LOL great Post!!
yes he chose the Jar of dirt again and he got one MOTHER of a wakeup call to STOP LOVING MATERIAL OBJECTS YOU IDIOT!..they cant make you brave in times of DANGER!
he almost runs after Liz in a time of danger (black spot) but instead he makes a decision..and this decision is what wakes him the hell up to Elizabeth and how much more she means to him later on
Jar of dirt BETRAYS JACK
also ive just realised;
Elizabeth Swann: But - seeing as you're a good man I know you will *never* put me in a position that would compromise my honor.
[Jack stares in horror as the black spot boils back into view on his hand, Elizabeth doesn't notice]
Elizabeth Swann: I'm proud of you, Jack.
Gibbs: Land ho!
Jack Sparrow: I want my jar of dirt.
The thoery has GOT to work....because WHY would JACk need his dirt if he is going ON LAND?!!!!
Was it not to protect him whilst at sea!?!?!?!
Therefore he MUST have been troubled by what their conversation transpired to....because he instantly wanted the jar of dirt (which is materialistic of his pirate 'heritage' freedom) even though they were going on land....
Freedom is the weakness of Jack Sparrow...He SAYS he's free...but He is only truly free when he is around Elizabeth....
Originally posted by katelovespirate
oh bother. lizzie lizzie lizzie. we all KNOW for SURE what you should do, so take our advice and do it.i really, really think they might put a sex scene in 3. obviously not a real one, but a fade out during an intense kiss, wake up next to each other one.
they have been going on and on with all their sexual references, and all that. its high time they concluded them, ya know?
This is a great point...she has all kinds of intense sexual moments with Jack, where he is coming onto her and she responds, likewise by the time the curiosity scene rolls around...she starts off shy and giddy, then frustrated, then starts flirting herself...and then kisses him in their final scene....
There is only one sexually implied scene with Will...when she says, "If it weren't for these bars, I'd have you already." Did anybody else notice...I think Will's a little turned off by her boldness...he doesn't even kiss her bye there.....now if she had said that line to Jack..he may have broken down the bars so she could "have him".... 😆
Wow, theories are running abound here.....all of them sound great and make lots of sense....I love all the theories and clues and symbolisms that point to a Jack and Liz relationship...that's why I had started that thread "All Clues Point to Jack and Liz"....but we've abandon that one and moved on to others....it's funny how everytime we start a new thread...it always comes back to this...Why Disney want us to take notice of the Jack/Liz relationship.....
I do believe that Jack and Elizabeth are attracted to each other...both are in denial...him...because he thinks a relationship with Liz will clash with his pirate life and his "freedom" (which we now know isn't all that free) and her, because she thinks she is suppose to love Will and is scared to love Jack (maybe she is afraid to love him because she thinks if she gives in he may hurt her)...but when he comes back at the end - basically sacrifices his freedom for hers and the others - she now realizes he is a good man...and now she is really scared. We have to remember she is a young girl...she does act without thinking...on that selfish impulse. She didn't have to kiss Jack..she wanted to kiss Jack.. she may have wanted to see if he would kiss her back...and when he did she knew he wanted her...not just for sex but as a soulmate..she's not ready to face that yet.
Every line in this movie uttered by Elizabeth and Jack have very underlying meanings. T. Maria you have pointed out some very good ones....
As I said....When Liz first shows up on the Pearl....We now know (thanks to Ted) that Jack has been thinking about Elizabeth (and from the "vex" clues given by Gibbs and Tia) - so it's no surprise that he starts flirting with her in a very sexual manner just as she appears "it should be a dress or nothing, I happen to have no dress in my cabin." (gosh, I would love to see you naked)....then in the Compass conversation,
"It points to the thing (quick once over of Elizabeth by Jack's sexy chocolate brown eyes) you want most in this world." She is so flustered by him...she can't help having that shy little smirk on her face..."Jack, are you telling the truth?"....i LOVE THE WAY HE IS LOOKING AT HER RIGHT AFTER HE SAYS MR. GIBBS WE HAVE OUR HEADING...and then does that little prance, a sweep of the arm, invites her onto the Black Pearl, "Miss Swann"...then of course, the Persuade Me Scene...he takes his flirting a step further "Persuade Me." "you do know will taught me how to handle a sword." He kind of breathes in here like "oh, man does she know what she is doing to me" ...then turns around and says, "As I said, Persuade Me"....the way he looks at her..he wants to jump her bones right then and there, and she gets that little frustrated look and walks off...and he grunts like "Hmmm.That girl, she turns me on"....and then she's all dreamy and smiling thinking about what Jack meant by "persuade me, a dress or nothing"...Norrington notices and calls her out on it and she is embarrased because Norrington caught her daydreaming about Jack....then the compass points to Jack....
