Vader ESB vs Sidious TPM

Hmm, what do you think?

Considering TPM Sidious would be in the prime of his saber abilities, not to mention his ever growing knowledge of the force, I'd say he takes this virtually every time.

"Considering TPM Sidious would be in the prime of his saber abilities.." Proof?

I'd say DE Sidious was in the prime of his saber abilites,judging from what Ive read in the Dark Empire Sourcebook.

I'm talking about in universe Spartan. As stated by somebody, TPM Sidious was fast enough with a saber to carve out an etching of Maul without killing him, so I'd say he's at his peak in saber abilities. DE Sidious was just young and agile, nothing more. Not to mention he's been a spirit for all those years. TPM Sidious still practiced with a saber, until he became chancellor.

"As stated by somebody"WTF?Just because it's 'stated by somebody' doesn't make it canon,unless GL or LF says otherwise.

And where did Sidious carve an etching into Maul?Even if he did,that doesn't make any sense because,by your logic,an artist that is perfect at carving, is a skilled swordsman aswell?Which is,obviouly,very flawed logic on your part.

And DE Sidious wasn't "Young and Impressionable'.When he and Luke dueled over Pinnacle Base,they were described,by the DE Sourcebook, as "Moving faster than the eye could see.",and were also described as tearing up Sids throne room in the duel aswell.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
"As stated by somebody"WTF?Just because it's 'stated by somebody' doesn't make it canon,unless GL or LF says otherwise.

Uh it was stated by somebody quoting the TPM novelization or pre TPM, it's not just somebody's word. Don't be daft.

And where did Sidious carve an etching into Maul?Even if he did,that doesn't make any sense because,by your logic,an artist that is perfect at carving, is a skilled swordsman aswell?Which is,obviouly,very flawed logic on your part.

Either in TPM or pre TPM books, I will get you the source if you want. Your analogy doesn't work because Sidious bested Maul in saber combat. And this was BEFORE he put his saber down for 13 years. The same Sidious that took out 3 Jedi Masters before losing to Windu. My point was to demonstrate his speed and precision with a lightsaber, which I did.

And DE Sidious wasn't "Young and Impressionable'.When he and Luke dueled over Pinnacle Base,they were described,by the DE Sourcebook, as "Moving faster than the eye could see.",and were also described as tearing up Sids throne room in the duel aswell.

Once again, when is the last time Sidious picked up a saber? Oh wait, he was a spirit roaming the galaxy after he fell into the shaft.

Spartan, I was the one who provided DS with the information regarding Palpatine's lightsaber abilities as of TPM. He outlined Maul's figure with a lightsaber - while Maul was standing there. Maul later noted that if he had moved an inch or so, he would have died.

That takes skill and precision.

Anyways, ESB Vader dies. Horribly.

Originally posted by Escape81
ESB Vader dies. Horribly.

Originally posted by Escape81
ESB Vader dies. Horribly.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
[B]Uh it was stated by somebody quoting the TPM novelization or pre TPM, it's not just somebody's word. Don't be daft.

Either in TPM or pre TPM books, I will get you the source if you want. Your analogy doesn't work because Sidious bested Maul in saber combat. And this was BEFORE he put his saber down for 13 years. The same Sidious that took out 3 Jedi Masters before losing to Windu. My point was to demonstrate his speed and precision with a lightsaber, which I did.

Once again, when is the last time Sidious picked up a saber? Oh wait, he was a spirit roaming the galaxy after he fell into the shaft.

But I do agree,that Sidious wins.

Maul outmatched Vader in swordsmanship. Vader won because Maul was overconfident. Vader stabbed himself through the stomach to kill Maul. You could say Vader killed himself, but he got medical treatment shortly after thus he survived....

We don't know enough about TPM Sidious. His lightsaber skills and force powers have shown us nothing beyond Vader, and too much is speculation. Hopefully the Plageius novel, due in '08, will clear this up. I give unofficial permission for someone to dig this thread from the grave then.

OT Vader is 80% of OT Sidious and TPM Sidious is rpobably as strong as OT Sidious, not as strong with the Force but betetr with a saber so I don't see any way that Vader would win.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
We don't know enough about TPM Sidious. His lightsaber skills and force powers have shown us nothing beyond Vader, and too much is speculation. Hopefully the Plageius novel, due in '08, will clear this up. I give unofficial permission for someone to dig this thread from the grave then.

Actually, we know that he was still using a saber back then, training Maul and defeating Maul. We know he barely stalemated Yoda with 13 years out of practice, so its more than logical to say TPM Sidious was at his peak in saber abilities, meaning Vader stands no chance.

I stand by what I said.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
I stand by what I said.

I'm glad youre bringing logic into this one and not your own opinion. I'll reiterate the fact that TPM Sidious was at his peak, as it is the last time he uses his saber. It is arguable that DE Sidious COULD be at his peak but it's unrealistic considering of the fact that he was a spirit, and just had a younger and more agile body.

You're basing it off of speculation, I'm not going to call a winner until I know more about TPM Sidious.

What do you mean I'm basing it off of speculation. Ask escape to provide the quotes for you the ability of Sidious as of TPM, who defeated Maul in combat several times, before putting the saber away for 13 years as a chancellor.. Hardly speculation.

Yes, but until we know more I can say that Vader just beats the hell out of him with the force, though. We don't know, so I'm not going to assume. You, by all means, can, though, and it won't bother me.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Yes, but until we know more I can say that Vader just beats the hell out of him with the force, though. We don't know, so I'm not going to assume. You, by all means, can, though, and it won't bother me.

What are we assuming here? What are you NOT understanding? Sidious was actively training Maul before and during TPM ok? Sidious was NOT doing anything while a Chancellor. What is so hard to understand?