Wonderman vs. Ulik

Originally posted by h1a8
Ulik has done nothing above Thing level outside of Thor but fall off a building and get koed.
Again Classic Thor is inconsistent. He wasn't even bullet proof at the time. Mongoose gave him problems, ice, etc.
Colossus went toe to toe with Glads and Hulk.

Colossus could have given classic Thor a good fight. Otherwise they wouldn't have him give Glads (a clear Superman clone) a good fight.

Way to leave out context bro. It was a skyscraper and he was heavvily dazed beforehand.

Yeah so is every character in the history of comics. Hulk was choked out by a python and glads kod by cannonball (or whatever his name is). Lowballing thor by saying some of his low showings and then highballing colossus by mentioning the better showings of his carear does no prove anything.

So you have nothing that points to ulik being thing level.

Wonderman, with a fair degree of ease.

I'm going to give Simon a small majority. 6/10

Originally posted by Damborgson
Way to leave out context bro. It was a skyscraper and he was heavvily dazed beforehand.

Yeah so is every character in the history of comics. Hulk was choked out by a python and glads kod by cannonball (or whatever his name is). Lowballing thor by saying some of his low showings and then highballing colossus by mentioning the better showings of his carear does no prove anything.

So you have nothing that points to ulik being thing level.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Classic Thor was wildly inconsistent with a LARGE standard deviation. Lowballing has something to do with introducing a low showing as a standard power level in a forum fight. I'm not lowballing Thor (rather I'm doing the opposite) by merely saying that a character performing well against him doesn't mean that character is REALLY on Thor's level.

The writer's intention wasn't that he was dazed as to why the fall knocked him out. The fall was simply too much for him.

Lastly, I was making a point. You put Ulik above Colossus because of his run ins with Thor. Yet Colossus had run ins with beings that will give Thor fits (legitimately) and he still held his own quite well.

Originally posted by h1a8
NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Classic Thor was wildly inconsistent with a LARGE standard deviation. Lowballing has something to do with introducing a low showing as a standard power level in a forum fight. I'm not lowballing Thor (rather I'm doing the opposite) by merely saying that a character performing well against him doesn't mean that character is REALLY on Thor's level.

The writer's intention wasn't that he was dazed as to why the fall knocked him out. The fall was simply too much for him.

Lastly, I was making a point. You put Ulik above Colossus because of his run ins with Thor. Yet Colossus had run ins with beings that will give Thor fits (legitimately) and he still held his own quite well.

Then I can use that same logic for colossus. Him doing well against gladiator and hulk is really just a downplay of the two. Doesn't mean he's ACTUALLY capable of doing well against them. (which against gladiator "doing well" means scuffing up his clothes i guess.)

Do you understand what you are saying? You're saying that if a character does well against a powerhouse repeatedly in terms of physical strength it doesn't really mean he's on that level of the powerhouse. Its just been a continuous downplay by different writers.

Who told you the writers intention? You have no proof that him being dazed wasn't what contributed to the Ko'ing. I have common sense on my side. Of course Ulik is no Thor, but he's no Thing either. You'be yet to provide a solid bit of evidence that would suggest him being on the level of the Thing.

Interesting point. Funny how when Ulik does well it doesn't seem to count. Anything above Thing level is a downplay of the opposing character.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Then I can use that same logic for colossus. Him doing well against gladiator and hulk is really just a downplay of the two. Doesn't mean he's ACTUALLY capable of doing well against them. (which against gladiator "doing well" means scuffing up his clothes i guess.)

Do you understand what you are saying? You're saying that if a character does well against a powerhouse repeatedly in terms of physical strength it doesn't really mean he's on that level of the powerhouse. Its just been a continuous downplay by different writers.

Who told you the writers intention? You have no proof that him being dazed wasn't what contributed to the Ko'ing. I have common sense on my side. Of course Ulik is no Thor, but he's no Thing either. You'be yet to provide a solid bit of evidence that would suggest him being on the level of the Thing.

