Scientific Facts in the Bible

Started by JesusIsAlive5 pages

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Uh huh. So this some how invalidates my reasonable questioning? Taking a reasonably certain process which a person can logically assume to be true, and making it absurd to add validity to taking a reasonably uncertain process that one lacks reasonable proof to logically think true.

How do I know my mother is my mother? HOW INDEED!

.............. HOW ABOUT THE ABUNDANCE OF PROOF? Worth anything to yah?

Birth Certificate: Legal document.
Photos: Me less then a day old being held by my mother in the hospital.
Family Friend: A nurse who my mother has known for a long, long time who was working the day I was born, and talks about what I looked like five minutes after birth.
Doctor: I come from a large family, he has delivered me and all my brothers and sisters.
Blood type: Fits in with what it should be.
Compatable Organ Donar: That is, if I needed to donate an organ to one of my family it would be compatable, as most biologically related organs are.

Now, unless you could come up with some plausible theory as to why dozens of people are conspirering to make me think I am the child of someone who isn't my parent them I am going to accept the proof and say I am actually my mothers son.

No, I don't see the absurdidty. The only absurdity here is your odd argument. I ask how can you know, since there is no actual claim other then that in a book confirming prophacy retrocativly and you respond by saying "well then I guess you can't prove anything, even when there is plenty of evidence something is true."

And ultimatly that is the point - any claim can be tested, and the quality of evidence will either validate it or invalidate it. I trust my mother is telling the truth when she says I am here son, and there is a mass of evidence supporting this. I question Biblical prophacy because there are inconsistancies, vagueness and lack of proof. Don't imply that Biblical claims are somehow special or should be excluded from rational consideration. Ultimatly I think they should be measured and judged in the same fashion as any other claim, and if the evidence doesn't validate them then they aren't true.

Remember the old ""Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof."

You haven't heard a word I said. Here is what I propounded:

how do you know for certain that you are your mother's child? Things that make you go hmm. The only "so-called" proof that you have is a birth certificate (which by the way could have been falsified), perhaps genetic similarities between you and your mother (which could simply be random chance occurrence), or finally, a maternity test checking DNA (again, how do you know that the tester told you the truth?).

Ahhhh, I see, you really don't know do you? You are going by what people have been telling you your whole life on this issue. But you don't really know who your mother is. Someone maybe lying to you. Although the possibilities are slim that your mother, your relatives, the doctor who delivered you, the nurses and other staff, and anyone else present at your birth are deceiving you, the possibility still exists.

The possibility exists that we are all just brains in a jar imagining all of this. Fact of the matter is that the evidence points otherwise.

There is an important disctinction between the merely possible, and the reasonable. Lacking any evidence to support it at all, what you just postulated, JIA, is completely unreasonable.

You have not changed the basic point that evidence is required.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You haven't heard a word I said. Here is what I propounded:

[b]how do you know for certain that you are your mother's child? Things that make you go hmm. The only "so-called" proof that you have is a birth certificate (which by the way could have been falsified), perhaps genetic similarities between you and your mother (which could simply be random chance occurrence), or finally, a maternity test checking DNA (again, how do you know that the tester told you the truth?).

Ahhhh, I see, you really don't know do you? You are going by what people have been telling you your whole life on this issue. But you don't really know who your mother is. Someone maybe lying to you. Although the possibilities are slim that your mother, your relatives, the doctor who delivered you, the nurses and other staff, and anyone else present at your birth are deceiving you, the possibility still exists.
[/B]

Well for one, the similarities between mother and child, this is up for interruption but it leads to believe that you are related. If you were black and your mother and father is white that would lead you to believe that you weren’t.

As for DNA there is not just “similarities” the sheer odds that someone has the same genetic profile as you are astronomical, it would be like winning the lottery 3 times in a row. As for a lab tech lying about the maternity test the problem with that is any one else can test the results and can be duplicated by anyone.

