While logic is certainly involved, the reason I'm not comfortable with the word is because, killing yourself is a decision highly powered by emotion, so it isn't just headwork that is leading them to that choice.
"Understandable," IMO, implies a taking in of where suicide bombers are coming from emotionally as well as rationally.
Some people believe that killing youself to achieve a greater goal is an acceptable option. I cant entirely disagree with that.
Its not a choice that is enitrely powered by emotion, there is much logic involved...hence the terrorists selection of vulnerable and devastating targets.
Much like the Buddhist monks who set themseles on fire to protest the Ngo Dinh Diem Regime.
Originally posted by Alliance
1. Some people believe that killing youself to achieve a greater goal is an acceptable option. I cant entirely disagree with that.2. Its not a choice that is enitrely powered by emotion, there is much logic involved...hence the terrorists selection of vulnerable and devastating targets.
1. Neither can I, as your Buddhist monk example illustrates (though note, he is killing only himself). It depends on the goal and whatever other options may/may not be available.
2. Agreed. As I said, logic is involved, but the driving force which logic serves is emotional.
Originally posted by Alliance
No. But its entirely logical why some choose too.
Logical? If some guy told me to go blow myself up and kill infidels in the process because this would serve Allah to the fullest and ensure my place in heaven, my first question to this wise man would be, "Why aren't you leading by example?"
Originally posted by Mindship
2. Agreed. As I said, logic is involved, but the driving force which logic serves is emotional.
But cant you just say everything is some lame attempt to satisfy an emotional need? You pray because it makes you feel better, as you do when you bring your girfreind flowers. S&M hurts a lot, but you get a greater sexual pleasure.
You could just say that everything is simply an emotional need.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
sorry missunderstanding.What did you mean?
Originally posted by Robtard
Logical? If some guy told me to go blow myself up and kill infidels in the process because this would serve Allah to the fullest and ensure my place in heaven, my first question to this wise man would be, "Why aren't you leading by example?"
So yes, the rationale for why people become terrorists is perfectly logical.
And not everyone leads by example. "teachers" stay behind. Besides...if these men are ordained by god, who are you to question what god has chosen their role to be?
Originally posted by Alliance
I know what Islam says, but this thread reaks of gross misconceptions and racism. It just ticked me off.
Excuse me , you reek of bullshit and self implied 733tism but that doesn't mean it's true. If i wanted to be racist and full of misconception I would have posted something along the liens of...
"Why are all these muslim bastard blowing themselves up in my country the quiran is bullshit kill the ****ing islam scum"
I posted this thread as a legible question , their are various rumours and falsehoods floating around as to why the suicide bombers are doing this. I'd like to sift the truth from the crap.
Now if your done whining about me asking a legitimate question then please remove yourself from the thread , or to put it more simply. If you dont like it , leave.
Originally posted by Council#13
Now please, it's not all muslims! It's just the religous zealots who think that they're doing the work of god, while in reality, they are doing what is against everything that any religon teaches. And I hope that that Ra comment wasn't an obscene racial comment.
A. Notice i said Fanatical Sects . I understand completely that a large amount of the muslim community doesn't condone nay tolerate the few who believe that killing Westerners will get them anywhere or that blowing yourself up is a 'good' thing as long as you take as many people with you as possible.
B. The Ra comment was because i was picking a outdated and rarely used religion at random as to not offend any of the various christians , muslims , jews etc etc
A growing number of psychologists and political scientists would be finding that military occupation, alienation and perceptions of general political oppression, not the rantings of radical clerics or the indoctrination of students in madrassas, fuel extreme violence in the Muslim world.
People become terrorists through social networks and emotional bonds, not because of religious devotion or indoctrination. Religious belief may help sustain terrorists' commitment to the jihad, but it is not what causes them to join in the first place. Terrorism is seen as a form of empowerment. For people who feel dispossessed or politically oppressed, participating in terrorist activities is a way of finding empowerment in a situation where people perceive no other choice exists. This is Nichole Argo' s interpretation of the scholars she surveyed (a freelance journalist and doctoral student in political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology).
This research is clearly controversial and at odds with the common interpretation advanced by governments and the news media.
