But seriously, the page clearly indicates that there was a long battle before that. Here, let me mimic yoúr type of reasoning:

- Hulk and Thor went at it
- Hulk kicked Thor twice in the nutsack.
- Thor says "Thee Mortal wil die!!11!"
- Hulk pinches Thor's left butt cheak
- Hulk can't stop laughing
- Thor smacks Hulk into statue with all the force he could muster yet fails to harm him.

Well, there you have it. That's how it went down.

I'm sure they were in even more awestruck when after watching a crazed hulk and perfectly sane thor pounding on each other with neither gaining an advantage, thor struck without holding back sent the hulk flying.

Yeah, except that a crazed Thor doesn't make much of a difference against Mindless Hulk. For all we know Thor moved too fast for Hulk to get a good hit in. Or for all we know, they were trading blows until the Hulk tripped over something, giving Thor the leverage to knock him away. Who knows! Nah, it's more likely that Thor just struck the Hulk with full power. It's not that difficult to send someone flying. That doesn't mean a thing. Especially when that person remains as fresh as ever. Thor used full force against Hulk and knocked him face first into an adamantium statue. That's ought to do some damage, right? Apparantly not.

You say "he's simply not that mighty" yet he has physically beaten (without using "other abilities"😉 characters who could physically beat the hulk, plus, in fair conditions (no worries about civilian casualties or killing banner), he has killed the hulk twice, once with his bare hands, and once with one hand. If Thor's not all that "mighty" then what does that say about the hulk?

character A beats character B beats, character C beats character B, so C beats A. Faulty logic, especially when you're dealing with something so widely inconsistent as comic books. You could also say that Hulk can physically beat anyone Thor can beat. Or you could say that Thor beating anyone who can physically beat Hulk is PIS. Everything is possible!

As for the other kill being "PIS" it seems that has become the standard defence for Hulk losing.

Well, maybe the writer should've thought up a better, more realistic way for Thor to kill Hulk?

If the Thing beats the hulk, who is stronger and tougher, that can be considered PIS, but for Thor to easily beat a bunch of characters that can beat the hulk then lose to the hulk, that is PIS.

It's only PIS if either character's traits are ignored. The Hulk can be tricked or defeated early on in the battle, with luck and leverage. Lots of luck. He's not invincible. It would however be pissed when Thing kayoes the Hulk in the middle of a fight or when Hulk fails to Kayoe thing when enraged because the writers refuse to spoil the fun of seeing the two collide. Hulk has enought strength to hurt Thor. He's neither invincible nor unkillable. Classic Thor, that is.

Hulk did care. He realized that to beat Thor he has to hurl heavy objects at him instead of fighting toe-to-toe.

In case you didn’t notice, the Hulk had been hurling stuff at ANYONE that came even close. He trashed the place. He was knocked against a statue, he was going to use it to smash someone. Big deal. Mindless Hulk also tossed stuff when he wasn’t provoked.

Stronger in what way? He said "is there no limit to his strength" when the hulk was not demonstrating lifting ability or punching power but physical resilience, the ability to take damage and recover. In a test of strength, the Hulk was unable to defeat Thor, despite his advantage in size and leverage. Ambushing your opponent and beating him senseless before he knows whats going on isnt a win. If that's the case, the Thing can beat the Hulk.

More than once he has failed to defeat Thor in a test of strength. Maybe he has a crush on ol' goldilocks and this keeps Hulk's adrenaline from rising. Or maybe Thor is too strong for the Hulk to defeat.

They stalemate. But the Hulk proved he was physically superior by knocking the crap out of Thor, making him look bruised and barely able to stand, whereas Hulk still looked fresh.

Since Marvel has repeatedly shown that the Hulk can't beat Thor in a test of strength despite his advantage in size and leverage, and despite Thor not being at full potential (such as when he easily physically overpowered Drax and Maxam simultaneously), it becomes apparent that the Hulk's chances at lifting the midgard serpent is quite questionable. On the other hand, in the full context of Hulk/Thor conflicts, and Thor/Characters-Who-Could-Beat-Hulk conflicts, that Thor killed the Hulk with one arm seems quite reasonable.

