Originally posted by Ext@nt
No he was stronger then eternity. Spectre could waste eternity. Spectre wasn't able to beat him.
LOL it's so simple, here I'll do it like a math formula if that makes it easier for you.
Spectre = LT
LT> Eternity
Spectre was unable to defeat Anti-Monitor. Spectre would beat Eternity since it is lower then his counterpart.
Sorry Eternity is the physical repressentation of ONE universe.
Anti-Monitor would destroy him the way it has so many others.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
LOL it's so simple, here I'll do it like a math formula if that makes it easier for you.Spectre = LT
LT> Eternity
Originally posted by Ext@nt Anti-Monitor would destroy him the way it has so many others. [/B]
Tell you what, give me a minute and I'll show you the difference between Pre Crisis DC and a standard multiverse.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
It doesnt matter,Anti-Monitor would wipe out the Phoenix and every universe with every host as well.
Your just doing this to try and annoy me.
And I'm just doing this because White Crown and AM are right in the same power league, even though YOU don't want to admit it.
No you don't want to.
Here's my math equation one more time.
Spectre = LT
LT> Eternity
Eternity> Phoenix
Spectre was unable to defeat Anti-Monitor. Spectre would beat Eternity since it is lower then his counterpart.
Just cause you have an issue with me don't post nonsense. And I'm not the only one shocked by your claim as you can read.
Ok, I've decided to simply quote my post from the Anti Monitor vs Multi Eternity thread, to save time. Now the second part, is what I posted a day AFTER the first, which is why I refer to the AM being more powerful in the first than in the second. Take a look.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok, I've been doing some research into the whole COIE ordeal, and I've come to the conclusion that there's NO WAY, AM could win this fight. You see, as it turns out AM DIDN'T have the power of a near multi-verse. What he had was the power of a SINGLE large universe. Need proof? OK take a look...See, when one of the positive matter universes were destroyed, the anti matter universe expanded. AM didn't get all the power of the destroyed universe, his own universes power just increased. And that's what he got, the power of the Anti Matter Universe. He even says it himself, check it out...
So how much power did he get when he absorbed his universe? Well, luckily enough, that's covered earlier in the same issue...
So he has the power of 53 million worlds, with more that 2 million of them containing life. Now I'm pretty sure that Marvel has never released an exact number on the population of the multi-verse, but given that there's an infinite number of universes within it, I feel safe in saying that there are more worlds(inhabited, and uninhabited) within Marvel's multi-verse, than there is within the anti matter universe. And what does that mean? Well that means that ME has MORE power to draw from, and is therefore more powerful.
(Now to all of those that are arguing for AM absorbing Multi Eternity, I would just like to point out that he NEVER demonstrated the ability to absorb a standard universe, only an anti matter universe. Matter and anti matter cancel each other out, so if he HAD tried to absorb one of the standard universes, it would have probably destroyed him. So he WON'T be absorbing any part of ME.)
Now as for the big show down at the dawn of time, I want you to take a look at something...
Well look what AM says in the first and second panels. He used his energy to breach the Wall of Creation, and NEEDED the life energy of DC's heroes to complete the next step. So apparently, the power he absorbed, wasn't even enough to complete his plan. So even if AM got the chance to go back in time to try to destroy ME, he wouldn't have the power to do it when he got there.
Now for those of you who are bound to point out that it took the Spectre to stop AM, well I have come up with 2 possible answers as to why that was necessary.
1. At the time, the Spectre simply wasn't as powerful at the time as he is now.
2. (And this is the one I believe) It was the single BIGGEST PIS showing in comic book history. Need proof of that? Well look...Now think about that. The Spectre is backed by God, but for some reason he needs the power of some sorcerers to turn the tide? The way I figure it, DC needed someone that was more powerful than all the heroes put together for the big climactic showdown.But Kismet(DC's Eternity) hadn't been introduced yet. So who did DC have that fit that description? Spectre.
Looking at all this, I think it's safe to say, that Multi-Eternity wins this fight without to much trouble.