If you want to go to the same idea and that the possibility that everyone is lying to you, you also don’t know that God exists and that your religion is correct.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I think I may have asked the wrong person that question. Shak, do you think before you speak? You seem a tad bit impetuous. I can tell by your responses to my posts, you don't even read them and respond to them (based on what I write) most of the time. Instead, your only purpose seems to be to belittle what I write instead of intelligently considering what I wrote and then carefully crafting a good, sensible (and most importantly pertinent) response to it like most of the other forum members.

I call it like I see it.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You haven't heard a word I said. Here is what I propounded:

[b]how do you know for certain that you are your mother's child? Things that make you go hmm. The only "so-called" proof that you have is a birth certificate (which by the way could have been falsified), perhaps genetic similarities between you and your mother (which could simply be random chance occurrence), or finally, a maternity test checking DNA (again, how do you know that the tester told you the truth?).

Ahhhh, I see, you really don't know do you? You are going by what people have been telling you your whole life on this issue. But you don't really know who your mother is. Someone maybe lying to you. Although the possibilities are slim that your mother, your relatives, the doctor who delivered you, the nurses and other staff, and anyone else present at your birth are deceiving you, the possibility still exists.
[/B]

Oh honestly. Ushgarak is completely correct:

The possibility exists that we are all just brains in a jar imagining all of this. Fact of the matter is that the evidence points otherwise.

There is an important disctinction between the merely possible, and the reasonable. Lacking any evidence to support it at all, what you just postulated, JIA, is completely unreasonable.

You have not changed the basic point that evidence is required.

For you see it is you that are failing to listen JIA. You are somehow claiming that solid supporting evidence does not necessarily make something any more true then some ancient story with no corroborative evidence at all. It just doesn't work that way. Not. At. All.

As I said - I have evidence, plenty of it, that my belief in the claim I am my mothers son. Scientifically verifiable evidence. So unless you have some bizarre conspiracy theory as to why, as I said, dozens of people are lying to me about my heritage, then that evidence leads me to a logical, reasonable and accurate truth. Because you see - evidence validates theories and claims. You tack at the moment to go all "but you can't really know because everyone might be lying" is pointless, and doesn't work.

Chance, minor probability exists - certainly, but when evidence does not support such claims then that is not the answer.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Furthermore, Temp., God's "before" and our before in reference to God consuming the world with fire are on two totally different timetables. I know from experience and from studying the Word of God that God--and He is so cool for this--does everything according to His plan. God is strategic, careful, precise, deliberate, and calculated in all that He does. We are not privy to when God is about to do the things that He does, we just sit back and wait. For example God promised Noah that He would bring floodwaters. I don't believe that God gave Noah a time though. God prophesied for centuries that He would send His Son Jesus, but I don't recall God giving a timetable per se (there may have been one I just don't recall offhand). Finally, God has promised to send Jesus back not to die this time but to take His church out of here prior to the Tribulation that will come upon the world. God's wrath against sin will be administered on the world. It is amazing that even after all this people will still not repent of their immoral, godless, sinful lives. At the time that the Lord Jesus walked the earth He admitted that neither the angels nor He knew the time of His retrurn, but the Father only. I leave you all with this verse of Scripture:

[B]Acts 1:7
And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority .
[/B]

How nice.

At the meantime here are some Jewish Messianic "prophecies" that Jesus didnt do (hey i posted this already before).

The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)
Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
All Jews will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
He will swallow up death forever (Isaiah 25:8)
There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
For My House shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3-7)
The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together, as it is written (Zephaniah 3:9)
Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)
He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

And before Christians counter this by saying that Jesus will fulfill all these in the Second Coming, take note that Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies OUTRIGHT (all this things should have occured way back in 20-30AD), and no concept of a second coming exists.

Why dont Jews believed in Jesus. http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Why_Dont_Jews_Believe_In_Jesus$.asp

I think Maimonides sums up the feeling.

