EU Grievous & Dooku vs. ROTS Sidious & TPM Maul

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
[B]Anyways, is this Grievous pre-shuttle crash, or pre-crush? Pre-Shuttle gets owned by either one in 1 second, and then whoever was fighting him destroys Dooku.

This is CW GG. Before he gets force crushed by Mace. Also neither of the competitors would 'destroy' Dooku. Sidious would win with relarive ease. His force mastery is just too good for even the Count to handle. Maul would not beat Dooku, in any way shape or form.

Maul could hold and possibly beat Dooku in Lightsaber combat,

No he couldnt. Read Advents posts, they pretty much sum it up. Dooku has had more experience, more training and a better form. Maul is just too inexperienced to handle the Cuont. This is the same Count that went toe to toe with Yoda after wtf pwning both Anakin and Obi-Wan. Maul lost to TPM Obi-Wan. Point moot.

Force Powers are the determining factor,

No. Take away Dooku's force abilities and you have a more even match. But even then I would put Dooku above Maul.

course if Maul Fights Dooku, then Sidious mops up Grievous long before Maul dies, and then Dooku dies

Maul get wtf pwned by Dooku while GG gets pwned by Sidious. The remaining pair fight and Sidious eventually comes out on top. I doubt GG will lose against Sidious before Maul loses against Dooku.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
This is CW GG. Before he gets force crushed by Mace. Also neither of the competitors would 'destroy' Dooku. Sidious would win with relarive ease. His force mastery is just too good for even the Count to handle. Maul would not beat Dooku, in any way shape or form.

No he couldnt. Read Advents posts, they pretty much sum it up. Dooku has had more experience, more training and a better form. Maul is just too inexperienced to handle the Cuont. This is the same Count that went toe to toe with Yoda after wtf pwning both Anakin and Obi-Wan. Maul lost to TPM Obi-Wan. Point moot.

No. Take away Dooku's force abilities and you have a more even match. But even then I would put Dooku above Maul.

Maul get wtf pwned by Dooku while GG gets pwned by Sidious. The remaining pair fight and Sidious eventually comes out on top. I doubt GG will lose against Sidious before Maul loses against Dooku.

Dooku would be fighting both right after Grievous dies, Maul lasts that long. Darth Maul is capable of taking Anakin/Obi-Wan from AOTC, Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan TPM were better. Maul lost because he was an overconfident moron at the last few seconds, instead of finishing it, he toyed with him, and got killed, TPM Obi lost. Maul probably can't beat Count Dooku, but he can last a long while.

With no Force Powers, Count Dooku would break his back upon moving, the old man that he is. Dooku's Force Grip can be Force Pushed, Lightning can possibly be blocked. I believe someone said Maul knew Grip, so Dooku would have to fight that if it was true. The Lightsaber fight would be very even. He beat Qui-Gon who at the time of TPM, was on par with Mace Windu

Maul doesn't get WTF PWNED, or PWNED at all, just loses. Grievous is too weak against Force Powers, and loses in however long it takes to do a full Crush. Maul lasts long enough for Sids to bail him out

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Darth Maul is capable of taking Anakin/Obi-Wan from AOTC, Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan TPM were better.

Proof? You are probably right but I dont see how it aids your argument. Dooku did wtf pwn AOTC Kenobi and Skywalker. I am also quite sure he would pwn TPM Jinn and Kenobi as well. we know how easily he can pwn Kenobi at AOTC and ROTS level. TPM Kenobi wont be difficult. Also Jinn was Dooku's apprentice, the Count knows how he fights and knows how to effectively beat him. The point is whatever Maul can do Dooku can do, and to a better standard.

Maul lost because he was an overconfident moron at the last few seconds, instead of finishing it, he toyed with him, and got killed, TPM Obi lost.

Fair enough. But arrogance is part of his nature. Whats to say he wont get arrogant in every fight he participates in.

Maul probably can't beat Count Dooku, but he can last a long while.

I disagree.

With no Force Powers, Count Dooku would break his back upon moving, the old man that he is.

Wtf. Dooku doesnt use the force to walk around. He is not a cripple. His flips etc use the force but not his day to day activity.

Dooku's Force Grip can be Force Pushed, Lightning can possibly be blocked. I believe someone said Maul knew Grip, so Dooku would have to fight that if it was true.

When I said Dooku couldnt use the force I meant offensive force powers eg lightning. I didnt mean he couldnt use the force together. He could still duel like he has the force aiding him.

The Lightsaber fight would be very even. He beat Qui-Gon who at the time of TPM, was on par with Mace Windu

They can both beat Qui-Gon. Point moot.

Maul doesn't get WTF PWNED, or PWNED at all, just loses.

I disagree.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Fair enough. But arrogance is part of his nature. Whats to say he wont get arrogant in every fight he participates in.

Because he doesn't show arrogance unless it's someone he:

a.) knows he can beat.
b.) has beaten (on verge of).

