Paying someone to burn a CD off the internet.....

Originally posted by bigbran
So you wouldn't download a song, if you couldn't get it anywhere?
So you would just sit there, and know that you will never hear your favorite song again?

I will never be in a position where I cannot own my favourite songs, so your hypothetical is of no use to me.

I've paid over £45 for an album that was simply not available, out of print. I could have downloaded it for free, but I didn't because I like owning the CD, the artwork. I like hearing the music as the artist intended it to be heard upon releasing it.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
well, here we go again with the insults. you know, you seem like an intelligent and well spoken person. if you could just keep the insults to yourself, i'd enjoy talking to you.
but, unfortunately, you choose to lower yourself to sub par standards and call me a fool or whatever else you can think of. so, if everyone who burns music is a fool or theiving scum, there are alot of us in the world.
i dont answer the shoplifting question because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

It does have things to do with the topic. You justified downloading by saying people may not have the money for CDs due to low income, correct?

So you condone stealing when someone has low income? I can only assume the same applies to shoplifting. Does it? It's a simple yes or no. You have typed thousands of words in the time you could have responded.

Answer the question, please. I respect that either way, you know I've trapped your pathetic argument, but answer it. Be a man.

-AC

AC, how do you feel about downloading music from an artist that is deceased? Would you still be against it even if you knew the money spent would end up in some one's undeserved pocket?

Originally posted by §P0oONY
AC, how do you feel about downloading music from an artist that is deceased? Would you still be against it even if you knew the money spent would end up in some one's undeserved pocket?

In that case, the debate becomes moral, in which case I cannot speak for any reason other than personal belief.

I personally believe it's more disrespectful to steal someone's art when they're dead.

-AC

Nice answer.

What about if the artist really didn't care about the money before they died and just wanted their music heard?

Originally posted by §P0oONY
AC, how do you feel about downloading music from an artist that is deceased? Would you still be against it even if you knew the money spent would end up in some one's undeserved pocket?

I know that that question was directed at AC, but I had to ask.

Why the hell would that matter???

Now you're not only stealing, but you're stealing from the deceased!

Originally posted by §P0oONY
Nice answer.

What about if the artist really didn't care about the money before they died and just wanted their music heard?

I will always buy my music regardless. However, if an artist openly says they do not care about THEIR music being downloaded, then that is up to them. They simply have no right to complain afterwards.

I would still buy it, but I wouldn't be as quick to tell someone not to. I would be more suggestive about it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It does have things to do with the topic. You justified downloading by saying people may not have the money for CDs due to low income, correct?

So you condone stealing when someone has low income? I can only assume the same applies to shoplifting. Does it? It's a simple yes or no. You have typed thousands of words in the time you could have responded.

Answer the question, please. I respect that either way, you know I've trapped your pathetic argument, but answer it. Be a man.

-AC

Originally posted by CherryPop
I know that that question was directed at AC, but I had to ask.

Why the hell would that matter???

Now you're not only stealing, but you're stealing from the deceased!

I'm just interested to see what people's views are in different scenarios.

When has downloaded music, ever affected the amount of records sold?
They still make their millions, while people with harder jobs get minimum wage.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
be a man? come on, are you really asking me to be a man? come on. i never questioned your manhood. and if you feel the need to question mine, i really feel that you have sunk to a new low.
this is your pathetic argument, not mine. you started the drama, not me.

I'm asking you civilly to answer my question, please. I've done so before, I'll do so again.

Answer my post, it won't take long. In all the time you've spent dodging it, you could have answered it and been done with it. You're only proving my point.

"You justified downloading by saying people may not have the money for CDs due to low income, correct?

So you condone stealing when someone has low income? I can only assume the same applies to shoplifting. Does it? It's a simple yes or no. You have typed thousands of words in the time you could have responded."

There. Please answer that.

-AC

Originally posted by bigbran
When has downloaded music, ever affected the amount of records sold?
They still make their millions, while people with harder jobs get minimum wage.

It's not a matter of affecting record sales, it's a matter of not stealing art from people. It does affect record sales, even if that isn't noticeable to the untrained eye.

-AC

Originally posted by bigbran
When has downloaded music, ever affected the amount of records sold?
They still make their millions, while people with harder jobs get minimum wage.

They have, there has been a huge decline in records sold over the years.

You know how many people would love having a million dollars?
While greedy musicians, just want more and more money, and when they go bankrupt, they blame everyone else.