Marvel certainly thinks so.

The Hulk would've proceeded to kill Thor if he didn't turn around and walk away. He stopped caring about the fight and whether Thor was dead or alive. All he cared about was that the fight was over. But Thor was beaten flat. Hulk wanted him to stay down, but he didn't. Yet he could've made him.

You were talking about history. Well, history shows that Thor physically killing Hulk isn't all that reasonable. The one arm aspect pushes it over the top.

Freak occurances like batmean beating the hulk or captain america beating thor are freak occurances because they are not supported by data from the past. However, Thor killing the hulk is well withing the bounds of what has happened before. It's all about seeing the bigger picture.

Yes, the bigger picture. Ofcourse.

You can't. Thats why since Thor beat hulk with one arm, we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Thor can beat up the hulk. That and many other reasons, such as all the times that Thor beat up people who can beat up the hulk.

We know nothing. Except that Thor's particular writer sucks.

If Thor can do that, then so can Hulk.

Savage is definitely not stronger than Thor as shown by the two tests of strength where he failed to beat Thor. Yet Thor has shown the ability to increase his strength output, such as in his test of strength with another Immortal, hercules, where the very planet is shaken. So we can see, that since the test of strength between Hulk and Thor didnt have that level of power output, and since we know that the Hulk does not hold back, we can logically conclude that Thor was holding back, at the least subconciously, perhaps because he was fighting a mortal.

Oh funny, Thor can't defeat Hercules, yet Hercules was overpowered by Hulk on several instances. He once beat Herc. to nearly to death. Also, a clash between Hulk and Ironclad shook countless dimensions of the Crossroads. We never saw that with Thor either. And trust me, Thor holding back against the Hulk in a fistfight is bullcrap. You don't seriously believe that, do you? Maybe in the beginning, but not later. If anything, he was subconscioulsy NOT holding back.

Unless Marvel considers that Thor really is, at the least, stronger than those characters. And being a fictionional character adapted by Marvel, Marvel can make Thor as strong as they want him to be. There are only a handful of times that Thor has been shown to be physically less strong (actually beating Thor in a test of strength, such as Zeus) and none of those occasions involve the hulk.

Yeah, if only. If we go by one writer, then Firelord is a push over.

In fact, by showing that Thor is atleast as strong as the hulk by not losing in protracted test of strength despite a disadvantage in size and leverage, they are saying that Thor can perform any of the feats people think the hulk can do, from killing celestials to beating eternity using infinite strength punches.

You can't be as strong or stronger than Hulk if your strength has a limit. Thor is strong, I know. But for all his might, he couldn't beat the Hulk physically either. That indicates several things:

A: thor can't lifte the Serpent
B: The Hulk can do it if Thor can do it
C: All of Thor's major strength feats are PIS.
D: many more

Anyway, there's realy no telling. All we can say for sure is that Hulk can increase his strength indefinitely and that Thor is just extremely strong physically. Thor defeated Hulk with one arm, yet Thor admitted Hulk was stronger than him and he wondered if there was a limit to his strength. Okay.

So youre throwing out the window decades of victories won through lifting ability and punching power because, for unknown reasons, you believe that Thor isnt particularly durable or strong? Perhaps instead of questioning all those victories to justify your interpretation of one or two events, perhaps you should question you interpretation of those events. That would be more logical.

Eh what? I'm not questiong someone when there's no need to. Thor can defeat many people with Mjolnir. But Thor faring any better than, say Hulk, against cosmic characters in a purely physical match is ludicrous. You'll be saying that he wins because he holds back against Hulk(which usually mean holding back with MJOLNIR's powers, not holding back physically), but I'll be saying that Thor shouldn't win against cosmics with strength alone.

"speed blitz"? There is no such thing unless you mean that he would be taking someone by surprise and attacking with full power before the other has a chance to recover. That's not really a fair fight is it. It's the only way he could take down Thanos and the only way Hulk could take him down but unless all of reality depends on it, Thor isn't likely to do this.

Thor can use Mjolnir to move at light speeds. But that's not how he should win against Thanos.

