90 Minutes in Heaven

Originally posted by crazy
So JIA, what about people who have these kind of ordeals but convert to other religions, that is all lies right because it is not Christianity.

Let me answer your question with a question. How many addresses to your home is there? How many people share your fingerprint? How many biological mothers do you have? How many people have your social security number? The answer to each of these questions should suggest uniqueness, singularity, or individuality (i.e., things that are either limited or unique to you and those with whom you have to do). Your address is unique to your home. No other residence has your address and leads directly to your home. You are the only one in this world with the fingerprint that you have. There are perhaps more than six billion people on this planet and yet not one of them has your unique fingerprint. The woman who carried you in her womb and brought you into the world is the only woman who can affirm to be your biological mother (truthfully). Your social security number is specific to you, there isn't another person alive with your social security (legally). I said all that to say this: just as all of these things connote singularity, the truth concerning who the true God is also implies singularity. There is only one true God. All of the innumerable gods and religions of this world do not lead to the same place. Well, why not you ask? Revert to the line of questions that I asked you at the outset of this post. Do you see the singularity in the examples that I gave. There is uniqueness in each analogy. But yet there is only one address to your home, one person with your fingerprint (you), you have one, true biological mother, and you are the only one with your social security number. Similarly, there is only one, true God and path to God. There is no difference. Just because there are many religions does not validate those systems of belief. There may be many celebrity look-a-likes but the person who they are masquerading as is the true celebrity. So, yes although people may convert to other religions they are simply mislead (but earnestly sincere) people. This is not a putdown, it is an observation. I encourage you to go back and re-read the examples at the top as a review in support of what I have just written concerning the reality of there only being one true God and system of beliefs in spite of the many that exist.

Yes, but there are cases - Islam, Hinduism, different branches of Catholicism where people claimed to have had NDE that have confirmed their faith. Or convinced them they were following the wrong one and converted to the one they experienced in the NDE.

Now, if we are to believe this chappy died, went to heaven for 90 minutes, and woke up again fine, then shouldn't we be believing the one about another chappy who died or nearly did and saw Ganesh in the after life before being brought back - the obstacle removed?

Your whole "one true address is flawed" - if people were only experiencing one type of NDE then it would count. However when people are experiencing different types it is impossible to know who to believe, and like always it does not solve the matter by saying "The answer is the ones with God are real, because he is the true path, the Bible says so." Either all must be considered potentially valid or none can.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Let me answer your question with a question.

Another question is not an answer at all. I believe you don't really have any answers.

Originally posted by Robtard
I wouldn't know if he skipped a beat and the story isn't that specific to conclude if he did or didn't really, maybe time stands still when you die and what seemed to him like a nanosecond, a decade or and eon passed. Possible? Also, if we don't "skip a beat", then why all the near death or temporary death experiences where people travel through tunnels of light and lapse in time before they actually reach heaven as you have posted yourself?

What I also want to know is, why did the rich man suddnely die? I understand that the beggar was malnourished and had some sort of sickness (sores could equate bubonic plague) so his death is of no surprise, but why did the rich man die? Solely because he was rich and didn't give? If so, there would hardly be any rich people in the world, most rich people do not give to charity all they could.

That's fine that you get all your info from the Bible, but I promise you there are people who have had near death experiences and not experienced a trip to Heaven or Hell, what makes why they say more or less credible?

The Bible does not indicate that the rich man "suddenly" died. It just let's us know that at some point in his life that he did die. It could have happened decades later. Realize this: there is no time in eternity (which applies to the spiritual world). Lazarus could have been dead for 50 years because their is no time in eternity.

As far as your conjecture as to the rich man's death somehow relating to his net worth, it is not wise to read into the text what is not there. God does not reveal to us "why" the rich man died, so doesn't it make since to just leave it at that?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Bible does not indicate that the rich man "suddenly" died. It just let's us know that at some point in his life that he did die. It could have happened decades later. Realize this: there is no time in eternity (which applies to the spiritual world). Lazarus could have been dead for 50 years because their is no time in eternity.

As far as your conjecture as to the rich man's death somehow relating to his net worth, it is not wise to read into the text what is not there. God does not reveal to us "why" the rich man died, so doesn't it make since to just leave it at that?

It could just be a story.

It IS a story...such is all mythology.

And of course that was the Biblical way of getting the message across - it was told in story form - One day this happened and then Jesus did this and the moral of this tale is.

Yes, all stories.

Hmm... I thought this would be about some Highschool game involving a boy, a girl and a closet. I'm thoroughly disappointed.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Hmm... I thought this would be about some Highschool game involving a boy, a girl and a closet. I'm thoroughly disappointed.

For 90 minutes? Our version only laster for 50 minutes. (which was how long the lunch break was.)......

..... Unless of course one was unavoidably detained and missed a little class.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
For 90 minutes? Our version only laster for 50 minutes. (which was how long the lunch break was.)......

