Semptember the 11th

Started by Emperor Ashtar98 pages
Originally posted by jaden101
but there were also these "squibs" witnessed many minutes before collapse...and even as the plane was impacting....if they were explosives deigned to cause collapse they wouldn't have been timed to go of randomly or placed throughout the building in random locations

Your just helping my argument the more you post evidence of squibs prior to the impact. Because what could be causiing those squibs?

Originally posted by jaden101

obviously it was enough time...but they weren't thermite reactions as it take 0.13 lbs of thermite to heat 1lb of steel not to melting point but to 700c (a critical weaking temperature)...therefor it was calculated that several thousand lbs of thermite would have been needed to heat enough steel to the weakening point...so the building would have been pouring out molten metal

Their was molten steel reported various places, including the sub basement.

Originally posted by jaden101

it was observed in one location....the fact that is is the most filmed event of our time yet was only captured in one point on the building and the fact that out of 9000 eye witness testimonies it was only observed at that one point....and no...i'm not saying it was thermite...although i missed out my second " i'm sure someone of your apparent intelligence would have reasoned the irony of its use

Did you ever think maybe, the thermite would mostly pour at the interior of the tower instead of the exterior?

Originally posted by jaden101

so here's a list of its other uses...

* Blackboard chalk
* Cement
* Drywall
* Plaster, a construction material
* Dental modes
* Surgical casts
* Paint filler
* Toothpaste
* Gesso
* Molds for Casting metals
* Agricultural soil amendment
* Solidifying earth (cast earth construction)
* Tofu coagulation
* Improving mineral content of brewing water
* Dietary calcium additives in breads and cereals
* Pharmaceuticals
* Dessicant - anhydrous calcium sulfate (anhydrite) is sold under the brand name Drierite
* Burtonisation

the 2nd, 3rd and 4th uses obviously bearing the most significance

Why Believe in Superthermate at WTC?


One molecule, described by the EPA's Erik Swartz, was present at levels "that dwarfed all others": 1,3-diphenylpropane. "We've never observed it in any sampling we've ever done,"

1,3-diphenylpropane is a by-product of Aerogel...

So, why would the EPA find 1,3-diphenylpropane in levels that "dwarfed all others" and never have observed it in any testing previous to 9/11

Let me tell you something though, jaden. I don't support the thermite theory. Like I told others before I belive a mininuke was involved.

I'll point out four things on this theory, since I'm not the only that believe's it:

Consistently yellow-hot yet still rigid steel/iron. Thermite or HE's could not do this. Other possibilities?

Streets and parking lots full of scorched cars. At least one car was also flipped. The dust clouds were reported as hot.

Trails of dust following solid ejected debris. Concrete breaking up mid-fall from no applied force? Concrete/steel on fire, smoking as it falls? Hydrocarbon material burning as it falls, producing thick white smoke with no visible flame? Sublimation? Is there any relation to this?

And remember all the microscopic particles of steel and aluminum and iron, or whatever the metals were, found in high amounts in the air at Ground Zero? How does that come to be? Thermite is one possibility.

Ground Zero civilian medic and corporate whistleblower Indira Singh reports ulceric sores, hair loss, cancer in clean-up crews at GZ:

BF: At one point, I noticed that you testified as to your physical symptoms and how this had affected your health. What did happen to you, just on a physical level?

IS:It’s an interesting question because I was in excellent physical condition for my age and gender and I was training for an 8,000m mountain climb, so aerobically I knew I could be up at 19 – 20,000 feet, no oxygen, doing a fair amount of aerobic activity… what happened to me is—what happened to all of us basically, and it doesn’t sound very nice, but this is what happened—we had sores—some Firefighters I know still have these horrific sores all over their body, our hair fell out, eye infections, shortness of breath, Adult-onset Asthma, chronic coughs, tiredness, extreme fatigue, cardiac symptoms, heart palpitations where you never had any before, irritability, a lot of symptoms that were consistent with neurotoxic poisoning, those were just the physical symptoms, and in some cases people reported that their hair fell out and even their dental work fell out.

