This idea about Liz taking on more of a motherly role towards Will is really interesting, especially when you examine it the other way. Does Will look at Liz as a mother figure? On the surface, I think a lot of people would say no because he's equally protective of her and always wants to be her hero, but it's like the classic, "Mom, Mom, look at me! You're not looking!" He needs her approval and (for lack of a better word) worship. He needs to know that she has 100% faith in him and approves of what he does. So I think he does take on a son role a lot of the time.
What's especially strange is in the first one, Jack kind of became an anti-father figure for Will. Will finally had a mentor and someone to show him how things worked, even though neither wanted to be in those roles. So the trio is a little twisted in that the couple, or couple-to-be, Liz and Jack, both view Will as more of a responsibility and child than an actual peer.
9) THE HERO SIEZES THE SWORD/REWARD.Having survived death, beaten the dragon, slain the Minotaur, the
hero now takes possession of the treasure he's come seeking.
Sometimes it's a special weapon like a magic sword, or it may be a
token like the Grail or some elixer which can heal the wounded land.Sometimes the "sword" is knowledge and experience that leads to
greater understanding and a reconciliation with hostile forces.The hero may settle a conflict with his father or with his shadowy
nemesis. In RETURN OF THE JEDI, Luke is reconciled with both, as he
discovers that the dying Darth Vader is his father, and not such a
bad guy after all.The hero may also be reconciled with a woman. Often she is the
treasure he's come to win or rescue, and there is often a love scene
or sacred marriage at this point. Women in these stories (or men if
the hero is female) tend to be SHAPE-SHIFTERS. They appear to
change in form or age, reflecting the confusing and constantly
changing aspects of the opposite sex as seen from the hero's point
of view. The hero's supreme ordeal may grant him a better
understanding of women, leading to a reconciliation with the
opposite sex.
we see many of these things happen in that last scene on the pearl^ Not all but many of them. (again this is taken from that 12 step journey of a hero (Volger/Campbell's books)
1. Jack has slain the dragon because he came back for something
2. That something is now his reward (Elizabeth)
3. From this kiss he gains knowledge of how to reconcile with hostile forces, he knows that fighting them is 1 million times easier when you do it for someone you love. It gives you strength to be brave in times of danger. Which is what he will need in the new world or he will "perish" as said by Beckett. (step 10 he's gonna NEED this) We see him face the hell up to the Kraken like a crazy/brave mo fo...very confident in the face of danger. This has now solidified that knowledge into his brain.
4. Jack is reconciled with a woman, we saw the love scene..AND we see a sacred Marriage believe it or not. Where she chains him to the ship "MAKING" him treat HER like an obligation. Making him stay for her so she can be safe. He is literally TIED down by her and he is pretty OK with it I would say 😂
5. Onto the shape shifter. Elizabeth IS a shape shifter to Jack she has been since movie 1..She's gonna keep shape shifting we SEE her shape shift in that Pearl scene when she leaves..yet because he now HAS, hes decided to make her an obligation in his life..he;s faced up to what he feared and he understands the female now. So we are probably gonna see another shape shift from Elizabeth in movie 3. She's not gonna be sexually forward and overly mature..she's gonna probably resemble a good little virgin..and Jack is going to be prepared to treat her right. He'll know what to do and how to behave. He's now reconciled with the opposite sex. He fully understands her
now when it comes to ELIZABETH..she is still MILES behind Jack. Jack is a shape shifter to her too and she cant understand him so she's frigging terrified. He shifts almost every second and she has not reconciled herself with him yet..she has no real understanding of him just yet IMO...she thinks she does and it gets turned round on her head. for example she has a mounted faith in him then it turns round on her head..she then thinks he's a coward and he shifts again and comes back..this scared her beyond belief Jack also shifts and appears to change age constantly..somethimes he is very mature arond her..other times he acts like a child. She has the POTENTIAL to bring everything about Jack together and understand him perfectly and be reconciled with him..but its gonna take a while to happen.
We will probably see a similar scene with her and Jack much later on towards the end of AWE.
woah great thoughts everyone. wow wow wow.
willo, awesome. jack and liz as mom and dad! love it!!!! 🙂
and as far as the feeling full from the waffle.... its perfect. cause:
1. liz is skinny and needs to put on some weight. dessert is the best way to do that. 😄
2. Lovelyone, You mentioned she had been awoken physically. i think this line of development is extremely important, because it carries through her character developement.
in one, Elizabeth is still very innocent and naive. You can see this in her interaction with all the guys in her life. all the touching is innocent- nothing sexual at all.
we see Elizabeth at the beginning of 2, obviously ready to wake up physically, but she hasnt yet. You can see that in her interaction with Will--- its still awkward, forced, and not returned.
but she is clearly on the verge, and wanting, to be woken up. "if it werent for these bars..." (not to mention the implied symbolic bars in their relationship, of difference of personality, etc).
Jack is the one who wakes her up, pure and simple.
