Originally posted by Bardock42
Nah, it's just a general consensus, if you want to sit there and go "But I don't want to give any reasons and evidence", fair enough...I won't stop you, others that want to participate in what is usually seen as a debate won't agree though and stop you from keeping to disrupt the debate...
and whether or not you think hitler was evil, the general consensous is that killing millions is pretty f*ckin bad. that's probably why rogue jedi said he was evil. (which lead to your response which pissed me off so much) everything that is excepted in our society teaches us o believe that men like hitler are evil. the very characteristics that define us as human beings such as our ability to feel such a wide range of emotions teach us that there are certain things that all people are intitled to and to denie them such things is unforgiveable and unjustifyable.
earlier in the debate Grand Moff gav was talking about darwinism . darwinism in fact exlains why hitler was evil. darwinism suggest survival of the fittest. this can be physical as well behavioral adaptations. ironically humans developed so as to fight darwinism, and in so doing created one of the most fascinating adaptations found in nature. humans do not belive in survival of the fittest. it is in our nature to help those who are weak even if it means risking our own lives and we do all we can to help others survive, thus, those who oppose such ideals are (if you believe that evil is a matter of opinion) are against the general opinion of mankind:evil. you wanted data. There is none for either of us. However everything we have ever learned suggests hitler was evil. You know this as does everyone else on this thread.You have the burden of proof. Convince me.
Originally posted by Rapscallion
and whether or not you think hitler was evil, the general consensous is that killing millions is pretty f*ckin bad. that's probably why rogue jedi said he was evil. (which lead to your response which pissed me off so much) everything that is excepted in our society teaches us o believe that men like hitler are evil. the very characteristics that define us as human beings such as our ability to feel such a wide range of emotions teach us that there are certain things that all people are intitled to and to denie them such things is unforgiveable and unjustifyable.earlier in the debate Grand Moff gav was talking about darwinism . darwinism in fact exlains why hitler was evil. darwinism suggest survival of the fittest. this can be physical as well behavioral adaptations. ironically humans developed so as to fight darwinism, and in so doing created one of the most fascinating adaptations found in nature. humans do not belive in survival of the fittest. it is in our nature to help those who are weak even if it means risking our own lives and we do all we can to help others survive, thus, those who oppose such ideals are (if you believe that evil is a matter of opinion) are against the general opinion of mankind:evil. you wanted data. There is none for either of us. However everything we have ever learned suggests hitler was evil. You know this as does everyone else on this thread.You have the burden of proof. Convince me.
I have the burden of proof? How so? I am claiming what is obvious, that there is no absolute morals. If there are none then Hitler was not evil...the majority of people thinking that he was evil does not change that fact a bit. So, please, if you can give me any evidence that there is an absolute, unchangeable scale that says that Hitler is evil do so, if you can't..well then Hitler might not have been evil.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I have the burden of proof? How so? I am claiming what is obvious, that there is no absolute morals.
If there's, like you claim, no real scale for evil, there's no scale for other stuff like altruism, happiness, sadness and so. But people aren't machines, we don't live by well defined rules and scales. Each person has his own set of rules.
bullshit. you cant prove anything either.all you have is some your own stubborn view that evil does not exhist which doesn't explain why he wasn't evil it is just a way of avoiding the question. i explained why i believe what i do. your argument doesn't hold much weight in a discussion of "was hitler evil" if you don't believe evil exhists.
Originally posted by Rapscallion
bullshit. you cant prove anything either.all you have is some your own stubborn view that evil does not exhist which doesn't explain why he wasn't evil it is just a way of avoiding the question. i explained why i believe what i do. your argument doesn't hold much weight in a discussion of "was hitler evil" if you don't believe evil exhists.
Of course I don't have proof. How in the hell can I prove the non existence of something....do you read what you write?
And of course it does, that is the first question when talking about Evil.
First Question: Does "evil" exist?
Second Questions: Does the person mentioned fit "evil"?
There is no evidence that "evil" does exist. None. What exists is that people dislike or condemn certain people or actions. That is not the topic of the thread though.
Originally posted by who?-kid
Maybe not for you. For me however, it's not that easy. I have limits and I have a conscience. My conscience tells me that being responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent men, women and children is evil.If there's, like you claim, no real scale for evil, there's no scale for other stuff like altruism, happiness, sadness and so. But people aren't machines, we don't live by well defined rules and scales. Each person has his own set of rules.