"Even Jesus the Nazarene who imagined that he would be Messiah and was killed by the court, was already prophesied by Daniel. So that it was said, “And the members of the outlaws of your nation would be carried to make a (prophetic) vision stand. And they stumbled” (Daniel 11.14). Because, is there a greater stumbling-block than this one? So that all of the prophets spoke that the Messiah redeems Israel, and saves them, and gathers their banished ones, and strengthens their commandments. And this one (Jesus Christ) caused (nations) to destroy Israel by sword, and to scatter their remnant, and to humiliate them, and to exchange the Torah, and to make the majority of the world err to serve a divinity besides God . . . .

. . . . But when the Anointed King will truly rise and succeed and will be raised and uplifted, they (Christians and Muslims) all immediately turn about and know that their fathers inherited FALSEHOOD, and their prophets and ancestors led them ASTRAY."

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I think you are both missing the path I was going down - you have these "prophecies" claiming what is going to happen in the future - then you have the NT confirming them apparently a few years after they happened (since the Gospels weren't written over night)

Now, we only have the Bible's word any of that actually happened the way it said it did... do you see where I am going? And it is easy to confirm a prophecy after after the fact.

Hell, looks at Nostradamus, people can fit his predictions in with nigh on everything.

Delightfully enough most of those listed are vague - don't get into names of specific dates or the like. Very easy to then years later go "Ah yes, clearly that is what that is talking about! prophecy... confirmed!"


Yes, I do realize this. However, in Christ's life, many of the prophecies were clearly about him. Granted, it still requires a measure of faith.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, he just sees through the lies. Science runs the risk of being wrong, but Christianity cannot afford that cost. So, they have woven an entr’acte web to snare the simple minded. Christianity needs converts to stay alive. Science is above that, and Christianity is jealous. That is why there are threads like this one.

Hahaha...hahahaha....ha...ha...

Ha.

Aaaah, look out, I'm trapped by a web of deceit!

Originally posted by FeceMan
Yes, I do realize this. However, in Christ's life, many of the prophecies were clearly about him. Granted, it still requires a measure of faith.

Only a measure? First of all there is reasonable doubt Jesus existed at all, and if he did that anything can be attributed to him as claimed. What proof is there, other then the Bible, that Jesus came about due to an immaculate conception? Or that his death was as they said it was? Or what he said? None. At all.

And as someone above posted there are prophesies the Messiah was meant to fulfill as well, but didn't.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Only a measure? First of all there is reasonable doubt Jesus existed at all, and if he did did anything they attribute to him. What proof, other then the Bible, that Jesus came about due to an immaculate conception? Or that his death was as they said it was? Or what he said? None. At all.

And as someone above posted there are prophesies the Messiah was meant to fulfill as well, but didn't.

Care to be more specific about the prophecies that you assert that Christ has not yet fulfilled. If it is a prophecy that is still yet to be fulfilled (like Jesus' return) of course He has not fulfilled it yet.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Care to be more specific about the prophecies that you assert that Christ has not yet fulfilled. If it is a prophecy that is still yet to be fulfilled (like Jesus' return) of course He has not fulfilled it yet.

Nor will he ever. Remember that when you are an old man facing death.

Originally posted by Templares
How nice.

At the meantime here are some Jewish Messianic "prophecies" that Jesus didnt do (hey i posted this already before).

The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)
Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
All Jews will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
He will swallow up death forever (Isaiah 25:8)
There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
For My House shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3-7)
The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together, as it is written (Zephaniah 3:9)
Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)
He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

And before Christians counter this by saying that Jesus will fulfill all these in the Second Coming, take note that Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies OUTRIGHT (all this things should have occured way back in 20-30AD), and no concept of a second coming exists.

Why dont Jews believed in Jesus. http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Why_Dont_Jews_Believe_In_Jesus$.asp

I think Maimonides sums up the feeling.