Originally posted by bigbran
You know how many people would love having a million dollars?
While greedy musicians, just want more and more money, and when they go bankrupt, they blame everyone else.

That's factually untrue. Do you know how little musicians make on their CDs? That's what they put the most work in on, and ironically, they make the least from.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's factually untrue. Do you know how little musicians make on their CDs? That's what they put the most work in on, and ironically, they make the least from.

-AC

Originally posted by bigbran
Yes 100's of thousands is not that much at all.

Here's a little something showing the in and out of what things cost for say, an average band, and how much they earn back from their CDs.

Advance: $250,000.
Manager's Cut: $37,500.
Legal fees: $10,000.
Recording Budget: $150,000.
Producer's advance: $50,000.
Studio fee: $ 52,500
Drum Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $ 3,000
Recording tape: $ 8,000
Equipment rental: $ 5,000
Cartage and Transportation: $ 5,000
Lodgings while in studio: $ 10,000
Catering: $ 3,000
Mastering: $ 10,000
Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc. expenses: $ 2,000
Video budget: $ 30,000
Cameras: $ 8,000
Crew: $ 5,000
Processing and transfers: $ 3,000
Off-line: $ 2,000
On-line editing: $ 3,000
Catering: $ 1,000
Stage and construction: $ 3,000
Copies, couriers, transportation: $ 2,000
Director's fee: $ 3,000
Album Artwork: $ 5,000
Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $ 2,000
Band fund: $ 15,000
New fancy professional drum kit: $ 5,000
New fancy professional guitars [2]: $ 3,000
New fancy professional guitar amp rigs [2]: $ 4,000
New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $ 1,000
New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $ 1,000
Rehearsal space rental: $ 500
Big blowout party for their friends: $ 500
Tour expense [5 weeks]: $ 50,875
Bus: $ 25,000
Crew [3]: $ 7,500
Food and per diems: $ 7,875
Fuel: $ 3,000
Consumable supplies: $ 3,500
Wardrobe: $ 1,000
Promotion: $ 3,000
Tour gross income: $ 50,000
Agent's cut: $ 7,500
Manager's cut: $ 7,500
Merchandising advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Publishing advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 =
$3,000,000
Gross retail revenue Royalty: [13% of 90% of retail]:
$ 351,000
Less advance: $ 250,000
Producer's points: [3% less $50,000 advance]:
$ 40,000
Promotional budget: $ 25,000
Recoupable buyout from previous label: $ 50,000

Net royalty: $ -14,000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Record company income:

Record wholesale price: $6.50 x 250,000 =
$1,625,000 gross income
Artist Royalties: $ 351,000
Deficit from royalties: $ 14,000
Manufacturing, packaging and distribution: @ $2.20 per record: $ 550,000
Gross profit: $ 7l0,000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.

Record company: $ 710,000
Producer: $ 90,000
Manager: $ 51,000
Studio: $ 52,500
Previous label: $ 50,000
Agent: $ 7,500
Lawyer: $ 12,000
Band member net income each: $ 4,031.25

To quote Steve Albini: "The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 million dollars richer, but is in the hole $14,000 on royalties. The band members have each earned about 1/3 as much as they would working at a 7-11, but they got to ride in a tour bus for a month. The next album will be about the same, except that the record company will insist they spend more time and money on it. Since the previous one never "recouped," the band will have no leverage, and will oblige. The next tour will be about the same, except the merchandising advance will have already been paid, and the band, strangely enough, won't have earned any royalties from their T-shirts yet. Maybe the T-shirt guys have figured out how to count money like record company guys. Some of your friends are probably already this ****ed.".

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm asking you civilly to answer my question, please. I've done so before, I'll do so again.

Answer my post, it won't take long. In all the time you've spent dodging it, you could have answered it and been done with it. You're only proving my point.

"You justified downloading by saying people may not have the money for CDs due to low income, correct?

So you condone stealing when someone has low income? I can only assume the same applies to shoplifting. Does it? It's a simple yes or no. You have typed thousands of words in the time you could have responded."

There. Please answer that.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
ok...i DO NOT consider downloading music to be a crime. happy? noit everyone think as you do, just as not everyone thinks as i do.
i consider shoplifting a crime. thats what you wanted to hear, right?

Downloading music is factually a crime. People have been arrested and convicted for it.

So...that about puts you up slack alley.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i DO NOT consider downloading music to be a crime.

Isn't that like saying 'I don't consider oxygen breathable'...

It is a crime, it is against the law. You can't argue that.