And to me they were consistent with signs of radiation poisoning. However, the toxic cocktail that had been burning there… I think a California group went in and analyzed and pretty much came up with the determination that there were about 900 contaminants, 200 different kinds of dioxins, we had the particulate matter the asbestos, the concrete, they had said that particles were ground so fine that they were the smallest particles ever produced in history. And they blew past all our barriers and got lodged right in our lungs and most of us who were exposed to that are suffering from something called reactive airway disease syndrome, which is something that the coalminers get


geiger counters apparently being disallowed for two or three days after the collapses at Ground Zero, with emphasis on the fact that radiation levels die down rapidly. High-efficiency bombs would also leave behind less critical mass to provide radiation; only certain kinds of radiation would likely escape the building structure anyway with any smaller bomb: alpha radiation, for example, can hardly penetrate your clothes. The bombs dropped on Japan made use of ~1% of their critical masses, throwing the rest of the kilograms of pure uranium/plutonium all over the bombed region, accounting for much radioactivity no doubt. Again, those were dirty, primitive bombs. What hasn't advanced by leaps and bounds in the past 60 years, through the Cold War and all, at least in terms of military technology?

I've also read of (from some military vet on the OKC bombing, but don't have the sources or any technical jargon ready) the property of nuclear detonations to utter destroy concrete, whether it is something to do with the lower density of the material itself or what.

I don't know, but this could explain why the concrete was all microscopic dust while seel and even paper was left intact; it wasn't brute force that destroyed the concrete and left so much paper intact, was it? In some "terrorist" blasts in the Mid-East, you'll see concrete blown into the same microscopic dust seen at Ground Zero, with the rebar left behind perfectly intact!

These are just things from my current understanding of the situation and nuke detonations. Certainly not all questions are answered and a discussion would be nice, but maybe there are a few things we can actually consider while we're at it.

Nothing better than a little "show and tell".
I'm adding a second view of those "roasted" cars...

And here is a view of lower Manhatten. It takes enormous amounts of energy to make clouds like that. No one -- as far as I can tell -- has yet dared to offer a reasonably precise calculation of the kilojoules necessary for such a duststorm to occur. All the estimates I've been able to find are so vague and full of disclamers that they're simply not worth mentioning.

Conventional explosives could have supplied the same amount of raw energy as hydrogen bombs but they would have been much "noisier" and much more "visible". Nuclear explosions are quiet and invisble RELATIVE to the amount of energy released.

Here's more Evidence to support my theory, Here's a document explaining the united sates government creating nukes for Demolition

WTC AfterMath

Chernybol Aftermath

Here's more

i think its quite likely its both were used, as the Finnish military expert explains.

well as far as normal explosives go there isn't much other way to explain the pulverisation of concrete on the scale of 30 microns and less. It doesn't make sense.


Jerry Russell estimated that the amount of energy required to crush concrete to 60 micron powder is about 1.5 KWH/ton

6,00,000 khw = 6,000,000 kg of tnt = Nuclear fission equals 70 kt TNT per kg

There is no way the massive energy sink could possibly be due to TNT being planted in the building due to the need of 6 million kg of TNT.
A 0.6kg nuke would do the job easily.

Just in case some of you haven't had time to review the Finnish “military expert’s” websites postulating the use of hydrogen bombs on 9-11 at the WTC's — here is one of the more tell-tailing pictures.

Your just helping my argument the more you post evidence of squibs prior to the impact. Because what could be causiing those squibs?

i didn't say prior to impact though did i?

Their was molten steel reported various places, including the sub basement.

thermite isn't molten steel though is it?...it may produce molten steel if in contact for long enough...but as i stated before...just to have enough thermite reaction to weaken the steel would need thousands of lbs of thermite....it would need far in excess of this in order to make the steel molten...and there is no way that much could be shipped, stored and planted around the building inconspicuously....

Did you ever think maybe, the thermite would mostly pour at the interior of the tower instead of the exterior?

if it was planted at the exterior columns and was to cut through them...then why wasn't it observed either by people on the outside looking in...or vice versa...in many different areas throughout the building?

