ROTS Darth Vader vs. Kyle Katarn

I think it would be close too, Advent.

What has Kyle done with force attacks, as of NJO, that puts him beyond Anakin? Anakin has stalemated Kenobi (who sent Greivous flying), beat up Durge with the force (throwing explosives at him, holding him against a wall, shooting shrapnel into him like bullets, and guiding a shuttle into a sun), beat up Asajj twice( once by tieing her up with huge metal wires, and another by just throwing her around along with debris) helped break through durasteel and hold back water that was most likely thousands of pounds of pressure (in his padawan days), brought down a building by yelling, crushed a room full of metallic medical supplies(right after his duel with Obi Wan, but before he received any Sith training, so, Anakin could do this too), and the energy from him dueling Obi Wan in a sparring match had all sorts of debris floating, made two super battle droids shoot each other using the force, along with a lot of others that don't come to mind right now.

GUYS STOP WITH THE FANBOY CRAP!
This is a thread about Kyle and Anakin/Vader, not about who's a fanboy and who's not!
Take the crap to a different thread! 😠

Originally posted by jollyjim311
What has Kyle done with force attacks, as of NJO, that puts him beyond Anakin?

Did you like...not read my post? He fought Jerec, who did receive training Sidious, Jocasta Nu, and Lord Vader. He was also capable of cutting people off from the Force: "Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to The Force", and was a fully trained Jedi. Qu Rahn had brought up the point that if Jerec were to get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi, his power would be described as such:

"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."

And Jerec did get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when fighting Kyle, see this quote: "Jerec turned, extended his hand, and triggered an explosion" which means he just casually stuck out of hand and an explosion happened. Kyle still defeated him even with no real training. And, Jerec was also viewed as one of the galaxy's biggest threats. Also, keep in mind that Kyle also got a nice little boost from the Valley of the Jedi afterwards, so while we may not know how much power - we should be able to gauge from Jerec's power, and Qu Rahn's thoughts. And against that opponent, who had that kind of power, Kyle was able to cut Jerec's connection to the Force off:

"The Jedi fell, struggled to stay aloft, and fell again. Something, or someone, had cut his access to the dark side of the Force..."

He cut Jerec off from the Force. Who, at that moment, would probably own Anakin with the Force merely by raising a hand. He was also able to remove a dark column of energy, which is basically like Force light. And he was also capable of summoning a protection barrier, described as a "protective cocoon". As well, I'm fairly certain Kyle is able to utilize the ability of Force lightning.

Anakin has stalemated Kenobi (who sent Greivous flying),

LMFAO! He sent someone with no Force defense flying. Now, tell me - isn't that the equivalent of Force pushing an inanimate object? That's really not impressive whatsoever. We know Shaak Ti force pushed Grievous through an entire wall. Is she now on par with Anakin? We know that Kyle Force pushed four people at one time:

So, that's the equivalent of pushing Grievous. Sending four flying. And he couldn't even successfully repel Obi-Wan's Force push. And we do know that Obi-Wan's Force defense is weak as all hell. While Dooku is a considerable Force user, we know that Obi-Wan - against Dooku - was owned in 13 seconds flat by the Force. Here's what it was described as in the ROTS novelization:

"...the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall, but Dooku didn't have time to enjoy it. "

As you can see, Dooku literally did just flick his wrist and Kenobi practically died. Now, since we know his Force defense isn't that good, what makes you think his offensive is? We know that Obi-Wan was almost sent to the Agricultural Corps because Qui-Gon had "overlooked Kenobi several times". Now, if Anakin can't even successfully stop Obi-Wan's attacks, what makes you think he can stop Kyle's? Who we do know is a formidable Force user.

beat up Durge with the force (throwing explosives at him, holding him against a wall, shooting shrapnel into him like bullets,and guiding a shuttle into a sun),

Wow. He threw some mines at him. That's totally hard, and shows a mastery of the Force, right? That's basic telekinesis. I'd be willing to bet Padawan Anakin could do that. I guess Obi-Wan is t3h f0rce g0d because he dropped a hunk of metal on some Magnaguards! And Darth Maul is ub3r for Force pushing a piece of scrap at a door.

beat up Asajj twice( once by tieing her up with huge metal wires, and another by just throwing her around along with debris) helped break through durasteel and hold back water that was most likely thousands of pounds of pressure (in his padawan days), brought down a building by yelling, crushed a room full of metallic medical supplies(right after his duel with Obi Wan, but before he received any Sith training, so, Anakin could do this too), and the energy from him dueling Obi Wan in a sparring match had all sorts of debris floating, made two super battle droids shoot each other using the force, along with a lot of others that don't come to mind right now. [/B]

Yes, now out of all that. There's only about two things that are even impressive, or don't demonstrate the ability of basic telekinesis. Great. Now, how does any of that put him on Kyle's rank again? I could just say Kyle cuts off his connection to the Force, or puts himself in a protection bubble while Anakin fails. Actually, in the ROTS novelization - Obi-Wan uses the Force to f*ck up Anakin's mechnical hand, if Obi-Wan is capable of that - I'm positive Katarn is, however, I doubt he'd even realize it was there.

In terms of pure lightsaber skill, Anakin loses. No question. As a damn neophyte he killed the Seven Dark Jedi. Now he's a fully trained Jedi Master? And Battlemaster of the NJO.

Out of curiosity, what comic is that Advent?

