Scientific Facts in the Bible

Originally posted by Templares
There are several mundane ways in which a prediction of the future can be fulfilled but this is my (and the Bible-writers) favourite:

[B]Vagueness. The prophecy can be worded in such a way that people can interpret any outcome as a fulfillment. Nostradomus's prophecies are all of this type. Vagueness works particularly well when people are religiously motivated to believe the prophecies.

-Vagueness. Here is the entire passage and related verses:

17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

If the passage about the two men in the field referred to daytime activities, it would have been stated close to verse 17:31. In fact, it could be interpreted that the phrases "in the day" and "in that night" describe only the passage adjacent to it. In other words, the phrase "in that night" have no bearing to subsequent verses like the "two men shall be in the field . . ." . In addition, slaves working in the fields at night is not unheard of.

There ain't (excuse me, is not) anything vague about these prophecies:

Prophecies Concerning the Lord Jesus Christ

seed of a woman

descendant of Abraham

descendant of Isaac

descendant of Jacob

from the tribe of Judah

heir to the throne of David

anointed and eternal

born in Bethlehem

time for His birth

to be born of a virgin

slaughter of children

flight to Egypt

the way prepared

preceded by a forerunner

preceded by Elijah

declared the Son of God

Galilean ministry

speaks in parables

a prophet

to bind up the brokenhearted

rejected by His own people, the Jews

priest after the order of Melchizedek

triumphal entry

adored by infants

not believed

betrayed by a close friend

betrayed for thirty pieces of silver

accused by false witnesses

silent to accusations

spat on and struck

hated without reason

a sacrifice Who died for the world

crucified between two robbers

pierced through hands and feet

sneered and mocked

was reproached

prayer for His enemies

soldiers gambled for His clothing

forsaken by God

no bones broken

His side pierced

buried with the rich

to be resurrected

His ascension to God's right hand

The rest of this post (all the words in black) was copied from the link below.

http://www.christianarsenal.com/Apologetics/MessProphecies.htm

One of the amazing things about the Bible is the fulfilled prophecy that it contains. This is just one of the evidences of the supernatural origin of the Bible. Here is just a small example of the prophecies in the Bible about Jesus. There are many prophecies concerning Jesus on the Old Testament that were fulfilled in the New Testament. No other book contains prophecy like the Bible. The Koran contains one prophecy that is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Mohammed said that he would return to Mecca and he did. The book of Mormon contains some prophecy, however some of it was plagiarized from the Bible by Joseph Smith and the rest of it was written by Joseph Smith after the fact. The Bible stands alone in this area!

Think about this.... the statistical probability of predicting one event is one chance in two. Either the event will happen or it will not. When you add one more prediction, the person would have a one in four chance of being right on both predictions. The statistical odds against someone predicting 35 events and being 100% correct on all 35 is 1 to 34,359,738,368. That is a 36 billion, 359 million, 738 thousand, 368 to 1 against some one making 35 predictions and all of them coming true. Notice what I am saying here, not 35 out of hundreds but 35 out of 35! That is nothing short of a miracle.
This is evidence that those who were writing the Bible had a source of information far beyond the realm of human knowledge. It seems to me that they needed input from someone who knew the future, that could control people, nations, time and space, and who could raise the dead. The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that God inspired the Bible. Any other explanation just does not make sense. (By the way there are over 300 fulfilled prophecies in the O.T..... figure the odds on that!)

Yes. We did notice that you have a capy and pasting problem.

Though, you, like the authors of those passages...have a perception issue.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

One of the amazing things about the Bible is the fulfilled prophecy that it contains. This is just one of the evidences of the supernatural origin of the Bible. Here is just a small example of the prophecies in the Bible about Jesus. There are many prophecies concerning Jesus on the Old Testament that were fulfilled in the New Testament. No other book contains prophecy like the Bible. The Koran contains one prophecy that is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Mohammed said that he would return to Mecca and he did. The book of Mormon contains some prophecy, however some of it was plagiarized from the Bible by Joseph Smith and the rest of it was written by Joseph Smith after the fact. The Bible stands alone in this area!

Think about this.... the statistical probability of predicting one event is one chance in two. Either the event will happen or it will not. When you add one more prediction, the person would have a one in four chance of being right on both predictions. The statistical odds against someone predicting 35 events and being 100% correct on all 35 is 1 to 34,359,738,368. That is a 36 billion, 359 million, 738 thousand, 368 to 1 against some one making 35 predictions and all of them coming true. Notice what I am saying here, not 35 out of hundreds but 35 out of 35! That is nothing short of a miracle.
This is evidence that those who were writing the Bible had a source of information far beyond the realm of human knowledge. It seems to me that they needed input from someone who knew the future, that could control people, nations, time and space, and who could raise the dead. The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that God inspired the Bible. Any other explanation just does not make sense. (By the way there are over 300 fulfilled prophecies in the O.T..... figure the odds on that!)