Chernybol Aftermath

i'm failing to understand the connection with chernobyl...this primary explosion which caused the damage their was rapid steam expansion after coming into contact with the core...a mininuke wouldn't work that way

also...the electromagetic pulse generated by even a mininuke would have disabled many of the video equiptment, both professional and amatuer...seeing as the attacks are arguably the most recorded events in the history of the world yet no accounts supporting an EMP have ever been heard

even other conspiracy theory web sites totally denounce the idea

while your post inidcates that alpha radiation wouldn't escape the rubble because of its lack of penetrating power....it doesn't mention that gamma and x-ray radiation are high energy and easily penetrate steel, concrete and rock...as is noticible by the fact that the recent underground north korean test was detected despite being under many feet of solid mass...(which is not what the wreckage of the towers was)

your theory also has the need for 10,000 conventional cutter charges...which would have taken months to plant and would have involved very invasive proceedures that would disrupt workers in the building...yet no reports of any kind have emerged to support that...

a mini nuke in the basement would have resulted in large ejection of matter from the lower floors of the building before the collapsing top floors reached that point...which goes against all eye witness testimony...and video evidence

as for the dust clouds...i've been to witness several demolitions of far smaller buildings...they had already been stripped and prepared by removing all plaster board walls, windows, stair wells, lift shafts...pretty much anything that could be removed

they still generated massive dust clouds that swept across almost 10 miles of city...

so as for what a unprepped building could do...particularly as it doesnt require alot of energy to turn plaster board to dust

Originally posted by jaden101
i didn't say prior to impact though did i?

Okay, there were squibs that appeared a little early what's your point?

Originally posted by jaden101

thermite isn't molten steel though is it?...it may produce molten steel if in contact for long enough...but as i stated before...just to have enough thermite reaction to weaken the steel would need thousands of lbs of thermite....it would need far in excess of this in order to make the steel molten...and there is no way that much could be shipped, stored and planted around the building inconspicuously....

People were not as observent pre 911 as they are now.

Originally posted by jaden101

if it was planted at the exterior columns and was to cut through them...then why wasn't it observed either by people on the outside looking in...or vice versa...in many different areas throughout the building?

Maybe it's because they were running for their lives, lol.
there were girders found cut at 45 degree angles

Originally posted by jaden101

i'm failing to understand the connection with chernobyl...this primary explosion which caused the damage their was rapid steam expansion after coming into contact with the core...a mininuke wouldn't work that way

How would it work, explain please. Have you witnessesed or have any knowledge on nuclear devices use for demolition?

Originally posted by jaden101

also...the electromagetic pulse generated by even a mininuke would have disabled many of the video equiptment, both professional and amatuer...seeing as the attacks are arguably the most recorded events in the history of the world yet no accounts supporting an EMP have ever been heard

EMP would of been extremely minimal if these devices were detonated deep underground, they need to be detonated in the atmosphere to create wide spread damage

EMPs can be neutralized with enough insulation. Anything that conducts electrical current (steel, aluminum, concrete, even the Earth itself; potentially anything with enough voltage, which is also surged in an EMP) can provide insulation from these things, just like a Faraday cage would, and weaken them. With low yields, the EMP pulse is also weaker to begin with.

Depending on the depth there could of been no EMP what so ever, still there were reports of power outages, perhap this is because EMP interfered with sub terrainial electronics only (major power cables etc).

Originally posted by jaden101

even other conspiracy theory web sites totally denounce the idea

Not my problem

Originally posted by jaden101

while your post inidcates that alpha radiation wouldn't escape the rubble because of its lack of penetrating power....it doesn't mention that gamma and x-ray radiation are high energy and easily penetrate steel, concrete and rock...as is noticible by the fact that the recent underground north korean test was detected despite being under many feet of solid mass...(which is not what the wreckage of the towers was)

Don't you think many radioactives would be hard to detect since they would of been buried under the rubble of an 110 story skyscraper? Also I read that hydrogen bombs leave different radiation to atomic bombs and that gieger counters cannot detect it easily. H-bomb fallout is dealt with by high pressure water spraying which is what happened for the next 100 days at ground zero. There are over 20 strong points that correlate with the usage of some type of thermonuclear device in this short video clip:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3211807290597119388

Originally posted by jaden101

your theory also has the need for 10,000 conventional cutter charges...which would have taken months to plant and would have involved very invasive proceedures that would disrupt workers in the building...yet no reports of any kind have emerged to support that...)