Originally posted by darthgoober
First of all, let me say thanks for the props everyone.Second of all, everyone who's a big DC fan, should get ready to HATE me(if you don't already), because I've discovered something that's going to PISS you off. However it will also explain how the Anti Matter Universe, was able to expand and become more powerful, while retaining it's original size(which I already covered in my last post). Just remember, I didn't come up with this stuff, I'm only pointing it out.
Now we'll start with the beginnings of the DC Multiverse(I've included the first two pages of it's origin for anybody who doesn't know it, but the important stuff doesn't start until the third scan)...
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1069/crisis707ks6.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7707/crisis708ye4.jpgThis one's a little more important, which is why you get a thumbnail for it(even though I already posted it)...
Now the reason I say that the third scan is more important, is because it shows the universes overlapping to a degree, without actually interacting. Why you ask? Because the universes that made up the DC multi-verse, weren't laid out side by side, they were kind of stacked within the same space, and were separated by vibrational wavelengths that kept them from actually interacting with each other. This is first mentioned on the first page of the first book...
See at the bottom it says that the universes were vibrating and replicating. Now I would also like to bring your attention to the part(in the same narration box), that says "what should have been one became many", because that's about to be important.
So what does all this talk about the universe fracturing and the resulting universes being separated by vibrations have to do with anything? Well I'll get to that after I show you these scans, which point out something important about the multi-verses origin...
This is from the first book. Look at what it says in the upper right hand panel. "The universe once divided into many parts...Each one different, independent, yet somehow WEAKER than the whole". What does this mean exactly? Well to put it bluntly, it means that even though DC at the time was a multiverse, it was a weak multiverse that only contained as much power as a single universe. And before anyone tries to call BS on the fact, here's the Monitor saying the same thing in the forth book...
"The universe was split apart at the dawn of time...each part WEAKER than the whole it was meant to be". He also says that the universes are separated by by vibrations and time.
When all of this is taken into account, here are my theories on the matter...
About AM's power increasing with the destruction of the positive matter universes... Well his universe obviously didn't grow outward and actually become larger(because of the dimensions given for it and because of the impossibility of an infinite number of universes being placed side by side). It would be more accurate to say that it grew in DENSITY(it's the best word I could think of to describe it). It became more real, and more like the ORIGINAL universe in overall power.
This also means(and THIS is what's really going to piss some people off), that even at the height of his power, AM wasn't even as powerful as a SINGLE intact universe(because there were still 5 universes left out to complete the whole). So not only could he not take Multi Eternity, he probably couldn't take the universal aspect of Eternity either. His power falls just shy(5 mini universes to be exact).
And Ext@nt I know how much you value Mr. M's opinion, so here's HIS opinions of what I posted...
Originally posted by Mr Master
Oh man, oh man,you just threw a wrench in the DC cosmological hype (concerning AM that is)
This is all sound, and the On panel evidence is indisputable.You a gangsta now
Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to agree with Darth.And it has nothing to do with my Marvel preference.
From the Scans that I read, it's undoubtably true, that the DC Multi-verse COIE, was in fact a Universe spread across creation as smaller or weaker units of itself.
Straight from the On Panel depictions.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Bats, I did point out I was referring to COIEWhat Darth has done is bring to light that AM was not all that and a bag a chips.
And for now, it stands that AM at the height of his power<Eternity (single Universe)
Had AM absorbed those last five universes, it would then be AM=Eternity.
So there you have it, a run down of just how powerful the AM really was.
Okay so your basic arguement is PIS? I'm sorry but I think thats becomming a bit to convienet to use.
I mean Spider-man vs Firelord thats PIS
This hardly is, The Anti-Monitor had absrobed the power of so many universes that yes I would put it on par with the wrath of god by the end of COIE.
The only reason the DC heroes were able to beat it was because the Spectre weakend it.
Sorry but my original equation stands.
Spectre = LT
LT> Eternity
Eternity> Phoenix
Spectre was unable to defeat Anti-Monitor. Spectre would beat Eternity since it is lower then his counterpart.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
Okay so your basic arguement is PIS? I'm sorry but I think thats becomming a bit to convienet to use.I mean Spider-man vs Firelord thats PIS
This hardly is, The Anti-Monitor had absrobed the power of so many universes that yes I would put it on par with the wrath of god by the end of COIE.
The only reason the DC heroes were able to beat it was because the Spectre weakend it.