..... Unless of course one was unavoidably detained and missed a little class.

I've never seen the phrase "unavoidably detained" made so salacious.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I suppose 90 minutes is a bit of a stretch, especially for teens.

I've never seen the phrase "unavoidably detained" made so salacious.

Don't worry, I intended the phrase to have such an effect. 😉

Is it just me or is the High School make-out (and/or more) game a much more interesting topic than whatever the actual intended topic is?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Is it just me or is the High School make-out (and/or more) game a much more interesting topic than whatever the actual intended topic is?

That is a resounding... yes. Maybe because it is a fun topic opposed to the irrationality the permeates the real one.

JIA's literally born again Christian? Personally I would have thought it funny if he had woken up 90 minutes later in the Morgue and gone "I've just had the most amazing experience.... oh my god, I can see my own spleen!!!!!"

90 minutes being unavoidable detained in the morgue. Now there's one for the psychiatrist.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
90 minutes being unavoidable detained in the morgue. Now there's one for the psychiatrist.

Or forensics. Depending on the situation.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Bible does not indicate that the rich man "suddenly" died. It just let's us know that at some point in his life that he did die. It could have happened decades later. Realize this: there is no time in eternity (which applies to the spiritual world). Lazarus could have been dead for 50 years because their is no time in eternity.

As far as your conjecture as to the rich man's death somehow relating to his net worth, it is not wise to read into the text what is not there. God does not reveal to us "why" the rich man died, so doesn't it make since to just leave it at that?

Now you're talking crazier than usual... You said yourself that "you don not skip a beat when you die, you simply change dimensions" you used the Bible story to corroborate this, "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom". Good Lord, we have a conundrum! Did the beggar die and Abraham held him in bosom for years maybe decades until the rich man died, waiting years in the homo-erotic pose just so the rich man could see what he will be missing for eternity?

Originally posted by Robtard
Now you're talking crazier than usual... You said yourself that "you don not skip a beat when you die, you simply change dimensions" you used the Bible story to corroborate this, "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom". Good Lord, we have a conundrum! Did the beggar die and Abraham held him in bosom for years maybe decades until the rich man died, waiting years in the homo-erotic pose just so the rich man could see what he will be missing for eternity?

Hehehe. It seems odd, I think it would be pretty unpleasant to be in heaven and being able to see in the distance Hell. I mean really.

But you are right, nothing in those to extracts in anyway suggest transference is instantaneous. In fact in the baggers case he was carried off by angels, that doesn't seem especially quick. Or how long between the baggers death and the rich mans.

Not good examples, JIA, to illustrate you claim.

Originally posted by Robtard
Now you're talking crazier than usual... You said yourself that "you don not skip a beat when you die, you simply change dimensions" you used the Bible story to corroborate this, "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom". Good Lord, we have a conundrum! Did the beggar die and Abraham held him in bosom for years maybe decades until the rich man died, waiting years in the homo-erotic pose just so the rich man could see what he will be missing for eternity?

I can tell that you that you are one of the slow ones Rob., and you probably rode the sweet pickles bus. Anyhoo, I will once again come down to the nadir of your thinking. Other folk I can talk up here but with you I must make an effort to reach the person with the least amount of understanding. If I succeed at this I know that those at higher levels will get it. Now, then, where was I? Oh, I remember you were once again accusing me of something without cause because you just don’t comprehend what I am attempting to convey. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Abraham held the beggar in his bosom. Rob-tard (I am trying to enunciate my syllables so that you don’t lose me, this is too critical. Also, am I the only one who thinks that Robtard sounds like another word in the English language?) Rob., Abraham’s Bosom is a metaphorical (sorry I checked the Robtard dictionary and it says that the word “metaphorical” is too complex for you so I will change it). Abraham’s bosom is a figur…oops, that word is also to big for you. Well, anyway Abraham’s bosom is not a reference to a part of his physical anatomy. It formerly referred to a location in Hell that was separated from the torment side by a great gulf fixed. The angels carried the beggar to this side of Hell. It was a temporary holding place for God’s people (possibly until the Lord Jesus died to pay for our sins, redeemed us, and made it possible for us to go to Heaven). But the rich man ended up on the torment side of that great gulf fixed. Here is Wikipedia’s description of Abraham’s bosom. I believe that it is in keeping with Scripture.

Abraham's bosom

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

Abraham's bosom (Luke 16:22,23) refers to the custom of reclining on couches at the dining table, which was prevalent among the Jews, an arrangement which brought the head of one person almost into the bosom of the one who sat or reclined above him.

To "be in Abraham's bosom" thus meant to enjoy happiness and rest (Matthew 8:11; Luke 16:23) at the banquet in Paradise. Abraham's bosom is said to be the waiting place for those who "lived by faith" in Yahweh, but died before the coming of Jesus; sometime during the three days between the Crucifixion of Jesus and his alleged resurrection, Jesus descended into the realm of the dead and retrieved those in Abraham's bosom.