Originally posted by Storm
A growing number of psychologists and political scientists would be finding that military occupation, alienation and perceptions of general political oppression, not the rantings of radical clerics or the indoctrination of students in madrassas, fuel extreme violence in the Muslim world.
People become terrorists through social networks and emotional bonds, not because of religious devotion or indoctrination. Religious belief may help sustain terrorists' commitment to the jihad, but it is not what causes them to join in the first place. Terrorism is seen as a form of empowerment. For people who feel dispossessed or politically oppressed, participating in terrorist activities is a way of finding empowerment in a situation where people perceive no other choice exists. This is Nichole Argo' s interpretation of the scholars she surveyed (a freelance journalist and doctoral student in political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology).This research is clearly controversial and at odds with the common interpretation advanced by governments and the news media.
Of course and i understand that completely. But (not to sound rude) i honestly only wondered about the spiritual side of it. I do understand that there is politics, discrimination hate and various other emotional factors to key in .
the religious side is this. the american presence in iraq in afghanistan is polarizing the islamic communities in those respective countries. thanks to this the extremes are becoming more popular. either you love the americans or you hate them and wish them dead. the fundamentalists prey on that and use it to convince people that the quran says they will be rewarded in heaven if they sacrifice themselves. think middle ages and the promises of the pope to the knights. similar idea.
To me, If someone blows themselves and others up on the promise of 70-odd virgins that sounds more like a SEXUAL incentive, not a spiritual one.
The apparent fact that books of peace are being used to justify murder on BOTH sides is worrying.
Take the Zionist 'endtimes theology' being aimed for/facilitated by US in the middle east right now for example...
Anyone who doesnt know what 'Endtimes theology' is, then they may wanna google it and see what the Neo-cons are up to/aiming for.
Worried the shit out of me...
Originally posted by grey fox
Excuse me , you reek of bullshit and self implied 733tism but that doesn't mean it's true. If i wanted to be racist and full of misconception I would have posted something along the liens of..."Why are all these muslim bastard blowing themselves up in my country the quiran is bullshit kill the ****ing islam scum"
I posted this thread as a legible question , their are various rumours and falsehoods floating around as to [b]why
the suicide bombers are doing this. I'd like to sift the truth from the crap.Now if your done whining about me asking a legitimate question then please remove yourself from the thread , or to put it more simply. If you dont like it , leave.
A. Notice i said Fanatical Sects . I understand completely that a large amount of the muslim community doesn't condone nay tolerate the few who believe that killing Westerners will get them anywhere or that blowing yourself up is a 'good' thing as long as you take as many people with you as possible.
B. The Ra comment was because i was picking a outdated and rarely used religion at random as to not offend any of the various christians , muslims , jews etc etc [/B]
Oh right! 😮 We're good 😉 I apologize if I offended you
Originally posted by Alliance
You could just say that everything is simply an emotional need.
Of course. Human beings are complex beings. But there are, first of all, the primal or "reptilian" emotions -- fear and anger -- which have to do with survival; and then there are the higher or "mammalian" emotions, like love. Suicide bombers operate from primal emotions.
There is also the intensity of emotion; emotions are sometimes so intense they completely skew any rational thinking (though the thought process may be "rational" relative to the intense emotion). Suicide bombers come from a very intense emotional space.
Originally posted by Storm
A growing number of psychologists and political scientists would be finding that military occupation, alienation and perceptions of general political oppression, not the rantings of radical clerics or the indoctrination of students in madrassas, fuel extreme violence in the Muslim world.
People become terrorists through social networks and emotional bonds, not because of religious devotion or indoctrination. Religious belief may help sustain terrorists' commitment to the jihad, but it is not what causes them to join in the first place. Terrorism is seen as a form of empowerment. For people who feel dispossessed or politically oppressed, participating in terrorist activities is a way of finding empowerment in a situation where people perceive no other choice exists. This is Nichole Argo' s interpretation of the scholars she surveyed (a freelance journalist and doctoral student in political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology).This research is clearly controversial and at odds with the common interpretation advanced by governments and the news media.
Controversial....not to my knowledge. Its logical. (and something I've believed for a while)
Add in the anger over Isreal and US over-involvment in affairs it has no business in....you get *poof* modern terrorism.
The best part is...if you use this defenition...the "War on Terror" will do nothing but create more terror.