She is trouble on the steps (her wedding dress has just sunk to the bottom of the ocean :bye, bye Will..hello Jack)....Up walks Jack and on a whim actually offers her marriage....then they have the fabulous curiosity speech..."Oh, I have faith in you." ELizabeth believes in Jack. No one else does (except Gibbs, really). Then they almost Kiss.. Liz is now responding to Jack's flirting and she flirts back herself. Then on the island the compass points at Jack yet again, now she is frustrated again...she's suppose to want to find Will...not want Jack.
He shows back up at the Pearl (while the Kracken is attacking - when he could have easily made it to land, safe and sound)...he has sacrificed his precious freedom to return for Liz and the others...then he says, "Abandon ship, into the long boat"....Gibbs: "Jack, the Pearl?" (because Gibbs knows that the Pearl has been everything Jack has ever wanted...he just can't believe Jack is giving up the Pearl), and Jack responds "She's ONLY A SHIP, mate." (yes, this is the most significant sign in the movie that Jack has changed...he has let go his material objects, they no longer bring him the fullfillment and happiness it seeks...what does is standing right in front of him)..."jack, right, we have to head for Land." Look how they look at each other...he came back for her, sacrificed his freedom for her - now she is really scared...she kisses Jack and Jack responds...very hot...He is full of admiration...she has acted very piratey.....I think she is upset....she is in disbelief as to what she has done when they are at Tia's cabin...she may be thinking back to that kiss...I think it backfired on her...I think she thought it wasn't going to mean anything...but now she can't get it off her mind and the way jack responded proved he loves her or at the very least wants her for more than just a roll in the hay..
I'll shut up ...this is a very long post and we are all basically saying the same things...just wanted to talk and get it off my chest....
LoveThemTigers, great post!!
The thing that i find admirable about elizabeth is the fact that EVEN THOUGH she knows that many of the stories about jack are probably not real (seems as though she has already found out about on of them in POTC1) She still "Has faith" in him...
You are very right Lovethemtigers, besides elizabeth Gibbs is the only other person to truly believe in him...and these are the only two character to get remotely close to the man that jack really is...he has to hide himself to be called a 'pirate', because pirats are not supposed to be bold and brave and have a conscience?
By the end of 2 we know that Jack has a conscience...we know that he is sacrificing his own freedom for the people who have been through everything with him.....and above all, we know that even though he is losing his freedom in staying behind for evreyone else...he is also being set free by elizabeth in another way...
I think the line; "He was a good man" is SOOOOOOOOO important!
A. The word 'good' never goes with 'Pirate'
B. That sentence shows admiration
C. She knew that he had done it because she told him he would
It will become apparent in 3 just how significant everything is...everything the writers will choose to display within the story, they will do it for a reason...
Theres a big reason for Jack and Elizabeth...and i for one cannot wait to see what that reason is !!!!
Ok- So I am a total dumb butt. I have a few ideas about the ending, and anyone can tell that sparks are flying between Jack and Elizabeth- I thought their playfullness on the island in the first one was a foreshadowing of some romance to come. They have good chemistry- not to mention that Jack brings out the dark side in her- a dark side that I think many women have- that is never unleashed.
BUT- please explain this to me- she kisses him with such emotion and longing, but then chains him- leaving him to quite possibly DIE??? How can this mean she loves him? I mean- I think against her own good judgement she does love him, but how could she chain him- leaving him there for death?
Please explain.
excelent post LTT (can I call you LTT for short?) lol
and T.Maria..i thought that too..you can see how much it means to him when she says that she still has faith in him to be brave for her..thats just gotta mean the world to him.
---------------------------------
Basically they have explained to us what is actually going on in Jacks and Liz minds so far...I dont think they are giving anything away yet basically its:
Jack has figured out what he wants..and its to be tied down to Lizzie
and Liz..
WHO THE HECK KNOWS??...they said that you can see why Liz does this to him..but it raises up two possibilities:
1. She has chosen Will
2. She has chosen Jack
LMAO
so the question is.who do you actually want woman?
So yeah lol...they aren't giving much away on the Liz front..because I honestly think she has no clue herself..but on the Jack front..its already clear as day..he wants Elizabeth
Originally posted by ottergirl25
Ok- So I am a total dumb butt. I have a few ideas about the ending, and anyone can tell that sparks are flying between Jack and Elizabeth- I thought their playfullness on the island in the first one was a foreshadowing of some romance to come. They have good chemistry- not to mention that Jack brings out the dark side in her- a dark side that I think many women have- that is never unleashed.BUT- please explain this to me- she kisses him with such emotion and longing, but then chains him- leaving him to quite possibly DIE??? How can this mean she loves him? I mean- I think against her own good judgement she does love him, but how could she chain him- leaving him there for death?
Please explain.
well..its hard to tell..you would think it was cold hearted ..but she actually seemed to be finding it very hard to leave him there to die..he had to basically make her go by waking her up a little bit "pirate"..she alsmost kissed him again too...
liz is a closed book. LOL. but i have a theory thats where all the naked lizzie jokes are going- she is finally going to strip down and BE HONEST and OBVIOUS about what she wants.
we are finally going to see her heart.
hopefully anyways. LOL.
