Originally posted by olympian
Probably. We never saw him reach a point where it could happen. At least that i remember.In that one without Banner he started dying. He was supossely stronger because without the control the anger got him up.
Since he gets stronger because of rage, and i dont see his rage being unlimited, he only has the potential. And thus can be beaten like any other character.
Why would he burn up? There's absolutely no base for that. Nutrient Bath Hulk was an entirely different matter.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
Do you have an issue number for this.
Out of the mind, no. It was the Grey Hulk who stated this when going against Satanish. I know it was PAD who wrote this, and the artist was the one before Dale keown. Jeff Purges! Ill tell you if i remember the issue number, tho.
The Byrne one was in IH #316 and that one i have the scan off hand:
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/1743/avengersih316e2tg.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/4152/avengersih316f0yp.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/8779/avengersih316g5ee.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/2019/avengersih316h2xu.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/1092/avengersih316i7he.jpg
The IM statement about the anger issue, is in the third scan.
To Clarify...
In response to your original argument of the Hulk's "unlimited" durability, please let me give you some actually constructive pointers.
First of all, let me explain the difference between Unlimited and Infinate. Infinate means there is nothing which can surpass it. Infinate durability would mean it is impossible to destroy or even harm the target. Unlimited, however, means it has the potential to eventually reach Infinate. Thus, someone could harm someone with Unlimited durability if they did it before they reach their peak. The Hulk has no limit to his strength and durability, but he is not always at the infinate level .
Thus someone like Superman, who has a higher starting strength and durability level, could defeat the Hulk if they attacked right away. If they waited until the Hulk has been rampaging for days and in a frothing frenzy, it will be much more difficult.
Bear in mind the Hulk has never, ever reached "Infinate" status with his powers. If he had "infinate" strength, he could destroy the universe by clapping. So, he has never had infinate durability - just really, really, really high in both.
Re: To Clarify...
Originally posted by fedorable1
In response to your original argument of the Hulk's "unlimited" durability, please let me give you some actually constructive pointers.First of all, let me explain the difference between Unlimited and Infinate. Infinate means there is nothing which can surpass it. Infinate durability would mean it is impossible to destroy or even harm the target. Unlimited, however, means it has the [B]potential
to eventually reach Infinate. Thus, someone could harm someone with Unlimited durability if they did it before they reach their peak. The Hulk has no limit to his strength and durability, but he is not always at the infinate level .Thus someone like Superman, who has a higher starting strength and durability level, could defeat the Hulk if they attacked right away. If they waited until the Hulk has been rampaging for days and in a frothing frenzy, it will be much more difficult.
Bear in mind the Hulk has never, ever reached "Infinate" status with his powers. If he had "infinate" strength, he could destroy the universe by clapping. So, he has never had infinate durability - just really, really, really high in both. [/B]
agreed, except that it wouldn't take days of rampaging to cause physical difficulties to Superman. Pre-Crisis Superman may take a while, but he was INSANELY powerful.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Why would he burn up? There's absolutely no base for that. Nutrient Bath Hulk was an entirely different matter.
Im not saying IT would. Im saying that when we think that with unlimited strength he should beat anyone in raw strength, we have to understand the why its not like that. The guy has restritments like everyone else.
Rage fuels him. So why doesnt he reach the absolute nirvana? Because like it has been stated on ocassions Banner keeps the guy in control. And at least under some writers, without Banner in him, Hulk its not "whole". They need each other.
Call it plot device, but every character has those. Thats why we never saw Hulk reaching his top of the top of the top, you name it level that some want to use. Like Superman, He-Man, Hercules, Thor and a few others, hes as strong as the writers wants him to be.
And the dying issue i talked about was before the "bath hulk" stuff.
Originally posted by olympian
Out of the mind, no. It was the Grey Hulk who stated this when going against Satanish. I know it was PAD who wrote this, and the artist was the one before Dale keown. Jeff Purges! Ill tell you if i remember the issue number, tho.The Byrne one was in IH #316 and that one i have the scan off hand:
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/1743/avengersih316e2tg.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/4152/avengersih316f0yp.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/8779/avengersih316g5ee.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/2019/avengersih316h2xu.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/1092/avengersih316i7he.jpgThe IM statement about the anger issue, is in the third scan.
True, and at that point he couldn't be stopped by anyone. Until he started to get weaker, which was noted by Doc Samson when Hulk failed to kill him. This was before the fight with the Avengers.
But the unlimited rage doesn't mean that he's always enraged. Nutrient Bath Hulk has had moments of calmness and even brief rational thinking(He ambushed Doc Samson and that news reporter).
Originally posted by olympian
Im not saying IT would. Im saying that when we think that with unlimited strength he should beat anyone in raw strength, we have to understand the why its not like that. The guy has restritments like everyone else.Rage fuels him. So why doesnt he reach the absolute nirvana? Because like it has been stated on ocassions Banner keeps the guy in control. And at least under some writers, without Banner in him, Hulk its not "whole". They need each other.
Call it plot device, but every character has those. Thats why we never saw Hulk reaching his top of the top of the top, you name it level that some want to use. Like Superman, He-Man, Hercules, Thor and a few others, hes as strong as the writers wants him to be.
And the dying issue i talked about was before the "bath hulk" stuff.
Hmm again, intresting, so what is the strongest incantation of Hulk, Bannerless?