The Old Testament never names Jesus by name, it only speaks of a Messiah, so in reality, how hard would it be for a man any man to just say "Hey, it's me, I'm the Messiah." The New Testament says that Jesus will return right? How hard would it be for youself or anyone else to claim to be Jesus come back? Also, the New Testament was written close to 400 years after Jesus died, so anything written about Jesus is not first hand or eyewitness experience; how hard would it be to embellish a story, especially a 400 year old story? I.E., Jesus poured a cup of wine gets turned into Jesus turned water to wine 400 years later.

To JIA:

I raise you to 205 unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

*excerpt*

Malachi

The gospel of Mark claims that John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy given in Malachi. But the Malachi prophecy says that God will send Elijah before "the great and dreadful day of the LORD" in which the world will be consumed by fire. Yet John the Baptist flatly denied that he was Elijah (Elias) in John 1:21 and the earth was not destroyed after John's appearance. 3:1, 4:1, 5

Originally posted by Templares
To JIA:

I raise you to 205 unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

*excerpt*

Malachi

The gospel of Mark claims that John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy given in Malachi. But the Malachi prophecy says that God will send Elijah before "the great and dreadful day of the LORD" in which the world will be consumed by fire. Yet John the Baptist flatly denied that he was Elijah (Elias) in John 1:21 and the earth was not destroyed after John's appearance. 3:1, 4:1, 5

Response pending Temp.

Originally posted by Templares
To JIA:

I raise you to 205 unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

*excerpt*

Malachi

The gospel of Mark claims that John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy given in Malachi. But the Malachi prophecy says that God will send Elijah before "the great and dreadful day of the LORD" in which the world will be consumed by fire. Yet John the Baptist flatly denied that he was Elijah (Elias) in John 1:21 and the earth was not destroyed after John's appearance. 3:1, 4:1, 5

John the Baptist IS NOT Elijah, but a TYPE of Elijah. What I mean by this is that John the Baptist is referred to as "Elijah" because he had a similar anointing on his life as Elijah. It is akin to a person who acts like someone else or has similar ability or talent. We usually say that that person is "just like so and so" or is the "second coming of so and so." John the Baptist went before Jesus preaching repentance in the SPIRIT and POWER of Elijah, but John WAS NOT Elijah.

Here is the original prophecy concerning John the Baptist and his advent as a type of Elijah.

Malachi 4:5-6
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
And he will turn
The hearts of the fathers to the children,
And the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”
Here is another passage of Scripture concerning John the Baptist. This event occurred before Jesus was born.

Luke 1:13-17
But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John . And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

Finally, this is the fulfillment of the prophecy spoken by the prophet Malachi. Jesus connects the prophecy with the fulfillment and identifies John the Baptist as "Elijah" even though John was not Elijah, but a TYPE as it were.

Matthew 11:7-15
As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John : “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses. 9 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 10 For this is he of whom it is written:

‘ Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.’

“Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Whoomp, there it is!

Any more questions?

So this means one should take Malachi's prophecy figuratively not literally? Which prophecies should be taken literally?

Originally posted by Templares
To JIA:

I raise you to 205 unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html

*excerpt*

Malachi

The gospel of Mark claims that John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy given in Malachi. But the Malachi prophecy says that God will send Elijah before "the great and dreadful day of the LORD" in which the world will be consumed by fire. Yet John the Baptist flatly denied that he was Elijah (Elias) in John 1:21 and the earth was not destroyed after John's appearance. 3:1, 4:1, 5

Furthermore, Temp., God's "before" and our before in reference to God consuming the world with fire are on two totally different timetables. I know from experience and from studying the Word of God that God--and He is so cool for this--does everything according to His plan. God is strategic, careful, precise, deliberate, and calculated in all that He does. We are not privy to when God is about to do the things that He does, we just sit back and wait. For example God promised Noah that He would bring floodwaters. I don't believe that God gave Noah a time though. God prophesied for centuries that He would send His Son Jesus, but I don't recall God giving a timetable per se (there may have been one I just don't recall offhand). Finally, God has promised to send Jesus back not to die this time but to take His church out of here prior to the Tribulation that will come upon the world. God's wrath against sin will be administered on the world. It is amazing that even after all this people will still not repent of their immoral, godless, sinful lives. At the time that the Lord Jesus walked the earth He admitted that neither the angels nor He knew the time of His retrurn, but the Father only. I leave you all with this verse of Scripture:

Acts 1:7
And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority .

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

There ain't (excuse me, is not) anything vague about these prophecies:

[B]Prophecies Concerning the Lord Jesus Christ

seed of a woman

descendant of Abraham

descendant of Isaac

descendant of Jacob

from the tribe of Judah

heir to the throne of David

anointed and eternal

born in Bethlehem

time for His birth

to be born of a virgin

slaughter of children

flight to Egypt

the way prepared

preceded by a forerunner

preceded by Elijah

declared the Son of God

Galilean ministry

speaks in parables

a prophet

to bind up the brokenhearted

rejected by His own people, the Jews

priest after the order of Melchizedek

triumphal entry

adored by infants

not believed

betrayed by a close friend

betrayed for thirty pieces of silver

accused by false witnesses

silent to accusations

spat on and struck

hated without reason

a sacrifice Who died for the world

crucified between two robbers

pierced through hands and feet

sneered and mocked

was reproached

prayer for His enemies

soldiers gambled for His clothing

forsaken by God

no bones broken

His side pierced

buried with the rich

to be resurrected

His ascension to God's right hand
[/B]

First of all - how is it prophecy to write about something... after it has happened?

Second of all - We only have the Bible's word a lot of this stuff happened, with no other corroborative evidence. It is easy to predict something you are making up.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
First of all - how is it prophecy to write about something... after it has happened?

Second of all - We only have the Bible's word a lot of this stuff happened, with no other corroborative evidence. It is easy to predict something you are making up.

Are you taking prozac? (I ask this in good Christian love and concern). None of the things that were written in the Old Testament concerning Jesus Christ had happened yet.

I read through the first three of that "Skeptic's" site and closed the page. (Thank goodness that God saying that Adam would die meant RIGHT THEN AND THERE. Proof that the Bible's wrong!)

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
First of all - how is it prophecy to write about something... after it has happened?

Originally posted by FeceMan
I read through the first three of that "Skeptic's" site and closed the page, laughing. (Thank goodness that God saying that Adam would die meant RIGHT THEN AND THERE. Proof that the Bible's wrong!)

The prophecies were written in the OT.

Me too.

😆

Actually Adam and Eve did die the moment that they disobeyed God's Word. They died "spiritually in their trespass or sin." Sin separates us from the life and glory of God. That is why Adam and Eve were suddenly aware that they were naked. The had lost or fallen short of the glory of God. Scholars hold that Adam and Eve were clothed in a portion of God's glory (a tangible substance).

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Are you taking prozac? (I ask this in good Christian love and concern). None of the things that were written in the Old Testament concerning Jesus Christ had happened yet.

No, he just sees through the lies. Science runs the risk of being wrong, but Christianity cannot afford that cost. So, they have woven an entr’acte web to snare the simple minded. Christianity needs converts to stay alive. Science is above that, and Christianity is jealous. That is why there are threads like this one.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Are you taking prozac? (I ask this in good Christian love and concern). None of the things that were written in the Old Testament concerning Jesus Christ had happened yet.

The prophecies were written in the OT.

I think you are both missing the path I was going down - you have these "prophecies" claiming what is going to happen in the future - then you have the NT confirming them apparently a few years after they happened (since the Gospels weren't written over night)

Now, we only have the Bible's word any of that actually happened the way it said it did... do you see where I am going? And it is easy to confirm a prophecy after after the fact.

Hell, looks at Nostradamus, people can fit his predictions in with nigh on everything.

Delightfully enough most of those listed are vague - don't get into names of specific dates or the like. Very easy to then years later go "Ah yes, clearly that is what that is talking about! prophecy... confirmed!"

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I think you are both missing The path I was going down - you have these "prophecies" claiming what is going to happen in The future - then you have The NT confirming them apparently a few years after they happened (since The Gospels weren't written over night)

Now, we only have The Bible's word any of that actually happened The way it said it did... do you see where I am going? And it is easy to confirm a prophecy after after The fact.

Hell, looks at Nostradamus, people can fit his predictions in with nigh on everything.

Delightfully enough most of those listed are vague - don't get into names of specific dates or The like. Very easy to then years later go "Ah yes, clearly that is what that is talking about! prophecy... confirmed!"

The term I've heard used is post-diction.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, he just sees through the lies. Science runs the risk of being wrong, but Christianity cannot afford that cost. So, they have woven an entr’acte web to snare the simple minded. Christianity needs converts to stay alive. Science is above that, and Christianity is jealous. That is why there are threads like this one.

I think I may have asked the wrong person that question. Shak, do you think before you speak? You seem a tad bit impetuous. I can tell by your responses to my posts, you don't even read them and respond to them (based on what I write) most of the time. Instead, your only purpose seems to be to belittle what I write instead of intelligently considering what I wrote and then carefully crafting a good, sensible (and most importantly pertinent) response to it like most of the other forum members.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The term I've heard used is post-diction.