The last sentence is very true...everyone has their own scales, they are in no way absolute as the word evil implies. If you want to say that by your moral standards Hitler was evil...fair enough...say that, but don't say Hitler was evil...since there is nothing to support such a claim.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Of course I don't have proof. How in the hell can I prove the non existence of something....do you read what you write?And of course it does, that is the first question when talking about Evil.
First Question: Does "evil" exist?
Second Questions: Does the person mentioned fit "evil"?There is no evidence that "evil" does exist. None. What exists is that people dislike or condemn certain people or actions. That is not the topic of the thread though.
you were the one who was all "did you read that up in a book or did you pull that out of your ass. give me data"
i didn't ask for data. i acknowledged twice that you can't give it. i asked you to explain why you believe he was not evil. maybe you should read what i write. you finaly answered which is what i asked. i can't respect your opinion if you just opposed me for not saying why.
Originally posted by Rapscallion
you were the one who was all "did you read that up in a book or did you pull that out of your ass. give me data"i didn't ask for data. i acknowledged twice that you can't give it. i asked you to explain why you believe he was not evil. maybe you should read what i write. you finaly answered which is what i asked. i can't respect your opinion if you just opposed me for not saying why.
If you are going to claim that Hitler is evil you have to give evidence why he is evil. You didn't, you gave evidence why he is evil to you...big difference.
I on the other hand acknowledge that there is no evidence to support a claim of Hitler being evil and draw the most logical conclusion from it, that he probably wasn't evil.
Do you get it now? Are you done trying to twist the facts? Would be nice if you could just acknowledge my point or counter it in a reasonable way.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh, yeah, you should really stop being childish.
ah. nothing says "i'm not childish" quite like insulting someone. I do get what your saying however. but i have to ask
1). do you belive evil exhists in people other than hitler or just not at all?
i think you already answered, but for a second you sounded as though you thought it might when you say "he probably wasn't evil"
Originally posted by Rapscallion
ah. nothing says "i'm not childish" quite like insulting someone. I do get what your saying however. but i have to ask
1). do you belive evil exhists in people other than hitler or just not at all?
i think you already answered, but for a second you sounded as though you thought it might when you say "he probably wasn't evil"
I believe evil, as an absolute concept does not exist. Neither does good in my opinion. I won't say it cannot exist, but I jsut see any way how it coudld and it is just very, very, very and a few more verys unlikely.
So, why do you think he is evil.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I believe evil, as an absolute concept does not exist. Neither does good in my opinion. I won't say it cannot exist, but I jsut see any way how it coudld and it is just very, very, very and a few more verys unlikely.So, why do you think he is evil.
Correct, there is no absolute way to prove the Evil or Good exist in scientific terms. But the vast majority of sane, logical and rational people would agree that senselessly killing millions of people for superficial reasons is 'evil' while say willingly sacrificing yourself so someone else can live would be 'good'. So in that sense, Hitler was evil.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I believe evil, as an absolute concept does not exist. Neither does good in my opinion. I won't say it cannot exist, but I jsut see any way how it coudld and it is just very, very, very and a few more verys unlikely.So, why do you think he is evil.
fair enough. i already explained why i think he is evil earlier on page 11 (don't feel like typing it all back up) but simply put: He is responsible for more murders than anyone else in history and he did it with the intent to hurt people not help. i think murdering is undeniably bad, and he murdered a ton of people.
new question: you say evil could exhist. if it does exhist, hypothetically do you think it could exhist in anyone if it didn't exhist in hitler?
Originally posted by Rapscallion
fair enough. i already explained why i think he is evil earlier on page 11 (don't feel like typing it all back up) but simply put: He is responsible for more murders than anyone else in history and he did it with the intent to hurt people not help. i think murdering is undeniably bad, and he murdered a ton of people.new question: you say evil could exhist. if it does exhist, hypothetically do you think it could exhist in anyone if it didn't exhist in hitler?
Correction, there are far worst murderers in history body count wise.
Originally posted by Bardock42
You obviously can not read, I did not claim that. That was Dr. Zaius..we are like...different people...get it? Cool.Who told you thatß Where did you get it from? Any absolute book I can look this rule up? Did you jut pull it out of your ass?
Originally posted by Bardock42
I believe evil, as an absolute concept does not exist. Neither does good in my opinion. I won't say it cannot exist, but I jsut see any way how it coudld and it is just very, very, very and a few more verys unlikely.So, why do you think he is evil.