Eh....Try to keep it shorter, next time 😄

Originally posted by Dinalfos
[B]Yeah, sure 😄 😄

If that's how you wish to see it, fine.

Point is, your claim that Hulk was uninjured is pure speculation. All we do know is that by the time Thor got to him, the hulk was still at the place where he was forcibly relocated. Either he was completely uninjured and was contemplating tactics while he waited for Thor to catch up or he was injured and took a bit of time to recover while Thor caught up. What do you think is more likely?

What about all the punches that made Thor look all bruised in other fights? But seriously, the page clearly indicates that there was a long battle before that.

Of course there was. It was because Thor was unable to gain an advantage while holding back that he decided to let one fly.

Here, let me mimic yoúr type of reasoning:

- Hulk and Thor went at it
- Hulk kicked Thor twice in the nutsack.
- Thor says "Thee Mortal wil die!!11!"
- Hulk pinches Thor's left butt cheak
- Hulk can't stop laughing
- Thor smacks Hulk into statue with all the force he could muster yet fails to harm him.

Well, there you have it. That's how it went down.

Huh?

Yeah, except that a crazed Thor doesn't make much of a difference against Mindless Hulk.

No basis for this claim.

For all we know Thor moved too fast for Hulk to get a good hit in. Or for all we know, they were trading blows until the Hulk tripped over something, giving Thor the leverage to knock him away. Who knows! Nah, it's more likely that Thor just struck the Hulk with full power.

Glad to see you finally understand this one aspect of the discussion.

It's not that difficult to send someone flying. That doesn't mean a thing. Especially when that person remains as fresh as ever.

It was quite clear that Thor overpowered the Hulk. The book clearly states that the Huk could not resist the blow whereas earlier, they had been bashing each other, with Hulk going all out, Thor holding back and both resisted each other perfectly well.

Thor used full force against Hulk and knocked him face first into an adamantium statue. That's ought to do some damage, right? Apparantly not.

Or hulk had his face messed up and healed from it while Thor searched for him. There must be a reason why the Hulk had not moved from where he had been deposited while Thor was in transit.

character A beats character B beats, character C beats character B, so C beats A. Faulty logic, especially when you're dealing with something so widely inconsistent as comic books.

You're confusing yourself. Character B beats Character C, not Character C (also) beats Character C. Youre misrepresentation of my statement has Thor beating Drax, Hulk beating Drax, and therefore Thor beating Hulk.

What you meant to say is Character A beats character B, Character B beats Character C, therefore Character A beats Character C. This is logic works pretty well in situations where we are discussing toe-to-toe physical fights. So throwing names in, we have Thor beats Drax, Drax beats Hulk, so Thor beats Hulk. ;-)

You could also say that Hulk can physically beat anyone Thor can beat. Or you could say that Thor beating anyone who can physically beat Hulk is PIS. Everything is possible!

Everything is possible if logic is abandoned. But if we use logic, we can see that given the number of Hulk beaters Thor has beaten, it is utter PIS for Hulk to beat Thor. That's why it hasnt happened.

Well, maybe the writer should've thought up a better, more realistic way for Thor to kill Hulk?

Like I said, write a letter to Marvel if you are dissatisfied.

It's only PIS if either character's traits are ignored. The Hulk can be tricked or defeated early on in the battle, with luck and leverage. Lots of luck. He's not invincible. It would however be pissed when Thing kayoes the Hulk in the middle of a fight or when Hulk fails to Kayoe thing when enraged because the writers refuse to spoil the fun of seeing the two collide. Hulk has enought strength to hurt Thor. He's neither invincible nor unkillable. Classic Thor, that is.

Sure, the hulk can hurt Thor. I'm sure the Thing can as well. That doesnt mean the Hulk and Thing can beat Thor. In fact, last time I checked they tried doing it together and both ended up dead. I'm sure they got their licks in though, after all they ambushed Thor who had no hammer, no odin-power, and had just suffered a severe bodily injury.

In case you didn’t notice, the Hulk had been hurling stuff at ANYONE that came even close. He trashed the place. He was knocked against a statue, he was going to use it to smash someone. Big deal. Mindless Hulk also tossed stuff when he wasn’t provoked.