Originally posted by olympian
Out of the mind, no. It was the Grey Hulk who stated this when going against Satanish. I know it was PAD who wrote this, and the artist was the one before Dale keown. Jeff Purges! Ill tell you if i remember the issue number, tho.The Byrne one was in IH #316 and that one i have the scan off hand:
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/1743/avengersih316e2tg.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/4152/avengersih316f0yp.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/8779/avengersih316g5ee.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/2019/avengersih316h2xu.jpg
http://img235.echo.cx/img235/1092/avengersih316i7he.jpgThe IM statement about the anger issue, is in the third scan.
Hmm, so thats basicly banner-less Hulk. Bruce puts limitations on Hulk so Hulks anger doesnt go spirling out of control, intresting, this is to include Savage Hulk right?
Originally posted by fedorable1
In response to your original argument of the Hulk's "unlimited" durability, please let me give you some actually constructive pointers.First of all, let me explain the difference between Unlimited and Infinate. Infinate means there is nothing which can surpass it. Infinate durability would mean it is impossible to destroy or even harm the target. Unlimited, however, means it has the [B]potential
to eventually reach Infinate. Thus, someone could harm someone with Unlimited durability if they did it before they reach their peak. The Hulk has no limit to his strength and durability, but he is not always at the infinate level .Thus someone like Superman, who has a higher starting strength and durability level, could defeat the Hulk if they attacked right away. If they waited until the Hulk has been rampaging for days and in a frothing frenzy, it will be much more difficult.
Bear in mind the Hulk has never, ever reached "Infinate" status with his powers. If he had "infinate" strength, he could destroy the universe by clapping. So, he has never had infinate durability - just really, really, really high in both. [/B]
I know the difference between Infinite and Unlimted, But it is impossible to Reach Infinite because where does it start, and it doesnt end.
Also, Hulk has went to insane levels of strength in mere seconds, it wont take him days according to some.
Originally posted by olympian
Im not saying IT would. Im saying that when we think that with unlimited strength he should beat anyone in raw strength, we have to understand the why its not like that. The guy has restritments like everyone else.Rage fuels him. So why doesnt he reach the absolute nirvana? Because like it has been stated on ocassions Banner keeps the guy in control. And at least under some writers, without Banner in him, Hulk its not "whole". They need each other.
Call it plot device, but every character has those. Thats why we never saw Hulk reaching his top of the top of the top, you name it level that some want to use. Like Superman, He-Man, Hercules, Thor and a few others, hes as strong as the writers wants him to be.
And the dying issue i talked about was before the "bath hulk" stuff.
Nobody ever said he's going to beat everyone with unlimited strength. That seems to be a myth around these parts. He's has a good chance of getting beaten by someone who is above him at that moment(durability and strength). But that doesn't mean he should be counted out, as the speed at which his anger rises ALSO increase when failure lurks around the corner. This can skyrocket him(depending on the situation) to unknown heights. The restrictions you're talkinga bout are very workable in the context of a scipt. It keeps him from being completely unbeatable all the time. He is, after all, still something of a protagonist.
Banner is the one who keeps Hulk from being mindless. Mindlessness(hyperbole, obviously) is not the same thing as rage. We saw what a mindless Hulk is like(twice, even) and even he has moments of calmness. During the crossroad sage, for instance, Mindless Hulk was shown to be ruthless towards anybody, but he also showed emotions like love and grief. He's simply not angry all the time, just more often and easier. But Savage Hulk has one major advantage over the completely mindless incarnations: he has desires. A combination of low intellectual intelligence, intense anger, strong desire(to be the strongest) and possibly frustration can amp him to heights that other Hulks can't archieve. This is ofcourse, a theory. I won't pretend that it's more than that. But it makes sense. It also explains why many people still consider classic Savage the one with the most efficient rage capacity.
And ofcourse, he is as strong as the writers want him to be. That goes for everybody. The thing about Hulk is that it can always be explained. And I personally think that, although it can get a little "devicey" at times, it's a rather plausible explanation.
Originally posted by olympian
He couldnt be stopped by anyone? Dont you feel its a bit of scretch? Those two Avengers team wer majoritily composed of streeth and mid level guys. There was no Thor there, no Surfer, no Scarlet Witch, no Doc Strange among probably others more obscure.
Anyone in that comic.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Nobody ever said he's going to beat everyone with unlimited strength. That seems to be a myth around these parts. He's has a good chance of getting beaten by someone who is above him at that moment(durability and strength). But that doesn't mean he should be counted out, as the speed at which his anger rises ALSO increase when failure lurks around the corner. This can skyrocket him(depending on the situation) to unknown heights. The restrictions you're talkinga bout are very workable in the context of a scipt. It keeps him from being completely unbeatable all the time. He is, after all, still something of a protagonist.Banner is the one who keeps Hulk from being mindless. Mindlessness(hyperbole, obviously) is not the same thing as rage. We saw what a mindless Hulk is like(twice, even) and even he has moments of calmness. During the crossroad sage, for instance, Mindless Hulk was shown to be ruthless towards anybody, but he also showed emotions like love and grief. He's simply not angry all the time, just more often and easier. But Savage Hulk has one major advantage over the completely mindless incarnations: he has desires. A combination of low intellectual intelligence, intense anger, strong desire(to be the strongest) and possibly frustration can amp him to heights that other Hulks can't archieve. This is ofcourse, a theory. I won't pretend that it's more than that. But it makes sense. It also explains why many people still consider classic Savage the one with the most efficient rage capacity.
And ofcourse, he is as strong as the writers want him to be. That goes for everybody. The thing about Hulk is that it can always be explained. And I personally think that, although it can get a little "devicey" at times, it's a rather plausible explanation.
Threoy Huh?