"Even Jesus the Nazarene who imagined that he would be Messiah and was killed by the court, was already prophesied by Daniel. So that it was said, [B] “And the members of the outlaws of your nation would be carried to make a (prophetic) vision stand. And they stumbled” (Daniel 11.14). Because, is there a greater stumbling-block than this one? So that all of the prophets spoke that the Messiah redeems Israel, and saves them, and gathers their banished ones, and strengthens their commandments. And this one (Jesus Christ) caused (nations) to destroy Israel by sword, and to scatter their remnant, and to humiliate them, and to exchange the Torah, and to make the majority of the world err to serve a divinity besides God . . . .

. . . . But when the Anointed King will truly rise and succeed and will be raised and uplifted, they (Christians and Muslims) all immediately turn about and know that their fathers inherited FALSEHOOD, and their prophets and ancestors led them ASTRAY." [/B]

Taking expired medication?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Taking expired medication?

Those are the prophecies you asked me about. Care to debunk the fact they were not completed? And the fact Templares is correct - they were not said to happen on Christ's second coming, they were meant to be fulfilled first time round.

Care to explain why they weren't fulfilled?

Or maybe it was because the authors who documented the other, supposedly fulfilled prophesies decided to leave alone the ones that were to hard to lie about? Or maybe it was to do with the fact they were separating the Jews from the Christians at that point?

Re: Scientific Facts in the Bible

Originally posted by Nocturnalwolf82
1. Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. Here, Scripture tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

2. Medical science has only recently discovered that blood-clotting in a newborn reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day.

3. At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space: "He...hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7).

4. The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptic maintain, but to a sphere. Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later. At a time when science believed that the earth was flat, is was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world (see Proverbs 3:6 footnote).

5. God told Job in 1500 B.C.: "Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?" (Job 38:35). The Bible here is making what appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement—that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you know that radio waves travel at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. Science didn’t discover this until 1864 when "British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing" (Modern Century Illustrated Encyclopedia).

6. Job 38:19 asks, "Where is the way where light dwells?" Modern man has only recently discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a "way," traveling at 186,000 miles per second.

7. Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7: "When the morning stars sang together..."

8. "Most cosmologists (scientists who study the structures and evolution of the universe) agree that the Genesis account of creation, in imagining an initial void, may be uncannily close to the truth" (Time, Dec. 1976).

9. Solomon described a "cycle" of air currents two thousand years before scientists "discovered" them. "The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits" (Ecclesiastes 1:6).

10. Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 B.C.: "In the beginning [time] God created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter] . . . And the Spirit of God moved [motion] upon the face of the waters." The first thing God tells man is that He controls of all aspects of the universe.

11. The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in our body’s mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent years. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were "bled," and many died because of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."

12. All things were made by Him (see John 1:3), including dinosaurs. Why then did the dinosaur disappear? The answer may be in Job 40:15–24. In this passage, God speaks about a great creature called "behemoth." Some commentators think this was a hippopotamus. However, the hippo’s tail isn’t like a large tree, but a small twig. Following are the characteristics of this huge animal: It was the largest of all the creatures God made; was plant-eating (herbivorous); had its strength in its hips and a tail like a large tree. It had very strong bones, lived among the trees, drank massive amounts of water, and was not disturbed by a raging river. He appears impervious to attack because his nose could pierce through snares, but Scripture says, "He that made him can make his sword to approach unto him." In other words, God caused this, the largest of all the creatures He had made, to become extinct.

13. Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: "And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean" (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under "running water."

14. Luke 17:34–36 says the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will occur while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night at the same time.

15. "During the devastating Black Death of the fourteenth century, patients who were sick or dead were kept in the same rooms as the rest of the family. People often wondered why the disease was affecting so many people at one time. They attributed these epidemics to ‘bad air’ or ‘evil spirits.’ However, careful attention to the medical commands of God as revealed in Leviticus would have saved untold millions of lives. Arturo Castiglione wrote about the overwhelming importance of this biblical medical law: ‘The laws against leprosyin Leviticus 13 may be regarded as the first model of sanitary legislation’ (A History of Medicine)." Grant R. Jeffery, The Signature of God With all these truths revealed in Scripture,how could a thinking person deny that the Bible is supernatural in origin? There is no other book in any of the world’s religions (Vedas, Bhagavad-Gita, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc.) that contains scientific truth. In fact, they contain statements that are clearly unscientific. Hank Hanegraaff said, "Faith in Christ is not some blind leap into a dark chasm, but a faith based on established evidence." (11:3 continued)

Aman!! The Bible has also stated that every star is different and that the number of stars in the sky is too many to count like the gains of sand of the earth.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Those are the prophecies you asked me about. Care to debunk the fact they were not completed? And the fact Templares is correct - they were not said to happen on Christ's second coming, they were meant to be fulfilled first time round.

