How are all the characters developing?

ayeee my old thread dragged to the surface again.

I actually now think that Elizabeths lust will not be there at all in movie 3.

Also I'm scrapping my will turns evil thingamy bob..but he does turn darker..

Also my whole Tia trying to make Jack a champion thing is scrapped!

OKAY SORRY GUYS!! omg now that i've gotten started, I can't stop!!

THE MORE compelling reason I have for needing a drastic change on the part of Jack's personality is simply the narrative devices that have been used in the 2nd film.

At the end of the film, Jack is "killed" or swallowed up by the Kraken (although he goes down, very hotly, fighting) To me, this is SO CLEAR: it is a signal for some DRAMATIC, DRASTIC transformation of a major character. I apologize for making some arcane references but Wagner's opera tetralogy Ring ( heavily into norse and western mythos) shows this "Sleeping Beauty" element-- Brünnhilde is put to deep sleep inside flames by order of her father, Wotan. The hero Siegfried later awakes her and they (sort of) marry. But before he does, he must undress her from her armor and DISCOVER that she is a woman, her true identity!

This "transformative" sleep/death allows the hero/heroine to be significantly changed and also for their "true self" to be discovered by their lovers or family. This even shows up in STAR WARS again, which has many parallels to Pirates, where Han Solo the trickster rouge is carbonated, (deep, unconscious sleep) and is awakened by Leia. He is then completes his transformation by leaving his "smuggler" life to join Leia and to fully commit his life to the Cause they've all been fighting for... A HUGE CHANGE FROM THE MERCENARY "I only take orders from myself" Solo of the first SW movie.

LIKEWISE.. Jack has just been sent to his "sleep" I.E Death or purgatory or whatnot. This (should) symbolize a major psychological shift for his character-- when he is finally awakened/rescued, he must go through some kind of transformation. And what transformation is awaiting Jack? To finally accept his all-consuming love for Liz of course, and to modify his "free pirate life" to accomodate his new partner in crime!

Oh well! Viva la Sparrow and Drinks all around!

OOh vegaofthelyre where art thou! We need you, ya lil branbox! I miss her awesome posts 🙁

OH MY GOD! reading that again just made me realize something about Elizabeth too.

BUt then whats the transformation for Elizabeth?
Jack died for her, Im not saying Elizabeth should but she could sacrifice herself to save Jack. I think the only character death is Will, he wouldnt kill Elizabeth.

But Elizabeth has to go through something very dramatic in order for her to stop denying her feelings. I know the development with Will and Jack already has in the 2nd. But what about Liz?

I know!! I think she's gonna sacrifice herself to save Will and here she will make the choice to return to Jack...

It happened about 5 times in DMC the main one being the end..

she gives up being with Jack to be with Will even though she wants Jack the most in the world..then when she's with Will she realises just how MUCH she wants Jack..everything turns back to Jack with her all the time when she's with Will...she gives up the happy ending with will to return to Jack in DMC

She will return and go running back to Jack after she has "died" I bet.

Its going to be her major psychological shift me thinks.

So shes trying to [/b]force[/b] herself to stay with Will because its only fair. I dont think so, because shes playing with both of their feelings. Its better to come clean and be honest to say to Will I love Jack instead of pretending that she wants Will. And leaving Jack like on hold.

If you're right about liz sacrificing to Will as in like forcing herself to stay with Will, then thats when it hits her that its really Jack whom she wants.

Is it possible for the other way around? Liz sacrificing to Jack? Then Wil realising that Liz really wants this man, therefore turning Will in a much darker situation?This is the development in character that I believe we will see in Will and in Liz. DMC already has done its job with Jack.

I'm saying its a repeating pattern with her..she wants to save Will the most in the world so she does but when she's with Will there is an obvious emptiness that can only be filled by the man she wants most in the world...The situation then turns back to Jack. which is what we see at the end of DMC and we see it about 4 times before the end of DMC too.

she seems to realise a bit late every time 😂

Its going to be the moment where she finally realises that she only loves Will in like a motherly way IMO..she protects him like he's her son but Will is going to want to be a man and he wont want Liz to keep doing this for him I think.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
So shes trying to force[/b] herself to stay with Will because its only fair. I dont think so, because shes playing with both of their feelings. Its better to come clean and be honest to say to Will I love Jack instead of pretending that she wants Will. And leaving Jack like on hold. [/B]

wait let me rephrase that. I think you're right about Liz forcing herself to stay with will, LovelyOne. Im just saying as an opinion that Liz should not do that bc it would be playing both of these mens feelings. Shes acting as if she wants Will, and having Jack like on hold.

She wil, eventually, come to realize that she cannot force her heart to stay with WIll and forget about Jack. ITs Heart vs. Brain. She needs to have a little balnce between her heart and brain. She loves Jack-shes in love with him(heart) and it would be stupid not to stay with the man whom she loves and forces herself to stay with Will(brain)

Hi Girls,

Well you know what I was thinking? It sounds stupid but I'll go ahead. I think Jack is going to be the first to find out about Will's fate. I think he is gonna make Liz go back to Will. So she can marry him and find a way to stop him from his fate. I think Liz is not going to be aware about what Will will try to do. Well I don't know if she does or not, Lovelyone does Liz knows about Will? that he is gonna stab the heart or no? Because it would make sense a spoiler that Lovelyone posted, that said that Jack realises that it wasn't meant to be. I mean maybe Jack is gonna be the one that makes the decision in order to stop Will.

Back to what someone said, Liz doesn't want to save Will most in the world, although she does love him in her own way and is very protective of him. The movie makes it very clear that she wants Jack. Maybe that's more selfish, maybe it's not. But I think she will try to force herself to love Will even more than she's already trying to.