Please, barring witness testimony is simple, many people were even barred testifying eye witness accounts post 911.

Also, people were not as alert pre 911.

Originally posted by jaden101

a mini nuke in the basement would have resulted in large ejection of matter from the lower floors of the building before the collapsing top floors reached that point...which goes against all eye witness testimony...and video evidence

Not really, remember the report I mentioned about the sub basement taking dmagae before the plane impact?

Also in the basement was all the melted metal that lasted for days. What was the status of radioactivity in the area?

Okay, there were squibs that appeared a little early what's your point?

my point is that you dont destroy a building by setting off explosives at random times on random floors

People were not as observent pre 911 as they are now.

you really dont have to be particularly observant to notice someone removing the wall coverings and drilling into hundreds of steel supports....slotting in explosives and rigging up wires...

Maybe it's because they were running for their lives,

if everyone was running for their lives...there wouldn't be any footage of the collapse would there?

there were girders found cut at 45 degree angles

and thermite only cuts straight down...

How would it work, explain please. Have you witnessesed or have any knowledge on nuclear devices use for demolition?

funnily enough i dont...because they've NEVER been used as a demolition tool have they...

EMP would of been extremely minimal if these devices were detonated deep underground, they need to be detonated in the atmosphere to create wide spread damage

the effects of any nuke generated emp are high in the vicinity and considering some people were merely 10's of feet away yet their electronic devices were not effected at all

i really dont know where many of the observations in your video are supported..."large pyroclastic flows with chimneys rising upward

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFtzTQKRspY

it goes down...the only thing rising is the smoke from the fire burning before collapse

Also in the basement was all the melted metal that lasted for days. What was the status of radioactivity in the area?

exactly...what was it...you claim contradicting testimonies....geiger counters were "apparently" banned...yet some people claim radiation readings

Please, barring witness testimony is simple, many people were even barred testifying eye witness accounts post 911.

10's of thousands of people worked in those towers...yet no-one...NO-ONE has come forward to say there were workman carrying out any kind of invasive and ongoing work...suspicious or otherwise

and to think that the government has the ability to silence all these people is just naive....as history has proven time and time again in relation to people who have spoken out about the illegal actions of their governments

Not really, remember the report I mentioned about the sub basement taking dmagae before the plane impact?

so the nuke went off before the planes even hit?

and yet a government who can keep all this a secret cant even get people to time their explosives correctly....mmmm

Originally posted by jaden101
my point is that you dont destroy a building by setting off explosives at random times on random floors

The squibs were not random, yes, they went at random spots in the building but the order was a descending.

Originally posted by jaden101

you really dont have to be particularly observant to notice someone removing the wall coverings and drilling into hundreds of steel supports....slotting in explosives and rigging up wires...

Okay, and your point, How hard would it be to have an undocumented "Faux Construction" to get these bombs installed. Have you lived in new york before, because I have, and let me tell you. New yorkers are not that observant, especially in manhattan. No, ones going to play nancy Drew and investigate people wiring things on walls.

Originally posted by jaden101

if everyone was running for their lives...there wouldn't be any footage of the collapse would there?

No, but, your expecting there to be hudreds of footage of thermite, please.

Originally posted by jaden101

and thermite only cuts straight down...

Did you read what I said about the sulphuric mix, and the large amounts of sulfur resudue

Originally posted by jaden101

funnily enough i dont...because they've NEVER been used as a demolition tool have they...

Despite the fact I gave you a link with an article concerning this, not to observant are we. I doubt you'd notice bombs as well.