Care to explain why they weren't fulfilled?

Or maybe it was because the authors who documented the other, supposedly fulfilled prophesies decided to leave alone the ones that were to hard to lie about? Or maybe it was to do with the fact they were separating the Jews from the Christians at that point?

Here is what I told your boy Templares:

COLOR=darkblue]Furthermore, Temp., God's "before" and our before in reference to God consuming the world with fire are on two totally different timetables. I know from experience and from studying the Word of God that God--and He is so cool for this--does everything according to His plan. God is strategic, careful, precise, deliberate, and calculated in all that He does. We are not privy to when God is about to do the things that He does, we just sit back and wait. For example God promised Noah that He would bring floodwaters. I don't believe that God gave Noah a time though. God prophesied for centuries that He would send His Son Jesus, but I don't recall God giving a timetable per se (there may have been one I just don't recall offhand). Finally, God has promised to send Jesus back not to die this time but to take His church out of here prior to the Tribulation that will come upon the world. God's wrath against sin will be administered on the world. It is amazing that even after all this people will still not repent of their immoral, godless, sinful lives. At the time that the Lord Jesus walked the earth He admitted that neither the angels nor He knew the time of His retrurn, but the Father only. I leave you all with this verse of Scripture: [/COLOR]

Acts 1:7
And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority .

The point is neither one of you is born again; therefore, you don't know what the spiritual import of the Bible is. You know what the Bible says but you don't know what it means and how it relates to other Scriptures in terms of fulfillment. I would wager that you and Templares are not saved, therefore you will never be able to understand the Bible. But to answer your question more pointedly God knows when all of the prophecies will be fulfilled and they will be fulfilled if they haven't been already. I have not read Templares post or verified any of the Scripture references that he posted.

So basically the things that may or may not have occurred are solid proof for the prophesies, but the prophesies that have not been fulfilled don't disprove it because God doesn't work to a set time table?

Jesus, if you believe, wont be returning till the second coming. And the Bible is quite clear on what that will be like. None of the prophesies God has yet to fulfill would be workable in that time frame.

So what are they? One's God simply decided not to fulfill? Or is it simply because no one came to fulfill them? Are they unfulfillable?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
So basically the things that may or may not have occurred are solid proof for the prophesies, but the prophesies that have not been fulfilled don't disprove it because God doesn't work to a set time table?

Jesus, if you believe, wont be returning till the second coming. And the Bible is quite clear on what that will be like. None of the prophesies God has yet to fulfill would be workable in that time frame.

So what are they? One's God simply decided not to fulfill? Or is it simply because no one came to fulfill them? Are they unfulfillable?

Once again (cocks head and shakes finger at you) grasshopper (just funnin'😉 you are close to understanding my point of view, but your knowledge of the Bible is insufficient. The Lord Jesus Christ will return prior to His second advent to catch away His church before God's wrath is administered. Once we are gone all of the events in the Book of Revelation will start to come to fruition and unfold. We will be in Heaven at the marriage supper of the Lamb (Jesus Christ) though. I'll be checking out my mansion and other parts of Heaven. I will going into God's holy throne room and see God face to face. I think I will break down for joy after finally seeing with my eyes what I have been telling people and hearing for years as well as reading about for so long. I can't wait!