Abraham's Bosom is a figurative phrase for the presence of God, paradise (Basic Theology Charles C. Ryrie). It is believed by some Christians to be a former comfortable section of "hades", that neighbored Hell (the place of torment) before the resurrection of Jesus. Others believe the Lucian parable to be mythical and not based on the realities of the time of Jesus words. (Luke 16:22-23; 23:43). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham's_bosom

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I can tell that you that you are one of the slow ones Rob., and you probably rode the sweet pickles bus. Anyhoo, I will once again come down to the nadir of your thinking. Other folk I can talk up here but with you I must make an effort to reach the person with the least amount of understanding. If I succeed at this I know that those at higher levels will get it. Now, then, where was I? Oh, I remember you were once again accusing me of something without cause because you just don’t comprehend what I am attempting to convey. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Abraham held the beggar in his bosom. Rob-tard (I am trying to enunciate my syllables so that you don’t lose me, this is too critical. Also, am I the only one who thinks that Robtard sounds like another word in the English language?) Rob., Abraham’s Bosom is a metaphorical (sorry I checked the Robtard dictionary and it says that the word “metaphorical” is too complex for you so I will change it). Abraham’s bosom is a figur…oops, that word is also to big for you. Well, anyway Abraham’s bosom is not a reference to a part of his physical anatomy. It formerly referred to a location in Hell that was separated from the torment side by a great gulf fixed. The angels carried the beggar to this side of Hell. It was a temporary holding place for God’s people (possibly until the Lord Jesus died to pay for our sins, redeemed us, and made it possible for us to go to Heaven). But the rich man ended up on the torment side of that great gulf fixed. Here is Wikipedia’s description of Abraham’s bosom. I believe that it is in keeping with Scripture.

[B]Abraham's bosom

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

Abraham's bosom (Luke 16:22,23) refers to the custom of reclining on couches at the dining table, which was prevalent among the Jews, an arrangement which brought the head of one person almost into the bosom of the one who sat or reclined above him.

To "be in Abraham's bosom" thus meant to enjoy happiness and rest (Matthew 8:11; Luke 16:23) at the banquet in Paradise. Abraham's bosom is said to be the waiting place for those who "lived by faith" in Yahweh, but died before the coming of Jesus; sometime during the three days between the Crucifixion of Jesus and his alleged resurrection, Jesus descended into the realm of the dead and retrieved those in Abraham's bosom.

Abraham's Bosom is a figurative phrase for the presence of God, paradise (Basic Theology Charles C. Ryrie). It is believed by some Christians to be a former comfortable section of "hades", that neighbored Hell (the place of torment) before the resurrection of Jesus. Others believe the Lucian parable to be mythical and not based on the realities of the time of Jesus words. (Luke 16:22-23; 23:43). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham's_bosom [/B]

Gee, so original, using my screen name to insult me... Funny, when someone catches you in a contradiction, you suddenly turn from 'passionate (about the bible), likable, understanding, and patient guy' to 'whiny, angry, crybaby bitchboy'; bipolar are we? As far as the bosom/homo-erotic part, that was obviously some light humor I threw in for shits and giggles, a Cranial Colossus like yourself should have seen that. Like I told you before, if you do not want me answering your post and asking you questions about you're post, just ask. What I didn't do is get personal and have an anal-spasm like you just did above.

Ask yourself, "What Would Jesus Do", if faced with a "slow ones" who "rode the sweet pickles bus"? Would Jesus resort to petty insults or would Jesus have compassion and understanding? Going off the Bible, Jesus would definitely do the latter. You have failed in your mission to be like Jesus and spread his word... Sorry, failing sucks.

Originally posted by Robtard
Gee, so original, using my screen name to insult me... Funny, when someone catches you in a contradiction, you suddenly turn from 'passionate (about the bible), likable, understanding, and patient guy' to 'whiny, angry, crybaby bitchboy'; bipolar are we? As far as the bosom/homo-erotic part, that was obviously some light humor I threw in for shits and giggles, a Cranial Colossus like yourself should have seen that. Like I told you before, if you do not want me answering your post and asking you questions about you're post, just ask. What I didn't do is get personal and have an anal-spasm like you just did above.

Ask yourself, "What Would Jesus Do", if faced with a "slow ones" who "rode the sweet pickles bus"? Would Jesus resort to petty insults or would Jesus have compassion and understanding? Going off the Bible, Jesus would definitely do the latter. You have failed in your mission to be like Jesus and spread his word... Sorry, failing sucks.

I maike an effort to answer all of your questions (which are many times disrespectful) but you seem to reply with gratuitous sarcasm. Is there a need for it? I can understand being facetious and comical but you seem to go beyond that. I can take it but it just means that I have to make adjustments to how I respond to you. The previous post was just one example of that. I suggest we keep our posts clean, light, congenial, and informative. But what do you say?