Yes, that would be it exactly.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I think you are both missing the path I was going down - you have these "prophecies" claiming what is going to happen in the future - then you have the NT confirming them apparently a few years after they happened (since the Gospels weren't written over night)

Now, we only have the Bible's word any of that actually happened the way it said it did... do you see where I am going? And it is easy to confirm a prophecy after after the fact.

Hell, looks at Nostradamus, people can fit his predictions in with nigh on everything.

Delightfully enough most of those listed are vague - don't get into names of specific dates or the like. Very easy to then years later go "Ah yes, clearly that is what that is talking about! prophecy... confirmed!"

Answer me this Imperial_Samura: how do you know for certain that you are your mother's child? Things that make you go hmm. The only "so-called" proof that you have is a birth certificate (which by the way could have been falsified), perhaps genetic similarities between you and your mother (which could simply be random chance occurrence), or finally, a maternity test checking DNA (again, how do you know that the tester told you the truth?).

Ahhhh, I see, you really don't know do you? You are going by what people have been telling you your whole life on this issue. But you don't really know who your mother is. Someone maybe lying to you. Although the possibilities are slim that your mother, your relatives, the doctor who delivered you, the nurses and other staff, and anyone else present at your birth are deceiving you, the possibility still exists.

Don't you see the futility and absurdity in applying this same logic to Bible prophecy? I do.

Originally posted by Robtard
The Old Testament never names Jesus by name, it only speaks of a Messiah, so in reality, how hard would it be for a man any man to just say "Hey, it's me, I'm the Messiah." The New Testament says that Jesus will return right? How hard would it be for youself or anyone else to claim to be Jesus come back? Also, the New Testament was written close to 400 years after Jesus died, so anything written about Jesus is not first hand or eyewitness experience; how hard would it be to embellish a story, especially a 400 year old story? I.E., Jesus poured a cup of wine gets turned into Jesus turned water to wine 400 years later.

Where...in the world...did you get your information from? There isn't one Book in the New Testament that was written 400 years after Jesus died. The Book of Revelation was written as early as 81-96 A.D.. The Book of Thessalonians was written in A.D. 51. The Lord Jesus did tell His disciples,

John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

The Holy Spirit breathed His Word into/through the various writers, and brought back to their remembrance the details of Jesus' ministry. There was no embellishment because God gave the inspiration for what was written.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Answer me this Imperial_Samura: how do you know for certain that you are your mother's child? Things that make you go hmm. The only "so-called" proof that you have is a birth certificate (which by the way could have been falsified), perhaps genetic similarities between you and your mother (which could simply be random chance occurrence), or finally, a maternity test checking DNA [B](again, how do you know that the tester told you the truth?).

Uh huh. So this some how invalidates my reasonable questioning? Taking a reasonably certain process which a person can logically assume to be true, and making it absurd to add validity to taking a reasonably uncertain process that one lacks reasonable proof to logically think true.

hhhh, I see, you really don't know do you? You are going by what people have been telling you your whole life on this issue. But you don't really know who your mother is. Someone maybe lying to you. Although the possibilities are slim that your mother, your relatives, the doctor who delivered you, the nurses and other staff, and anyone else present at your birth are deceiving you, the possibility still exists.

How do I know my mother is my mother? HOW INDEED!

.............. HOW ABOUT THE ABUNDANCE OF PROOF? Worth anything to yah?

Birth Certificate: Legal document.
Photos: Me less then a day old being held by my mother in the hospital.
Family Friend: A nurse who my mother has known for a long, long time who was working the day I was born, and talks about what I looked like five minutes after birth.
Doctor: I come from a large family, he has delivered me and all my brothers and sisters.
Blood type: Fits in with what it should be.
Compatable Organ Donar: That is, if I needed to donate an organ to one of my family it would be compatable, as most biologically related organs are.

Now, unless you could come up with some plausible theory as to why dozens of people are conspirering to make me think I am the child of someone who isn't my parent them I am going to accept the proof and say I am actually my mothers son.

Don't you see the futility and absurdity in applying this same logic to Bible prophecy? I do.

No, I don't see the absurdidty. The only absurdity here is your odd argument. I ask how can you know, since there is no actual claim other then that in a book confirming prophacy retrocativly and you respond by saying "well then I guess you can't prove anything, even when there is plenty of evidence something is true."

And ultimatly that is the point - any claim can be tested, and the quality of evidence will either validate it or invalidate it. I trust my mother is telling the truth when she says I am here son, and there is a mass of evidence supporting this. I question Biblical prophacy because there are inconsistancies, vagueness and lack of proof. Don't imply that Biblical claims are somehow special or should be excluded from rational consideration. Ultimatly I think they should be measured and judged in the same fashion as any other claim, and if the evidence doesn't validate them then they aren't true.

Remember the old ""Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof."