Originally posted by Bardock42
She was a criminal though. To be fair.
Well so was Nelson Mandela, and Ghandi and so on. History has a way of seperating people punished by law if, in retrospect, the law that condemned them is seen as wrong (today at least.)
At the time she broke the law - history has vindicated her though and said she was right in doing so.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Well so was Nelson Mandela, and Ghandi and so on. History has a way of seperating people punished by law if, in retrospect, the law that condemned them is seen as wrong (today at least.)At the time she broke the law - history has vindicated her though and said she was right in doing so.
Yes, yes..but that doesn't change the fact that she was a criminal.
whether or not someone can be technically tagged with the word "criminal" is trivial. the whole point was the racism behind using this technicallity to justify hating a civil disobediant. yet jesus christ was tried, convicted, and sentenced to death for treason, a crime which is still punishable by death in the u.s. btw. so again kidrock, technically parks was a criminal, therefore you hated her....so you hate jesus.....right? just say it or take it back. this sudden convenient silence will not help you out. i'll just throw it back at you the next time you try to play the race card.
Originally posted by PVS
whether or not someone can be technically tagged with the word "criminal" is trivial. the whole point was the racism behind using this technicallity to justify hating a civil disobediant. yet jesus christ was tried, convicted, and sentenced to death for treason, a crime which is still punishable by death in the u.s. btw. so again kidrock, technically parks was a criminal, therefore you hated her....so you hate jesus.....right? just say it or take it back. this sudden convenient silence will not help you out. i'll just throw it back at you the next time you try to play the race card.
If Jesus is a criminal then I sure do hate him.
You said it yourself, technically Parks was a criminal, so I hate her for that. Breaking the law is breaking the law.
Originally posted by KidRock
If Jesus is a criminal then I sure do hate him.You said it yourself, technically Parks was a criminal, so I hate her for that. Breaking the law is breaking the law.
I don't hate people for breaking a (imo) unjust law. But they just are criminals. BY the very definition of the word.
They wouldn't be criminals nowadays maybe. No one denies that though.
Originally posted by Bardock42
What....we are talking about Rosa Parks being a criminal. For breaking the laws of her time.
In one thread, you argue that Hitlers actions are evil, but not everyone would think so, which means he's not really evil in an absolute way. I think it's ridiculous to say that Rosa Parks was a criminal based on the laws of the time. Because according to teh laws of the time she was also considered less than a whole human being as well. So, before she refused to move, she was not a real human being, but after she got arrested, she was?
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
In one thread, you argue that Hitlers actions are evil, but not everyone would think so, which means he's not really evil in an absolute way. I think it's ridiculous to say that Rosa Parks was a criminal based on the laws of the time. Because according to teh laws of the time she was also considered less than a whole human being as well. So, before she refused to move, she was not a real human being, but after she got arrested, she was?
There's a difference though.
The word criminal is defined as someone that breaks the law. It doesn't say anything about the law having to be "just" or accepted throughout time. Someone that breaks the law is a criminal or at least someone that is convicted of breaking the law. She was both ergo she is a criminal. That's really all there is to it.
We can talk about the laws back then being "good" or "bad" by today standards if you want. But we really shouldn't deny that she was a criminal. Since she was.
Originally posted by Bardock42
We can talk about the laws back then being "good" or "bad" by today standards if you want. But we really shouldn't deny that she was a criminal. Since she was.
And my point is that criminal is just as subjective a term in this case, be it todays laws or yesterdays laws, as is the ideal of evil...considering who's looking at it.
Since there wasn't a solid crimes against humanity precedent before the end of WW2, does that mean that the Nazis weren't criminals?
And there's always a difference.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
And my point is that criminal is just as subjective a term in this case, be it todays laws or yesterdays laws, as is the ideal of evil...considering who's looking at it.Since there wasn't a solid crimes against humanity precedent before the end of WW2, does that mean that the Nazis weren't criminals?
And there's always a difference.
Well, the Nazis except for those that were convicted afterwards weren't really criminals. And no one i claiming that would be a criminal nowadays. but she was back then. I meant that's not really up for debate. She broke the law she got convicted she's a criminal.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, the Nazis except for those that were convicted afterwards weren't really criminals. And no one i claiming that would be a criminal nowadays. but she was back then. I meant that's not really up for debate. She broke the law she got convicted she's a criminal.
Then we shall agree to disagree. I feel that certain laws were made to be broken, and that the people who break them are heroes, not criminals. It is, in my view, that opinion which made it a law to begin with. It's that black and white outlook that I disagree with, while you say there is no black or white in the Hitler thread.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Then we shall agree to disagree. I feel that certain laws were made to be broken, and that the people who break them are heroes, not criminals. It is, in my view, that opinion which made it a law to begin with. It's that black and white outlook that I disagree with, while you say there is no black or white in the Hitler thread.
The only difference in our views is that I feel that certain laws were made to be broken, and that the people who break them are heroes, but also, by definition, criminals.
The difference is that it's a definition that just fits what has happened. It's like 2+2 = 4 ...because we defined it to mean that. If evil meant "A person that is responsible for the death of many people", I would have no problem with calling Hitler evil, but well, it doesn't.
Originally posted by Bardock42
The only difference in our views is that I feel that certain laws were made to be broken, and that the people who break them are heroes, but also, by definition, criminals.The difference is that it's a definition that just fits what has happened. It's like 2+2 = 4 ...because we defined it to mean that. If evil meant "A person that is responsible for the death of many people", I would have no problem with calling Hitler evil, but well, it doesn't.
I understand. You believe it wasn't Hitler that was evil, but his actions could be considered evil. And that it was Parks actions that made her a hero as well as a criminal. I just don't think that way. Hitler's actions didn't make the man evil any more than Park's actions made her a criminal. That's all I'm saying.