Originally posted by Nellinator
The Bible is a map to heaven. You can choose to follow the directions or not. You don't choose to go to hell, instead you choose not to go to heaven.
Last time I tried using the Bible as a map I ended up walking into a tree. Maybe it would do better if God updated it. The Bible GPS or something.
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveHow could God send a good person to Hell? How could a loving God condemn and consign a person who has a reputation for being good in so many people’s eyes to a place of torment? Why would God do such a thing?
Well, the answer is simple: No one is good enough to stand before God. God is holy (without sin). Apart from Jesus Christ we are all sinners and doomed to Hell. Yes, even history’s most renowned people are either in Hell or on their way there if they have not bowed their knee to Christ Jesus. Bigotry? Intolerance? Dogmatism?
The truth based on the Bible? How can I speak so absolutely about this subject? There are no absolutes, everything is relative, right? Question: what are absolutes based on objectivity or subjectivity? They are supposed to be based on objectivity. If something is a matter of opinion then it is considered to be subjective. If I ask you what your favorite ice cream is, your answer would not fall under the classification of something that is absolute because it is your personal, favorite. But if I asked you what 3 + 4 is and you feel or think that the answer is, “1,” because that is your belief, now we have a problem. You have just taken something that is absolute and made it relative. You have taken an objective and made it subjective. There is only one right answer to 3 + 4 = 7, and it is not 1. This is an absolute. I don’t see anyone arguing whether 3 + 4 is 7 yet this is an intolerant absolute. The answer doesn’t care whether you agree that 7 is the correct answer. If you mark 1 on your paper you are going to get this question wrong. Why? Because this is an absolute; there is only one right answer to this question. Irrespective of what you feel, think, believe, are accustomed to, your background, culture, upbringing, environment, skin color, social status, income-level, and tax bracket: 3 + 4 = 7.
But then how can so many people be wrong? What about the sincerity of those who are seeking a path to God? I just don’t believe that millions of people could be wrong especially if they are sincere, you say. Question: if a billion people sincerely believed that elephants were the size of ants, and turtles were faster than cheetahs, and sharks can’t smell blood, and that Hitler never existed, and that red is really yellow, and pink was really green, and 3 + 4 was really 9, does that make them right? But what about their sincerity, doesn’t that somehow smooth over the fact that they are wrong? Doesn’t their sincerity add some validity to what they think, feel, and believe? Absolutely not; their sincerity is irrelevant and immaterial, their still wrong. I said all that to say this: as peaceful as Gandhi was, as commendable as mother Theresa was, as good as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was, as laudable as some people say the Pope is, as admirable as your husband, wife, father, mother, siblings, relatives, in-laws, teachers, neighbors, boyfriend, girlfriend, or even adult children may be: if any of these people, yourself included dies in your sins (without asking Christ Jesus for forgiveness) then they/you are lost.Folks, when it comes to the path to God there is only one right Way.
We are all sinners apart from Jesus? How do you figure that?
What about Moses then? Was he a sinner?
And please, do not use mathematics to explain Jesus and sinners. Its a ''blashphemous'' thing to do against Mathematics.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
We are all sinners apart from Jesus? How do you figure that?What about Moses then? Was he a sinner?
And please, do not use mathematics to explain Jesus and sinners. Its a ''blashphemous'' thing to do against Mathematics.
From God's perspective (that of Righteous Judge) we are all sinners.
Read:
Romans 3:10
As it is written: “ There is none righteous, no, not one ;
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Was Moses a man? Then Moses too sinned and fell short of the glory of God? No one is exempt from this except Jesus. Lil...although we sin by our actions, we are primarily sinners through our nature (we are born sinners). The Bible states this. Read:
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned —
Did you get that? Through Adam sin entered the world. Moreover, all of us have sinned. Death spread to all people through Adam's sin.
Romans 5:19
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
Adam's sin nature was transmitted to each and every human being born subsequent to him. Believe it or not we are all descendants of Adam. Adam was the first man. He screwed it up for everyone born after him. That is why we die.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death , but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Adam's sin is what allowed death to enter his nature and his nature was passed to the world. That is why there is death: because of Adam's sin. The wages of sin is death.
The Good News (i.e., gospel)
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Although from God's point of view we are all sinners, Jesus Christ loved us enough to die for us so that we could be free from the wages of sin and have the opposite of death: eternal life.
How to be saved and receive eternal life provided through Jesus Christ
Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved .
Admit to God that you are a sinner, that you repent (change your heart and turn away from sin)
Confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord and that you believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. Ask Jesus to save you from your sins.