There's nothing to suggest Maul would be arrogant, as Dooku clearly is his superior in this fight, but there's also nothing to suggest he'd be arrogant against any opponent that is close to him in terms of skill, or at least, decent. He didn't mess around with Qui-Gon for a reason we can only presume. He f*cked with Obi-Wan because Kenobi was a noob, and he did have him beat.

Actually, Obi-Wan was a newb, not a noob. he played like a pro, but Maul was simply at two high a level.

Originally posted by Advent
Because he doesn't show arrogance unless it's someone he:

a.) knows he can beat.
b.) has beaten (on verge of).

There's nothing to suggest Maul would be arrogant, as Dooku clearly is his superior in this fight, but there's also nothing to suggest he'd be arrogant against any opponent that is close to him in terms of skill, or at least, decent. He didn't mess around with Qui-Gon for a reason we can only presume. He f*cked with Obi-Wan because Kenobi was a noob, and he did have him beat.

Fair enough. But that means he will either A) lose against an opponent who is better than him e.g Dooku or B) beat someone (or as good as) but lose anyway because of his overconfidence.

Originally posted by Coleman Trebor
Actually, Obi-Wan was a newb, not a noob. he played like a pro, but Maul was simply at two high a level.

To me, they are the same thing. I am not an internet linguistics expert. Sorry!

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Fair enough. But that means he will either A) lose against an opponent who is better than him e.g Dooku or

Lol. Obviously he'll lose if they are better than him on paper.

B) beat someone (or as good as) but lose anyway because of his overconfidence.

If we made a versus match of Kenobi vs. Maul, Maul would win. Maul was only acting like an arrogant jackass because Kenobi was helpless. And luckily enough, there was another saber to grab, and also something to grab onto.

We really shouldn't factor Maul's arrogance in fights, as it really has no bearing on paper. In the movie, yes, but we do things on paper. In any case, Dooku is just as - if not more - arrogant than Maul, lol.

Of course, none of this changes the fact Dooku > Maul.

Of course, none of this changes the fact Dooku > Maul.

Someone is actually arguing otherwise?

LOL

Originally posted by Advent
If we made a versus match of Kenobi vs. Maul, Maul would win. Maul was only acting like an arrogant jackass because Kenobi was helpless. And luckily enough, there was another saber to grab, and also something to grab onto.

True. I guess it depends if Maul is arrogant in every fight, or if that was just a one off.

In any case, Dooku is just as - if not more - arrogant than Maul, lol.

Lol, thats what I love about him. Although his arrogance doesnt put him at risk like Mauls did.

Of course, none of this changes the fact Dooku > Maul. [/B]

Amen.

Who said Maul was better than Dooku? I said he could last against him, and then Sids would come WTF PWN Dooku after sipping his tea and Force Crushing Grievous.

Maul only has to last like 10 Seconds tops, he can do that by using a Force Push, and his fancy Lightsaber skills, and then Sidious comes to pwn Dooku

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Who said Maul was better than Dooku?

Well, gee, let's see here - didn't you just say Maul was better than Dooku in saber combat? And that Dooku only wins if he gets a Force power in? Sorry to say, but Dooku > Maul in terms of pure saber handling.

Originally posted by Advent
Well, gee, let's see here - didn't you just say Maul was better than Dooku in saber combat? And that Dooku only wins if he gets a Force power in? Sorry to say, but Dooku > Maul in terms of pure saber handling.

Age, speed, strength and Juyo give him superior ability, that does not say that Maul is better than Dooku, Force Powers are what counts here, and Dooku can win in this department

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Age, speed, strength and Juyo give him superior ability,

Already proved forms don't matter much. The "ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat". And we do know that Count Dooku is able to call upon the Force so that "the weight of his years drop away". And since when does age matter when dealing with the top dogs of the PT? I suppose Obi-Wan > Yoda because Yoda is about 812 years older then? Of course not. You're clearly missing the fact that Dooku has the skill needed. Skill. It's a key ingredient in winning. Something Dooku has more of compared to Maul. And while Maul has the advantages of physical, it's not anything that will be able to stop Dooku. We do know Maul's saber was sliced in half by a padawan. A padawan. Whether or not Kenobi is better, or was pissed off - it doesn't matter. He got put into a dangerous position. Dooku against an enraged Kenobi? Uh, Kenobi would die in 3 seconds flat.

What makes you think Maul is a better duelist than a man who is described as being "one of the most powerful Jedi ever", as the direct quote does say twenty five thousand year history. And an "even greater Sith"?

We know Dooku is able to defeat General Grievous in combat (anyone who reads Dark Rendezvous knows that, and watched the CW cartoons). He is simply a lightsaber aficionado. Unless Maul > Grievous in lightsaber combat, how's Maul have a chance? Can Maul even hope to be able to hold off Yoda even after fighting AOTC Kenobi, and Anakin? I'd submit not.

that does not say that Maul is better than Dooku, Force Powers are what counts here, and Dooku can win in this department

He can win in saber combat too, your point?