Hulk throws.

They stalemate. But the Hulk proved he was physically superior by knocking the crap out of Thor, making him look bruised and barely able to stand, whereas Hulk still looked fresh.

As I said earlier, in terms of durability and recovery the Hulk is far superior. There is no doubt about this. There are very few injuries the Hulk could not recover from.

As for raw strength, it does seem to be a stalemate but even then it can be shown that Thor wasnt using his full strength. It has been shown that he subconciously holds back when he's around mortals. When its just him and Hercules and no one else they shake planets.

And Hulk didnt knock the crap out of Thor, he couldnt do anything to him until he threw a train at him, ie., he used a large projectile where his fists failed. There was another occasion where the Hulk hurt Thor with his fists but on that occasion he caught Thor by surprise. Thor even had some success against Thanos when he caught him by surprise but head to head we all know what would happen.

The Hulk would've proceeded to kill Thor if he didn't turn around and walk away. He stopped caring about the fight and whether Thor was dead or alive. All he cared about was that the fight was over. But Thor was beaten flat. Hulk wanted him to stay down, but he didn't. Yet he could've made him.

Sure, after he used a large projectile where his fists had failed to have any effect whatsoever. When he was going all out while Thor was constantly adjusting to avoid civilian injuries. It's quite clear what happens when Thor doesnt hold back and is unconcerned with collateral damage.

You were talking about history. Well, history shows that Thor physically killing Hulk isn't all that reasonable. The one arm aspect pushes it over the top.

Really? So the guy who physically beat up characters who would physically beat up the hulk should not be able to physically beat up the hulk?

We know nothing. Except that Thor's particular writer sucks.

Which one? What about writers for other comics where Thor has been shown performing physical feats that are beyond the Hulk?

If Thor can do that, then so can Hulk.

You have it reveresed. Since Hulk, no matter how much time he is given or how angry he is has been unable to defeat Thor in tests of strength despite his larger size and leverage, it is Thor who can perform any act of strength the Hulk can.

Oh funny, Thor can't defeat Hercules, yet Hercules was overpowered by Hulk on several instances. He once beat Herc. to nearly to death.

Nor immortal Hercules.

Also, a clash between Hulk and Ironclad shook countless dimensions of the Crossroads. We never saw that with Thor either.

So now youre saying Ironclad is superior to Thor as well? Are you kidding?

And trust me, Thor holding back against the Hulk in a fistfight is bullcrap. You don't seriously believe that, do you? Maybe in the beginning, but not later. If anything, he was subconscioulsy NOT holding back.

Oh god youre getting sillier by the second. Subconciously NOT holding back?? If Thor wasnt holding back, he would have layed out the Hulk for good with his first punch. It's also been established by Marvel that Thor always holds back when he's around mortals.

Yeah, if only. If we go by one writer, then Firelord is a push over.

Good point. This is why we go by many different writers. The sum of this is that when Thor doesnt hold back, hulk gets smacked around.

You can't be as strong or stronger than Hulk if your strength has a limit. Thor is strong, I know. But for all his might, he couldn't beat the Hulk physically either. That indicates several things:

A: thor can't lifte the Serpent
B: The Hulk can do it if Thor can do it
C: All of Thor's major strength feats are PIS.
D: many more

Anyway, there's realy no telling.

All we can say for sure is that Hulk can increase his strength indefinitely and that Thor is just extremely strong physically.

You are confusing yourself again. Fact is, Thor's strength has a limit and if Hulk cannot exceed or even match that limit (as has been shown throughout Marvel history), then it's apparent that the Hulk's strength has a limit too. This means that he won't be killing Celestials with infinite rage/strength punches any time soon.

Thor defeated Hulk with one arm, yet Thor admitted Hulk was stronger than him and he wondered if there was a limit to his strength. Okay.

As already explained, Thor was marvelling at the Hulk's ability to regain his full strength after taking a beating, not his actual muscle strength. On every occasion where they engaged in a test of strength the Hulk was unable to win no matter how long the contest went on. Marvel has been very consistent on this: Hulk can never defeat Thor in muscle strength.