Probably, like, the only comic Kyle is featured in? It's in Star Wars Tales series, although, it's fully canonical - as issues 21 to 24 are canon.

I am not saying Anakin > Yoda, but it's weird. So, I went to the library, and after spending a good hour or so, I was bored and I saw the Revenge of the Sith novelization. So I read the introdcution of Anakin and it says that he was the most powerful member of the Order (this is not a direct quote!), or something like that? I only skimmed through it, so I'm not quite sure.

Do you guys know what the exact quote is, because if it is what I just said then Anakin > Yoda, which I HARDLY believe.

The exact quote is actually this:

"This is Anakin Skywalker:
The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.
He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it."

However, the very same novelization also says this about Yoda:

"It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi.
It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.
In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.
Finally, he saw the truth.
This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known . . . "

Now, Anakin can't be the "most powerful Jedi" if Yoda is the "most devastingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known". So, as we see that Anakin's quote is a hyperbolic one, although, I'm sure it has some merit to it. Aside from the fact he was stopped by Obi-Wan (so, he cannot be "unstoppable"😉, and the fact Yoda, Mace, and Sidous are close. Probably above anyways.

However, isn't that Yoda quote after Anakin turns Dark, thus making him the best since the former deserted.

"The most powerful of his generation. The fastest. The strongest"

Isn't the book canon??? Because I don't want to say Anakin > Yoda, but from what I see in the book it may be so...

The quote about Yoda is more fallible. It is Yoda coming to realise the 'truth' (perfect example of free indirect discourse). The quote about Anakin however is clearly hyperbolic.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
However, isn't that Yoda quote after Anakin turns Dark, thus making him the best since the former deserted.

"The most powerful of his generation. The fastest. The strongest"

Isn't the book canon??? Because I don't want to say Anakin > Yoda, but from what I see in the book it may be so...

Uh, what is your point? It says "the darkness had ever known", ergo spanning thousands of years prior. And guess who's included in those "thousands"? Anakin Skywalker. As he was a Jedi at one point, therefore Anakin's quote doesn't work. It doesn't matter if he was Dark or Light at that point, because at one point he was against the Darkside, so your reasonings fail.

And no one is saying the book isn't canon, it is. It just contradicts itself, or - the more likely case - it's a hyperbolic quote on Anakin's part. As we do know it already is. Darkside or Light, Sith or Jedi, he is a warrior. As a warrior, he was stopped by Obi-Wan Kenobi. Yoda, Mace, and Sidious could also all compare to him.

Anakin's quote is simply hyperbolic. Yoda > Anakin. End of Story. There is no chance of hope for Anakin being greater unless he went back in time, and killed Kenobi in his sleep.

Originally posted by Advent
The exact quote is actually this:

"This is Anakin Skywalker:
The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.
He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it."

However, the very [b]same novelization also says this about Yoda:

"It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi.
It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.
In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.
Finally, he saw the truth.
This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known . . . "

Now, Anakin can't be the "most powerful Jedi" if Yoda is the "most devastingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known". So, as we see that Anakin's quote is a hyperbolic one, although, I'm sure it has some merit to it. Aside from the fact he was stopped by Obi-Wan (so, he cannot be "unstoppable"😉, and the fact Yoda, Mace, and Sidous are close. Probably above anyways. [/B]

The Sith don't even consider Anakin an enemy.

^
No one cares what you say. The quote is hyperbolic, there's really nothing more to it. I've already proven that. And Anakin, as a Jedi, was a foe against darkness. It doesn't matter if Palpatine considers him an enemy or not. He was.

Originally posted by Jen'ari
The quote about Yoda is more fallible. It is Yoda coming to realise the 'truth' (perfect example of free indirect discourse). The quote about Anakin however is clearly hyperbolic.

No need to quote yourself, Nebaris. No one cared enough to read it the first time.

Oh, I thought people just missed it. 😛 The point is, it severely lowers the credibility of the statement.

Originally posted by Advent
^
No one cares what you say. The quote is hyperbolic, there's really nothing more to it. I've already proven that. And Anakin, as a Jedi, was a foe against darkness. It doesn't matter if Palpatine considers him an enemy or not. He was.

Sure thing bud. 👆

You know Advent, some times you can be just plain mean.

Originally posted by Advent
And Anakin, as a Jedi, was a foe against darkness. It doesn't matter if Palpatine considers him an enemy or not. He was.

Yes it does. Just because as a jede, the sith and 'darkness' were his enemy, it doesn't mean he was their enemy. Palpatine had plans for him, Anakin was no enemy to the sith.

Originally posted by Jen'ari
Yes it does. Just because as a jede, the sith and 'darkness' were his enemy, it doesn't mean he was their enemy. Palpatine had plans for him, Anakin was no enemy to the sith.

As a Jedi, he was to combat the "darkness", whether it be Dark Jedi, or Dark Acolytes, or Sith - whatever. He went to stop Dooku, he did. He stopped Asajj, she is part of the "darkness". Palpatine had plans for him, great. Is Palpatine the only runner for darkness? I don't think so.

No, but the sith is the epitome of darkness and all that is evil. Darth Sidious didn't see him as a foe, more of a tool that he would forge into the perfect sith. I wouldn't consider jedi Anakin a foe of the darkness, he was potentially their greatest ally - he would destroy the jedi and bring about a golden age for the sith. No contradiction Motoko.