I think she wants to save Will the most in the world and thats about it..she loves him but she's more of a protective mother towards him..because once she had found the means to save him the compass pointed back at Jack the man. Not Will the man..will was off N/E(behind the blockage in the scene) on Davy's ship..the compass pointed S/W towards Jack...Will was there, present in the scene..and that compass did not point there 😂

remember it doesn't point to Jack for lust.(my interpretation of Ted's waffle analogy)

Originally posted by LovelyOne
I think she wants to save Will the most in the world and thats about it..she loves him but she's more of a protective mother towards him..because once she had found the means to save him the compass pointed back at Jack the man. Not Will the man..will was off N/E(behind the blockage in the scene) on Davy's ship..the compass pointed S/W towards Jack...Will was there, present in the scene..and that compass did not point there 😂

remember it doesn't point to Jack for lust.(my interpretation of Ted's waffle analogy)

YES YES YES... i think we're onto something big.

Remember in 1? When they first find Will? Listen to what Governor Swann says to Elizabeth:

"I want you to look after the boy. He'll be in your charge."

IMO, Elizabeth subconsciously took this command much more seriously than expected... and she is still trying to save/protect/ watch over him (like her line "I'm watching over you, Will"😉 even though her heart has moved into a different direction.

AND ALSO sorry forgot to say above.... Will's mother had just died. Suddenly he had no mother, and then he wakes up (think about the idea of imprinting) and the first thing he sees is someone who says "I'm watching over you."

Elizabeth, whose mother probably died way earlier, is used to "mothering" her somewhat eccentric father. so she naturally takes a mothering role, while Will naturally takes the role of needing that, ya know?

OMG kate thats so true! Great find there. I totally forgot about those lines.

this kind of behaviour will probably push Will away. she clings too tight to him I think..she is his superior and it will make him want to leave her all the more..He will go into active longing for something else.

It really reminds me of Tia/Jack

I've now started to think that it is not Will mirroring Davy/Calypso He's mirroring Jack/Tia's past relationship..

Where as Jack is slightly mirroring Davy/Calypso dont ya think?

Again I'm gonna come back to Teds Waffle analogy here. Skip the part about the compass pointing to him not for lust but because ther is something deeper there..but to the last point he makes:

Of course, if you've been hungry for a while, anticipating the most delicious meal you could ever imagine, and for some reason you couldn't partake of that meal, and then you found yourself in the presence of a very interesting waffle ... well, that doesn't mean that you suddenly think the aforementioned meal would not be delicious. It just means that, right then, that waffle seems pretty tempting.

Does that make you a terrible person?"

I find it interesting because Elizabeth is "STARVING" Will is there and she thinks she can return to him. She's perfectly fine with the thought of going back with him.

She was tempted to "taste Jack" but never got to the first time

The end..she actually ATE the waffle before eating the meal

Now what usually happens when a person eats the pudding before the meal? they SPOIL the meal for themselves dont they?

had she not eaten Jack then AWE may have ended totally different.

The waffle tastes much better than the meal..you eat that first the meals not gonna taste as good to you as you once thought it would.

I'm not talking about kissing someone..I'm talking about how the kiss made her feel (and yes its sexual as the kraken suggests moments later.) Where as Will's kiss lacked that...she didnt even kiss him he kissed her.

OOO so its like desert/cake

If you eat the chocolate first, it will spoil the feast/dinner.

Jack/chocolate
Will/feast

So if Liz tasted Jack in the first movie then it would have definitely spoiled the movie and the second wouldve been very different.

DMC would probably ended with Will, so it wouldnt make much sense.

lol ^^

she's been with will..but she hasn't actually eaten the meal yet (felt sexual)

then she cant have that meal

everything about that kiss with Jack suggested she had just awoken sexually..and it was BEFORE anything happened with dear William.

She's now spoiled the meal for herself because of what that Kiss with Jack did to her

Will cant compare to Jack in that way I can guarantee it..the meal cant compare with the dessert if you eat the dessert (most delicious thing) first.

That kissWill gave her was the usual, non tasty kiss..she hadnt eaten the meal there..she didnt react as if she enjoyed that kiss all that much.

she's just stuffed her face full of Jack and the meal is not appetising anymore lmao.

OO OO I GET IT NOW loool Scratch my recent post that was retarded.

Liz got the chocolate/jack. And it spoiled the feast/Will.

Now she dont want the feast. She wants to come back for the chocolate.

LMAO, You know that actually happened to me today. I baked a strawberry short cake today and I decided to have a big piece before dinner. Afterwards when I started eating my dinner I was so full, that I felt like throwing up. It's funny how we can relate everything that happens in our daily life with the freaking movie. 😂

umm..I actually just see this as Elizabeth not wanting to be sexual anymore..she's STUFFED..so we wont see it towards Jack in movie 3 and we wont see it with Will either...she stuffed her mouth and she's quite full and sexually satisfied at the moment..now she's gonna shift to someone who is rather..whats the word..modest? and not sexually forward I think.

..IMO having been sexually satisfied with Will before meeting Jack again would have been the one thing that could save Will/Liz..but it cant..all she has of him now is a mothers love..along with a few feelings of puppy love.

Originally posted by Mistypirate
LMAO, You know that actually happened to me today. I baked a strawberry short cake today and I decided to have a big piece before dinner. Afterwards when I started eating my dinner I was so full, that I felt like throwing up. It's funny how we can relate everything that happens in our daily life with the freaking movie. 😂

LMAO I know. And to think that the movie is based by an old silly disney ride lol.

LMAO^^

I remember reading what vegaofthelyre said in this thread about shape shifters in movies. Jack being one etc. I never got what it meant until recently.