Thats huge. Thats incredibly meaningful. Once you have been awoken physically by someone, as your first time stepping into the world of sexual desire, you are always going to have this place in your soul for that person, IMO. i dont mean sex, i mean the first person you realize you want physically... ya know what im trying to say?
After experiencing the passion, the overwhelming physical release of that kiss, can she really be satisfied with Will's tame kisses? no way. never.
unless Will turns into a badass who will grab her and kiss the hell out of her, that ship is sunk.
Yeah, I don't really know what that means except for the fact that it proves both Jack and Liz for all their faults are caring people who have soft spots for others. Not that I'm suggesting they adopt Will or anything. He's kind of hit the teen years, metaphorically speaking, in that he doesn't want to listen or be controlled by either of them. And meeting his real dad makes him even more independent of them. Notice how short he is with Liz a lot of the time. That's come a long way from "Ms. Swann" and he's even more impatient with Jack.
Lol thanks kate misty chiki..awsome points made by you gys too Will, Kate everyone LD
This shape shifting thing is the single most important thing to notice I think..See she's crossed the first threshold by the end of DMC which is to get Jack back which is an acceptance of him in her life BUT she has still not reconciled with him..and whats worse he has just shape shifted again.
He;s come back significantly different towards women primarily her. And Its just gonna confuse her more.
I think the moment where she reconciles herself will be the moment like the one at the end of DMC. It should be the point where she realises she has reconciled herself with Jack. IMO its going to be after she's done somethign stupid again to save Will. Jack may show something that she now UNDERSTANTS when it comes to his emotions towards her.
Or it will be the emotional battle of giving up something old and familiar for something new and scary/exciting which is what Jack does in DMC..and Will come to think of it in AWE
Originally posted by Chiki Mina
Holy crap...kick ass theories. I feel small lol.My brain is now the size of a chihuahua's poop.
Don't get me wrong, you to bring in some really good kick ass theories as well. I mean everyone here does. That is why I like you guys so much. You really are intelligent and awesome people.
Its the Ordinary World Vs the special world for all 3 characters thats what the emotional battles are all about in their heads
the Ordinary world is the thing they appear to be most comfortable with
the Special World is the thing they are fearing
they all deny the call to the special world at first
they then all accept it and cross that first threshold of fear.
yet thats not the end of it, they still have tests, allies, problems to overcome before they can reconsile themselves with the enemy, the father, the woman, the man
and the end of the story the hero NEVER returns to the ordinary world without what they significantly battled to gain from the special world (step 9)
which is what makes me think this ending where Jack/Liz end up exactly the same and apart as they were to start with is a load of BS(pardom me)..no decent story does that..EVER
the hero NEVER returns to the ordinary world exactly the same kind of person they were before they set out on adventure.. They return with knowledge or with an elixir (or both) from the special world which they battlled to gain and its what they GET in step 9. Jack fought his own mind to gain Elizabeth, he fought the kraken for her. He frigging deserves to return home with her
So Jack should have Elizabeth by the end of it. I'm convinced there..I'm also convinced that Liz will have Jack
Elizabeth only JUST crosses that first threshild before movie 2 closes..only just
This Shapeshifter thing is still a little dizzy to me.
A shapeshifer is a person who cahnges throught situations. And its an internal change like emotions, character etc etc.
So this person faces some challenges in his path, that would force him to change and confront to that challenge.
I dont want to go on untill Im sure Im right lol..am I? lol
So Jack should have Elizabeth by the end of it. I'm convinced there..I'm also convinced that Liz will have Jack.
Definitely, they would definitely have each other by the end of AWE. It makes perfect sense. But if for some reason they can't be together physically. They will definitely be together emotionally. They will always have each other in their hearts and souls. But let's all hope this doesn't happen. So they can be together.
Originally posted by Chiki Mina
This Shapeshifter thing is still a little dizzy to me.A shapeshifer is a person who cahnges throught situations. And its an internal change like emotions, character etc etc.
So this person faces some challenges in his path, that would force him to change and confront to that challenge.
I dont want to go on untill Im sure Im right lol..am I? lol
they just shift in the eyes of the heroine or hero..the shape shifter is usually the woman they want most or the man they want most..they continully appear to shift in character, appearence, age and maturity it confuses the hero..and usually by step 9 they understand everything about the shape shifter and it all makes complete sense to them...they are at balance with them.
here's some wikipedia info on shapeshifting that quite goes along with your theory:
ballads, as in Child Ballad #44, The Twa Magicians or Farmer Weathersky, a magical chase occurs where the pursued endlessly takes on forms in an effort to shake off the pursuer, and the pursuer answers with other shape-shifting, as, a dove is answered with a hawk, and a hare with a greyhound. The pursued may finally succeed in escape or the pursuer in capturing. In Dapplegrim, this was set as a challenge; if the youth found the transformed princess twice, and hid from her twice, they would marry.
Fantasy transformation fiction is often mystical or dynamic, focusing on the change of the person's identity when transformed. This may be an analogy for learning to take a different perspective.