Originally posted by jaden101

the effects of any nuke generated emp are high in the vicinity and considering some people were merely 10's of feet away yet their electronic devices were not effected at all

Yes, they were, I just posted information regarding black outs, do you read what I post?

i really dont know where many of the observations in your video are supported..."large pyroclastic flows with chimneys rising upward

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFtzTQKRspY

it goes down...the only thing rising is the smoke from the fire burning before collapse

Originally posted by jaden101

exactly...what was it...you claim contradicting testimonies....geiger counters were "apparently" banned...yet some people claim radiation readings

Where did I say Geiger counter were banned?

Originally posted by jaden101

10's of thousands of people worked in those towers...yet no-one...NO-ONE has come forward to say there were workman carrying out any kind of invasive and ongoing work...suspicious or otherwise

and to think that the government has the ability to silence all these people is just naive....as history has proven time and time again in relation to people who have spoken out about the illegal actions of their governments

The government doesn't have to silence them,They could simply be afraid or never noticed. Again, No is nancy drew. there's constructin all the time in manhattan, you think all those commuters who travel hours each day to work in the city are gonna give a damn about some construction, please.

Originally posted by jaden101

so the nuke went off before the planes even hit?

and yet a government who can keep all this a secret cant even get people to time their explosives correctly....mmmm

Secret, read the thread, 84% reject the official story. What secret please, I just posted a diagram indicating what I believe I.E. multiple explosives were used which explained why the core disentagrated.

Okay, and your point, How hard would it be to have an undocumented "Faux Construction" to get these bombs installed. Have you lived in new york before, because I have, and let me tell you. New yorkers are not that observant, especially in manhattan. No, ones going to play nancy Drew and investigate people wiring things on walls.

its not a matter of sticking wires in walls though...its a matter of removing the wall coverings in the middle of offices to get access to the support structure....drilling into every one....wiring up thousands of charges to a single detonator....without raising any suspicions...without any documentation of the work being carried out...and without anyone mentioning any suspicious after the fact

No, but, your expecting there to be hudreds of footage of thermite, please.

like i said...it is the most filmed event in history...i would expect a lot more than 1 piece of footage to show the alleged thermite reaction

Did you read what I said about the sulphuric mix, and the large amounts of sulfur resudue

yes i did read it...and i also stated actual sources for large amounts of sulpher in the building

Where did I say Geiger counter were banned?
geiger counters apparently being disallowed for two or three days after the collapses at Ground Zero, with emphasis on the fact that radiation levels die down rapidly.

if you aren going to bother reading what you post then why should i?

The government doesn't have to silence them,They could simply be afraid or never noticed. Again, No is nancy drew. there's constructin all the time in manhattan, you think all those commuters who travel hours each day to work in the city are gonna give a damn about some construction, please.

are you telling me that if you work in a office you aren't going to notice someone coming in a drilling holes every few metres around you...be serious....

Secret, read the thread, 84% reject the official story.

if the government was popular now and everything was going well in Iraq and the economy was booming (all allegedly unrelated things to 9/11) then do you really think the poll outcome would be the same?

most likely not

Originally posted by jaden101
its not a matter of sticking wires in walls though...its a matter of removing the wall coverings in the middle of offices to get access to the support structure....drilling into every one....wiring up thousands of charges to a single detonator....without raising any suspicions...without any documentation of the work being carried out...and without anyone mentioning any suspicious after the fact

Again, have you lived in new york, since when has construction raised suspicion?

Originally posted by jaden101

like i said...it is the most filmed event in history...i would expect a lot more than 1 piece of footage to show the alleged thermite reaction

The most filmed event, since when?

Originally posted by jaden101

yes i did read it...and i also stated actual sources for large amounts of sulpher in the building

Those items you listed contain calcium sulphat not sulphur really. Also, your ignoring the amount of sulphur found and it's chemical bond

Originally posted by jaden101

if you aren going to bother reading what you post then why should i?

Where does it say banned?

Originally posted by jaden101

are you telling me that if you work in a office you aren't going to notice someone coming in a drilling holes every few metres around you...be serious....

Have you been to New York?

Originally posted by jaden101

if the government was popular now and everything was going well in Iraq and the economy was booming (all allegedly unrelated things to 9/11) then do you really think the poll outcome would be the same?

most likely not

The economy has actually recovered, have you watched the news?