Sorry but my original equation stands.
Spectre = LT
LT> Eternity
Eternity> Phoenix
Spectre was unable to defeat Anti-Monitor. Spectre would beat Eternity since it is lower then his counterpart.
No, The Anti Monitor absorbed the power of ONE nearly complete universe. Didn't you read all of it. And as I said, the only possible reasons for the whole Spectre thing are...
A. PIS(because the writers need someone who was recognizable and more powerful than all the heroes combined, and Spectre fit the bill).
B. He was less powerful then than he is now.
So pick whichever explanation you like, but either way...
(Universal)Eternity>Anti Monitor
And again no, I don't see it as PIS.
As I said in some cases PIS is true like Spider-man fighting firelord.
But in this case you are using it as an excuse cause you don;t like whats in a comic. There's a big difference.
He survived a battle with the wrath of god at the end of time. And it still took allot of VERY powerfull being to take him down.
Sorry you don't like it but thats the truth.
And Phoenix is simply a universal entity and anti-montior a multiversal one.
Phoenix gets wiped out.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
And again no, I don't see it as PIS.As I said in some cases PIS is true like Spider-man fighting firelord.
But in this case you are using it as an excuse cause you don;t like whats in a comic. There's a big difference.
See, I've backed up MY claim that AM was less than Eternity, and it's even been seconded by YOUR hero(Mr. Master), while YOU have yet to provide ANY proof to the contrary.
And keep in mind, I'm ONLY saying that White Crown and AM would be a good match. I have no idea who would win between the two, because we don't really have enough in the way of evidence to support it either way.
Originally posted by darthgoober
No, your ignoring everything I've pointed out because YOU don't like what happened in that comic(or the fact that White Crown would be a good match for AM). As I said, the only other option is that for some reason Spectre wasn't as powerful then as he is now.See, I've backed up MY claim that AM was less than Eternity, and it's even been seconded by YOUR hero(Mr. Master), while YOU have yet to provide ANY proof to the contrary.
And keep in mind, I'm ONLY saying that White Crown and AM would be a good match. I have no idea who would win between the two, because we don't really have enough in the way of evidence to support it either way.
No, you don't want to admit that AM withstood a battle with the wrath of god at the end of time and he wasn't that much weaker then he is now.
Every universe the AM destoryed made him that much stronger. By the end only a few universes were left. He was well beyond Eternity's level of power as eternity is the representation of ONE universe and AM had the combined power of MANY.
And Mr M is not my HERO, just a person I respect. That doesn't mean I will agree with everything he says.
I think like so many others, you OVER-estimate the Phoenix's power while UNDER-estimating others.
AM wasn;t even that strong yet and he fried Supergirl. He can kill phoenix hosts left and right.
I'm sorry you have a problem with me but you shouldn't let it get in the way of your debating.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
No, you don't want to admit that AM withstood a battle with the wrath of god at the end of time and he wasn't that much weaker then he is now.Every universe the AM destoryed made him that much stronger. By the end only a few universes were left. He was well beyond Eternity's level of power as eternity is the representation of ONE universe and AM had the combined power of MANY.
And Mr M is not my HERO, just a person I respect. That doesn't mean I will agree with everything he says.
I think like so many others, you OVER-estimate the Phoenix's power while UNDER-estimating others.
AM wasn;t even that strong yet and he fried Supergirl. He can kill phoenix hosts left and right.
I'm sorry you have a problem with me but you shouldn't let it get in the way of your debating.
Oh I dunno the fact that he survived a battle at the end of time with the wrath of god?
The fact that in a weaker form he fried Supergirl.
The fact that you yourself admitted Eternity is more powerful then Phoenix.
Eternity has the power of ONE universe, AM has the power of MANY MANY MANY universes.
And this is valid wether you like it or not.
Originally posted by Ext@nt
Oh I dunno the fact that he survived a battle at the end of time with the wrath of god?The fact that in a weaker form he fried Supergirl.
The fact that you yourself admitted Eternity is more powerful then Phoenix.
Eternity has the power of ONE universe, AM has the power of MANY MANY MANY universes.
And this is valid wether you like it or not.
And that's whether YOU like it or not.
