Whos good and whos evil?

Started by Blue_Hefner6 pages

good and evil are just points of view.

Not in SW.

Originally posted by queeq
Not in SW.

I don't think thats true.

In the PT, there is a lot of concern, especially voiced by Padme in ROTS, that questions the motives of the "good" side.

Charaters that flip, sides, say Anakin, have grey areas in the film "I'm lost."

When Lucas tries to force the story to his two-tone mold (like when Anakin sporadically kills Mace and then becomes an insta-Sith) people get confused and Lucas' logic doesn't really sit right with most people.

I fully believe that Lucas intended to make a two toned saga, however, I don't believe he absolutely achieved his goal.

Good and Evil are subjective... The Jedi think the Sith are evil, the Sith think the Jedi are evil... And I don't think there's any doubt that we are meant to side with the Jedi...

Originally posted by Alliance
I don't think thats true.

In the PT, there is a lot of concern, especially voiced by Padme in ROTS, that questions the motives of the "good" side.

Charaters that flip, sides, say Anakin, have grey areas in the film "I'm lost."

When Lucas tries to force the story to his two-tone mold (like when Anakin sporadically kills Mace and then becomes an insta-Sith) people get confused and Lucas' logic doesn't really sit right with most people.

I fully believe that Lucas intended to make a two toned saga, however, I don't believe he absolutely achieved his goal.

The reason Padme questions the motives is because the 'good' side is actually evil, remember? Pretty basic.

Sorry, but no, you are wrong. It is black and white in Star Wars, and simply your interpretation at fault.

Originally posted by Ushgarak

It is black and white in Star Wars

Originally posted by Ushgarak
This is Star Wars, no need to worry about shades of grey here. Good guys and bad guys; Dooku is a bad guy. He may be elegant, thoughtful and charming, but still bad.
Ever seen Wickerman, same scenario.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
The reason Padme questions the motives is because the 'good' side is actually evil, remember? Pretty basic.

Sorry, but no, you are wrong. It is black and white in Star Wars, and simply your interpretation at fault.

Wait...we are playing with perceptions of good and evil? That seems like shades of grey to me.

I never did get that...in AOTC when talking to Kenobi in prison...the whole "join me, and we can destroy the Sith" speech.

Was that indended to be a ploy (take Kenobi as an apprentice and overthrow Sidious), or did Dooku actually think he could overthrow Sidious and destroy the Sith (say if he also gave up his lordship)?

Ah, those Sith Lords, always scheming they are.

Because Qui-Gon was Dooku's padawan, Dooku thought Obi-Wan would be an excellent apprentice. He had a connection. He tried to lure Obi to join him.

At the time of the "join me" speech, Dooku had not revealed himself as a Sith lord. His persona was just a mere war profiteer and polical idealist. Dooku's intention was to try to lure Obi-Wan; not to destroy the Sith, but to become his apprentice and, perhaps later, reveal his Sithhood and destroy Sidious. But Dooku was tricking Obi-Wan and not revealing who he really was.

The whole Dooku speech confused the heck out of me when I first saw it, I didn't think Dooku was so evil until he started throwing the lightning around. As the great villain of Ep II, he's hard to top. It's the best kind of villain who makes you think he's your friend.

Originally posted by chinabing
Ah, those Sith Lords, always scheming they are.

Because Qui-Gon was Dooku's padawan, Dooku thought Obi-Wan would be an excellent apprentice. He had a connection. He tried to lure Obi to join him.

At the time of the "join me" speech, Dooku had not revealed himself as a Sith lord. His persona was just a mere war profiteer and polical idealist. Dooku's intention was to try to lure Obi-Wan; not to destroy the Sith, but to become his apprentice and, perhaps later, reveal his Sithhood and destroy Sidious. But Dooku was tricking Obi-Wan and not revealing who he really was.

The whole Dooku speech confused the heck out of me when I first saw it, I didn't think Dooku was so evil until he started throwing the lightning around. As the great villain of Ep II, he's hard to top. It's the best kind of villain who makes you think he's your friend.

I agree with the last part. Your rationale is logical...but its a side topic anyway.

All is black and whiet in SW.... USh for president.

Originally posted by Alliance
Wait...we are playing with perceptions of good and evil? That seems like shades of grey to me.

Why does that sound like shades of grey?

Padme assumed the Republic was good- white. But actually it was doing the bidding of the Sith- black. That is why she was worried.

Ush for King.

And to think if the Stormtroopers hadn't destroyed Uncle Ben's farm in Episode IV when we all first saw it, Luke would have enrolled in the Imperial Academy and we would have thought the Jedi were evil and cheered the Sith... 😑

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Dooku left the jedi order becuase he thought it was corrupt. He then joined the sith because of his ambitious desires to become better than everyone else. "I have become more powerful than any jedi". He also beecame a sith to help build a new Republic because he didnt think the old one was working. So from his point of view he was doing good, but in reality he was creating a war and killing millions of people.
exactly

Originally posted by Alliance
I never did get that...in AOTC when talking to Kenobi in prison...the whole "join me, and we can destroy the Sith" speech.

Was that indended to be a ploy (take Kenobi as an apprentice and overthrow Sidious), or did Dooku actually think he could overthrow Sidious and destroy the Sith (say if he also gave up his lordship)?

Did Lucas ever say anything on what he intended?

He tried to turn Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by General Kon-El
exactly

No, not exactly. That is simply his justification. The truth is that he is an evil, power-hungry mass murderer who helped perpetrate the greatest evil the Galaxy ever saw.

If you want to say that from a point of view he is good, then to paraphrase Obi-Wan, that point of view is lost.

Ush for Emperor.

Each side has diferent standarts so its har to say.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, not exactly. That is simply his justification. The truth is that he is an evil, power-hungry mass murderer who helped perpetrate the greatest evil the Galaxy ever saw.

If you want to say that from a point of view he is good, then to paraphrase Obi-Wan, that point of view is lost.

You don't think that people can do "evil" actions while trying to do "good."