Here's more thermite

Girders cut, and more thermite

Originally posted by grey fox
What truth ? The truth that most people are too damn ignorant and stupid to understand the basic facts of what happened and believe that SOMEHOW an entire government was able to commit the largest terrorist operation in history--with military precision no less.

Not taking into account the ..well let the image explain .

This is the stupidest question known to man, the answer is sooo obvious. I'll even give a hint, it starts with an m, and you can buy stuff with it.

Again, have you lived in new york, since when has construction raised suspicion?

yes i've been to new york...and no...its not actually construction is it?

it really doesn't matter where in the world you are...if you're sitting at your desk and someone starts drilling holes right next to you...you are going to notice...especially if there is no apparent reason for it

The most filmed event, since when?
one of the most recorded events in history.

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-08/2006-08-17-voa48.cfm
can you name any other single event with as much footage from so many different news and other tv stations from all over the world?

Where does it say banned?

stop being pedantic

The economy has actually recovered, have you watched the news?

not without massively increasing the budget deficit it hasn't...not to mention the US being in the middle of a rather big housing crash at the moment

I'll say one thing.....I've always wondered why more people (other than Bill Maher) have not questioned why Bush just sat there for 7 MINUTES after he was told AMERICA IS UNDER ATTACK!!!! I guess reading "My Pet Goat" to 2nd Graders was more important!!!

As to Ashtar, yes, Plastic Explosives can take a bullet, but when there is Jet Fuel and an explosion going on, C4 won't hold up, it is not that stable.

And to Bush sitting there for 7 minutes, if you cared to look at his face, it was horrified, and he didn't want to scare the teacher and a bunch of kiddies

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
This is the stupidest question known to man, the answer is sooo obvious. I'll even give a hint, it starts with an m, and you can buy stuff with it.

Oh yea, like Money is going to pay off several Thousand people, it might work for a few, but out of a Thousand, I'd guess somewhere between 20-100 people would talk, you can't keep people quiet, this operation would require cooperation between several thousand people, not to mention most would have to be low-rank Military personal, witnesses, technicians, etc etc. You don't understand people, you base your Human Psychology off of movies

Tut.....it was a terrorist attack for crying out loud!!!

Why must people always have to look for another story??

it was a terrorist attack alright but the REAL terrorists are George Bush,Dick Chaney,Rumsfield,Colin Powell,Condollaza Rice and others.They dont look for another story,the story comes to them.The reason there is a controversey is the facts of the case dont fit the explanation given by the government.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
This is the stupidest question known to man, the answer is sooo obvious. I'll even give a hint, it starts with an m, and you can buy stuff with it.

Boy it sure is.I also already addressed this issue on page 8 of this thread that there indeed were whistle blowers that came forward trying to warn Bush,John Ashcroft and NORAD that they had information there would be terrorist attacks against the towers but they didnt want to hear nothing of it and that their superiours at NORAD told them to stand down that day.already been addressed,go back to page 8 for the answer.dont want to go over it again.they can also do a google search on this lady named sybil who was a high ranking government official that had foreknowledge of it and since then has been threatend with silence by going to google and type in sybil-911 and all kinds of information will pop up about how her warnings were ignored.But people here will ignore that and defend the official version no matter how ludicrise it is.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
One molecule, described by the EPA's Erik Swartz, was present at levels "that dwarfed all others": 1,3-diphenylpropane. "We've never observed it in any sampling we've ever done,"

1,3-diphenylpropane is a by-product of Aerogel...

So, why would the EPA find 1,3-diphenylpropane in levels that "dwarfed all others" and never have observed it in any testing previous to 9/11

The full quote: "One molecule, described by the EPA's Erik Swartz, was present at levels "that dwarfed all others": 1,3-diphenylpropane. "We've never observed it in any sampling we've ever done," Swartz said. He said it was most likely produced by the plastic of tens of thousands of burning computers."

Oops. Try again.

uhh dude,this discussion ended two weeks ago. 🙄