Interesting point. Funny how when Ulik does well it doesn't seem to count. Anything above Thing level is a downplay of the opposing character.

Thor was wildly inconsistent in his classic days. That's why you just can't go by fights against him only.

Nowadays Thor would greatly outclass Ulik and you know it.

But if you use Ulik's fights against Thor to gauge Ulik's power then I can use Colossus fights against Glads and Hulk as well. Seems fair to me.

Originally posted by h1a8
Congrats, you see my point. It's all about how a character fares outside of a given character. Ulik doesn't hold up outside of Thor.

Thor was wildly inconsistent in his classic days. That's why you just can't go by fights against him only.

Nowadays Thor would greatly outclass Ulik and you know it.

But if you use Ulik's fights against Thor to gauge Ulik's power then I can use Colossus fights against Glads and Hulk as well. Seems fair to me.

go ahead. Ulik though by showinngs would so better so it doesn't really matter.

Going by Tanarus (Ulik) recent showings, i think i might give it to him.

In Mighty Thor, the dude was powerful enough to open up Terminus's armor (in the past it was said that only people in Hercules strength class could do that) and he casually owned Heimdall.

I think Ulik is slightly above or just about equal to Wonderman.

Originally posted by Damborgson
concession accepted h1. You know just how flawed your logic is. Even now you have nothing demonstrating ulik to be at thing level. And now that your "point" backfired you can only repeat the same nonsense.

go ahead. Ulik though by showinngs would so better so it doesn't really matter.

Logic 101:

If Ulik NEVER performed higher than Thing level outside of Thor but rather he performed exactly on Thing's level by being koed by falling off the skyscraper then it stands to reason that Thor was written down. Now if Ulik has any feats above Thing or Colossus outside of Thor then I will concede.

If Thor nowadays can outclass Ulik with a fair amount of ease then it stands to reason that Thor was written down.

Originally posted by deathlife
Going by Tanarus (Ulik) recent showings, i think i might give it to him.

In Mighty Thor, the dude was powerful enough to open up Terminus's armor (in the past it was said that only people in Hercules strength class could do that) and he casually owned Heimdall.

I think Ulik is slightly above or just about equal to Wonderman.

scans, issues?

Originally posted by h1a8
Logic 101:

If Ulik NEVER performed higher than Thing level outside of Thor but rather he performed exactly on Thing's level by being koed by falling off the skyscraper then it stands to reason that Thor was written down. Now if Ulik has any feats above Thing or Colossus outside of Thor then I will concede.

If Thor nowadays can outclass Ulik with a fair amount of ease then it stands to reason that Thor was written down.

You have set yourself up as a buffoon. Your rules/criteria/measuring sticks are not the standard by which the debate is based.

All characters have "low showings". Just as all fighters have bad fights.

Low showings cannot be used to negate all previous high-showings for a character. Especially, when the low-showings are few in number.

The way to win a debate is to run it upon "popular opinion". Especially, once you see that your personal perspective is not being accepted by the majority of observers.

If you look, you will see that the most successful debaters are able to see when they need to realize that their argument is not being accepted by the majority, and are then able to switch gears and attack from a new angle, using logic and evidence that indisputable.

Personal Opinions cannot be forced upon others.

Originally posted by h1a8
Logic 101:

If Ulik NEVER performed higher than Thing level outside of Thor but rather he performed exactly on Thing's level by being koed by falling off the skyscraper then it stands to reason that Thor was written down. Now if Ulik has any feats above Thing or Colossus outside of Thor then I will concede.

If Thor nowadays can outclass Ulik with a fair amount of ease then it stands to reason that Thor was written down.

Sorting Through H1's BS 101:

Why are you excluding Thor? Its not like Ulik is a consistently shown character outside of Asgardian related stories. Who exactly do you think he will fight on a regular basis? Could it be Thor? And being a Thor villain and all could there be a possibility that him challenging Thor is meant to show that he is physically capable of giving him trouble? OR and this is what you think: Its a years long conspiracy in order to make Thor look bad and over hype Ulik. use your head. I don't like having to talk down to you like this.