If you do this you will be saved...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Adam's sin nature was transmitted to each and every human being born subsequent to him. Believe it or not we are all descendants of Adam. Adam was the first man. He screwed it up for everyone born after him. That is why we die.[B]Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death , but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.Adam's sin is what allowed death to enter his nature and his nature was passed to the world. That is why there is death: because of Adam's sin. The wages of sin is death.[/B]
The old testament especially as far back as adam is heavily disputed. Take a look in genesis when noah is about to set sail on the ark, it states first that he should ahve seven pairs of each animal but then red a little farther and it states just one pair. Plus everything was destroyed in the flood even all the people so technically if we go by the bible all modern day people are descendants of noah. Abel had a wife who was not his sister so therefore other peoples had to have existed at the same time as adam and eve. My point is that genesis is very hard to rely on and
My question to JIA is what about all the people who don't have the opportunity to hear gods word? You obviously know a lot so you know that god is fair and just right so even if they grow believing soemthign else how could he condemn them to hell? Plus there is a belief in purgatory as well so if you don't accept christ initally you can still go to purgatory and eventually make it to heaven. No one can know exactly who goes to heaven and hell. There are great people out there, non-christian, who have better moral values than many christians. To say they won't make it to heaven is ridiculous because how can you convice a person with a strong belief in his religion to believ what you beleiev without any proof that your right. You say you know the truth about Jesus, but hypothetically speaking what if a muslim tried to convert you. What if he was right but you thought you were right. Does god then send you to hell because you didn't belive the right thing. God has compassion, and therefore people need to be judged by their actions not for their beliefs
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive😆 You're a joke.How could God send a good person to Hell? How could a loving God condemn and consign a person who has a reputation for being good in so many people’s eyes to a place of torment? Why would God do such a thing?
Well, the answer is simple: No one is good enough to stand before God. God is holy (without sin). Apart from Jesus Christ we are all sinners and doomed to Hell. Yes, even history’s most renowned people are either in Hell or on their way there if they have not bowed their knee to Christ Jesus. Bigotry? Intolerance? Dogmatism?
The truth based on the Bible? How can I speak so absolutely about this subject? There are no absolutes, everything is relative, right? Question: what are absolutes based on objectivity or subjectivity? They are supposed to be based on objectivity. If something is a matter of opinion then it is considered to be subjective. If I ask you what your favorite ice cream is, your answer would not fall under the classification of something that is absolute because it is your personal, favorite. But if I asked you what 3 + 4 is and you feel or think that the answer is, “1,” because that is your belief, now we have a problem. You have just taken something that is absolute and made it relative. You have taken an objective and made it subjective. There is only one right answer to 3 + 4 = 7, and it is not 1. This is an absolute. I don’t see anyone arguing whether 3 + 4 is 7 yet this is an intolerant absolute. The answer doesn’t care whether you agree that 7 is the correct answer. If you mark 1 on your paper you are going to get this question wrong. Why? Because this is an absolute; there is only one right answer to this question. Irrespective of what you feel, think, believe, are accustomed to, your background, culture, upbringing, environment, skin color, social status, income-level, and tax bracket: 3 + 4 = 7.
But then how can so many people be wrong? What about the sincerity of those who are seeking a path to God? I just don’t believe that millions of people could be wrong especially if they are sincere, you say. Question: if a billion people sincerely believed that elephants were the size of ants, and turtles were faster than cheetahs, and sharks can’t smell blood, and that Hitler never existed, and that red is really yellow, and pink was really green, and 3 + 4 was really 9, does that make them right? But what about their sincerity, doesn’t that somehow smooth over the fact that they are wrong? Doesn’t their sincerity add some validity to what they think, feel, and believe? Absolutely not; their sincerity is irrelevant and immaterial, their still wrong. I said all that to say this: as peaceful as Gandhi was, as commendable as mother Theresa was, as good as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was, as laudable as some people say the Pope is, as admirable as your husband, wife, father, mother, siblings, relatives, in-laws, teachers, neighbors, boyfriend, girlfriend, or even adult children may be: if any of these people, yourself included dies in your sins (without asking Christ Jesus for forgiveness) then they/you are lost.Folks, when it comes to the path to God there is only one right Way.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Darth, I too questioned the Bible. I don't think that I ever questioned God's existence seriously, but I did question the Bible. God gave you a brain to think not to question His existence. Moreover, God gave you a brain to exercise your free will (power to choose). God is not going to force you to go to Heaven. God will not coerce you into witnessing the glory, wonder, and beauty of Heaven. I don't know about you but I can't wait to go to Heaven!
And now that it works for you it must work that same way for everyone else...I hope I speak for us all when I say I appreciate your willingness and good nature to tell us all how happy you are with your life and beliefs...good for you...I'm happy that your happy and you should be happy that I (like God) wont force or try and coerce you to believe or appreciate my values in life.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Your logic is not sensible. God is holy (sin-less) that is why He cannot allow sin in His presence. But He made a way for humanity to get back into right relationship with Him through His Son Jesus. God is not trying to send people to Hell, He is trying to keep them from going to Hell. Why do you think He allowed His only Son to go through so much pain (spiritual and physical) to save you, me, and everyone else?
Well he doesn't seem to be trying very hard... once every 2000 years? That's one lazy mf-er. Oh wait I forgot to count the grilled cheese sandwich incident that happened down South. Maybe he figured that would be a little more efficient than sacrificing his son. I can think of many more compassionate ways to try and lead people down a life filled with love, kindness and hard work. But being lazy and crazy? not a good combo for someone who is supposed to lead by example. Shit we already got a lazy and crazy leader in N. America. But I think I understand why you want people to be saved. It's the declining morality of our society right? There's too many people trying to make other hardworking, kind people believe in their flawed ways of thinking, right?
Originally posted by Alliance
The first sentance concerns me.
Yes I admit my first sentance was a bit harsh compared to the rest of the statement, but I spoke plainly. I have the impression he was trying to coerce the poster he replied to into his mode of belief. If that was not his intention than I would gladly discuss it with him. I apologize if your offended by by my statement. I hope that explanation is helpful.