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Once again (cocks head and shakes finger at you) grasshopper (just funnin'😉 you are close to understanding my point of view, but your knowledge of the Bible is insufficient. The Lord Jesus Christ will return prior to His second advent to catch away His church before God's wrath is administered. Once we are gone all of the events in the Book of Revelation will start to come to fruition and unfold. We will be in Heaven at the marriage supper of the Lamb (Jesus Christ) though. I'll be checking out my mansion and other parts of Heaven. I will going into God's holy throne room and see God face to face. I think I will break down for joy after finally seeing with my eyes what I have been telling people and hearing for years as well as reading about for so long. I can't wait!

That seems to be... different from the view held by other Christians as to the the progression of events in Revelations.

And besides, if Jesus comes back and all nations become good and all weapons are cast aside and "he will then perfect the entire world to serve God...", well, it is hard to believe that the End of Times would even occur then, wouldn't it? Those prophesy listed by Templares do not seem to suggest Jesus is going to swoop in, collect the Holy and then get the hell out of Dodge. No, they seem to be... far more permanent.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
That seems to be... different from the view held by other Christians as to the the progression of events in Revelations.

And besides, if Jesus comes back and all nations become good and all weapons are cast aside and "he will then perfect the entire world to serve God...", well, it is hard to believe that the End of Times would even occur then, wouldn't it? Those prophesy listed by Templares do not seem to suggest Jesus is going to swoop in, collect the Holy and then get the hell out of Dodge. No, they seem to be... far more permanent.

I gave you snippets grasshopper, snippets. We are going to return to this planet after some of the events described in Revelation take place. Read Revelation 19:11. We will follow Jesus on horses (the Heavenly kind). Lord Jesus will destroy all of His enemies with Word of God proceeding from His mouth as a sharp sword. Then we will live and reign with Jesus for a thousand years from Jerusalem. satan will be cast into the bottomless pit. Then after the thousand years satan will be released to go out and deceive the nations once more. He actually manages to muster a large army that will come surround Jerusalem. Fire will come down from God out of Heaven and consume all of them. Then judgment will ensue.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I gave you snippets grasshopper, snippets. We are going to return to this planet after some of the events described in Revelation take place. Read Revelation 19:11. We will follow Jesus on horses (the Heavenly kind). Lord Jesus will destroy all of His enemies with Word of God proceeding from His mouth as a sharp sword. Then we will live and reign with Jesus for a thousand years from Jerusalem. satan will be cast into the bottomless pit. Then after the thousand years satan will be released to go out and deceive the nations once more. He actually manages to muster a large army that will come surround Jerusalem. Fire will come down from God out of Heaven and consume all of them. Then judgment will ensue.

Uh huh. So Jesus will be going from the love all/turn the other cheek guy to a warrior messiah, wiping out all those who aren't saved?

And we don't get to go to heaven anyway? We have to come back to an earth blasted by revelations and live here for a 1000 years? And even if that were the case, most of Templares examples still don't fit.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Uh huh. So Jesus will be going from the love all/turn the other cheek guy to a warrior messiah, wiping out all those who aren't saved?

And we don't get to go to heaven anyway? We have to come back to an earth blasted by revelations and live here for a 1000 years? And even if that were the case, most of Templares examples still don't fit.

No it will not happen the way that you described. You are the only one who gives my mind a mental work out. I have been bench pressing 1000 lbs all day (mentally) and then you come along after I am taxed mentally and start asking twenty questions (almost like a child). It is harder for me to answer a child's questions because they seem endless. Just when I think that I am done I get hit with another one. Anyhoo, Samura if you have not received Christ as your personal Lord and Savior by the time He catches away His church, then you will be left behind. Have you heard of the movie "Left Behind?" It is based on the this event in the Bible. Once the church is gone a world leader will arise who will bring peace for 3 1/2 years. After that this world leader (I think it is the Pope) will break his covenant (I believe with the Jews), set up his throne in the temple claiming to personally be God. If you do not accept his mark in your forehead you (and others that do not have his mark) will not be able to buy or sell and you will be beheaded. After a total of seven years Jesus Christ will return and His church with Him. I already told you the rest in another post.