Falling off a building while dazed and getting Ko'd is EXACTLY thing level? You lowball with a passion but this is pathetic. Its based on nothing and until there is a shred of evidence that portrays Ulik as being under the level he is while facing Thor, your spewing BS.

I don't need to provide any more evidence outside of Thor that would prove Ulik is above the Thing. I already have proven that he is. YOU on the other hand need to prove that he is thing level and you seem to have nothing but low balling and taking things out of context. I dont care if you concede H1. The fact stands: You're wrong. That wont change.

Btw I think its pretty interesting how you constantly ***** at characters operating at their best in forum matches but you use Ulik getting Ko'd as a standard. So which is it?

So Ulik is above Thing simply because of his fights with Classic Thor? Is Mongoose above Thing too?

But what if Thor was operating at bullet can harm me levels?

Why is Spider-man vs. Firelord PIS? Is it because of Spider-man's showings outside of firelord?

Ulik vs. a very inconsistent character doesn't mean much in itself. He must perform to those levels outside of Thor. Unfortunately he hasn't but rather he has performed worst outside of Thor. Lowballing only exists if a character has shown better. Ulik hasn't shown better outside of Thor so I never low balled him.

Originally posted by h1a8
So Ulik is above Thing simply because of his fights with Classic Thor? Is Mongoose above Thing too?

But what if Thor was operating at bullet can harm me levels?

Why is Spider-man vs. Firelord PIS? Is it because of Spider-man's showings outside of firelord?

Ulik vs. a very inconsistent character doesn't mean much in itself. He must perform to those levels outside of Thor. Unfortunately he hasn't but rather he has performed worst outside of Thor. Lowballing only exists if a character has shown better. Ulik hasn't shown better outside of Thor so I never low balled him.

Based on Thor being inconsistent, you are trying to just deny all of Ulik's positive showings, is that it?

Are you asking us to do what you are doing and concentrate on Ulik's lowest showings, while ignoring his better ones?

If this is your argument, just say it and move on. You aren't going to convince anybody else of this, so what is your purpose here?

Ulik, at his best, is on Thor's level. Period. They have slugged it out many, many times and labeling ALL of Thor's showings as "weak" is just silly.

Originally posted by h1a8
So Ulik is above Thing simply because of his fights with Classic Thor? Is Mongoose above Thing too?

But what if Thor was operating at bullet can harm me levels?

Why is Spider-man vs. Firelord PIS? Is it because of Spider-man's showings outside of firelord?

Ulik vs. a very inconsistent character doesn't mean much in itself. He must perform to those levels outside of Thor. Unfortunately he hasn't but rather he has performed worst outside of Thor. Lowballing only exists if a character has shown better. Ulik hasn't shown better outside of Thor so I never low balled him.

That you would even ask that shows just how desperate you are. You're done h1. You've been done actually.

The rest is just more debunked nonsense I already dealt with. I'm not going to repeat myself so you can just ignore it. If you want to believe Ulik is thing level be my guest. You're wrong and you know it but whatever.

Originally posted by Horrificus
What, exactly, are you trying to prove here anyway?

Based on Thor being inconsistent, you are trying to just deny all of Ulik's positive showings, is that it?

Are you asking us to do what you are doing and concentrate on Ulik's lowest showings, while ignoring his better ones?

If this is your argument, just say it and move on. You aren't going to convince anybody else of this, so what is your purpose here?

Ulik, at his best, is on Thor's level. Period. They have slugged it out many, many times and labeling ALL of Thor's showings as "weak" is just silly.

If Ulik has any showings outside of Thor beyond Thing or Colossus level then I concede and will happiliy have him above Thing and Colossus forever.

IMO, Ulik vs. Thing is 6/10 Uliks way
Ulik vs. Colossus is 5/10 split.