I think we talked about Liz chaining Jack up NOT because she wanted him dead, but for a combination of reasons which include
-she gave in to her desire, and wanted to put her desire (which frightened her) as far away as possible
-she wanted to save the crew, and prove to herself she still loves Will (but does she? we dont know)
-she saw Jack's heart, which was more heroic than even he realized. she wanted to help him be the man that he WAS truly.
-she wanted to prove to him she was a pirate. he had come back to save her, fulfilling her prediction that he would come over to her side, and then she had to return the favor.
but we don't know what the biggest reason was. GRRRRR lol
I agree with you^^ this woman is so irritating😂
To be honest..I cant imagine Liz actually doing that just to prove that she has chosen Will..if she was SO certain that she was meant to be wih Will..then she wouldn't have felt the need to even remove Jack in the first place..if he wasnt such a tempting threat.
She may have done it to prove to herself that she doesnt need Jack..the very notion of doing that to him "to proove she loves will" tells us that she really does want Jack...but is terrified of the thought..
the writers have said that she does it to "punish jack for betraying Will"
I honestly think this has a double meaning..its not what everyone would think it was at first glance..the very theme of the story and what happens with the Kraken seconds later shows us what "punish jack" really means..she was getting her own little selfish/sexual tension out of "punishing Jack"..you know what I mean lol
her lust got the better of her.
I agree with you..when I read that I was like?? OOOKKKKK so everything I just saw there between Jack and Liz was totally false..the way she tries to kiss him again etc..?
I have a feeling the writers are trying to confuse the very stupid and gullible lol
even when I saw that the first time I didnt see it as her punishing Jack for betraying Will...I saw it as Liz finally giving into the temptation of Jack..and removing the temptation..that was the very FIRST time i saw it too..before all of our shipping 😂
Actually..when you look at the ending..her reason for "doing it" is pretty obvious..
its the one that concludes the curiosity scene
she was basically saying "the only way you can ever have me..is if YOU do the right thing for me then you will gain the rewards that follow(me)"
and what do we see happen?
after he does the right thing for her..she basically gives herself to him by becoming HIS little pirate
and she is the one who literally ties him down at the end.
Oh wow- I am truly enjoying this thread. I wish I owned the movie so I could watch that kiss scene between Jack and Liz again- it was exciting!
Ok- here is a question/comment. The voodoo/hoohoo woman (think I spelled that wrong) why in the world did they even go back to her hut if they did not think there was SOME way to save Jack? Liz looked very distraught in that final scene. I personally think she feels strong regret over leaving Jack to the Kraken; she knows her feelings for him are strong- and she is totally confused. NOW she realizes she made a mistake- and she wants to find a way to save him.
The question is... OMG how can we wait until next Spring!!!??? What happens once they find him??? Can you imagine the tension, the emotion... the fear and longing between all three of them? *whew*
I am a big fan of the movie version of Phantom of the Opera from 2004. There is thins totally wonderful scene where Christine and Phantom are performing on stage together- it is not supposed to be Phantom, he is setting a trap for her. Anyway, her love, Raoul, is watching from a box seat. The drama unfolds, and as soon as Phantom comes on stage- he mesmerizes Christine- it is totally evident that she is massively attracted to him, even though she "should not be." He is dark, bad, but oh so charming. Raoul looks on- and there is such hurt in his eyes. He can tell the love of his life is being seduced before his very eyes... and I think that even though she ends up with Raoul in the end (Phantom wants her, but can not bear to lead her into a life of solitude with him- so he send her off ith Raoul)- Raoul will always remember the manner in which Christine responded to the Phantom- and I do not think she, her body and mind, would ever respond to Raoul in that same primal sensual manner.
Ok- so the reason I say this is because, that scene when Liz kisses Jack, and Will sees it all- his heart is breaking. Will is like Raoul- he is all "light and good, sweet and wonderful." No matter the reason why she kisses Jack- she DID it- she kissed him with an emotion and longing that can not be denied. Even in the end, if Liz chooses Will- or what if JACK chooses for her to be with Will? (as Phantom did with Christine) Will will always and forever remember that kiss between the woman he loves and a rackish Captain Jack Sparrow. I don't think Will will ever illicit the same... hunger from Liz that Jack does. I just think that kiss will haunt all three of them forever- no matter if she chained him up- she was fighting her emotions, and she failed miserably- she is falling in love with him. She could have kissed Jack, backed off and laughed sinisterly after cuffing him- but she did not. She hated what she felt she had to do, and she wanted to kiss him again! She obviously loves Will also- but they are two very different loves. Warm safe love versus dark exciting love/lust.
Sorry to ramble. You know, many many people hated Phantom 2004, but the people who loved it- LOVED it. They posted like this (still do) and discussed scenes in depth. The people who did not appreciate, or disliked, Dead Man's Chest- I simply think they just do not "get it." There is much more to this film than meets the eye.