Originally posted by Khem-Adam
If you're going to ignore that the characters involved have been distinctly altered and futures changed, then there's no point discussing it with you.
That's not what I'm ignoring. That's a valid argument if we don't know how the characters here compare to their mainsteam selves. In this case, we KNOW that Darkseid is less powerful than the mainsteam version. If you ignore that, it's not worth debating it with you.
You act as though Nabu wasn't likewise weakened. It's impressive that Nabu was even able manifest at all without a physical body, much less fight like that.
And yet Nabu in this form did much better against The Spectre than Hector did. In fact, he stated that in this form, he was still the most powerful Lord of Order.
And Mordru realizes his power is weakened to the point where even casting simple spells "feel like mountains".
Was this stated in a previous issue? Definitely not in this one.
A weakness which causes him to take poundings from the JSA. Though you'd undoubtibly call it an "owning", none of this physical punishment can do anything but damage Mordru's corporeal form which is fairly insignificant, and he again defeats the entire JSA. An ability Lords of Magic have that you seem determined not to admit.
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Yes, getting KOed is insignificant. When a Lord is completely dominated in a fight, takes a few panels to stand, etc., it's all good because they could really heal the damage if they wanted! They just choose not to do it in a timely manner.
S now you're claiming that harmful energy Mordru was hit with that exploded out of his mouth and eyes from the inside out was just a pen stab? Yeah...
... He stabbed Mordru with the pen, and simultaneously the energy from the pen released Mordru. What exactly are you arguing?
A blatant lie is saying the only sneak attack was Jakeem stabbing Mordru with a pen. the stabbing was only to set up the sneak attack from Thunderbolt. A blatant distortion is acting as though that sneak attack didn't happen and that Thunderbolt was facing Mordru evenly. When Mordru is looking at Thunderbolt, Mordru is holding his throat and his face is SMOKING from Thunderbolt's attack. His face is still smoking even as he's teleported away.
... How biased can you be? He was looking right at Thunderbolt vowing revenge for FOUR PANELS STRAIGHT, and you're claiming it was a sneak attack???
And I mentioned the stab. The point is, you claim physical damage, like throat slits for instance, are insigniicant to Mordru and Fate, THEN you use one as an excuse for a loss. Hmm ...
Mordru was already greatly weakened, was fighting Nabu, and he took a sneak attack from Thunderbolt right inside his skull and still didn't go down.
Do you see Jakeem telling Thunderbolt to attack? Me neither. I see him stabbing Mordru with the pen and simultaneously releasing T-Bolt. Sure, he had some smoke coming from his mouth after T-Bolt surface out of it, but it's not like he was actually blasted.
And again, you keep saying physical damage is irrelevent. There were 4 panels between this and Jakeem telling Thunderbolt to attack Mordru. Panels of Mordru on the ground, vowing revenge, and favoring his "insignificant" injury.
When Darkseid takes a couple of claws from behind by Doomsday he not only goes down but needs a mother box just to be saved from dying.
Actually, we don't know how many hits since the scene changed after 4 were landed, but he was beaten incoherent, so it's not like he had the neccessary will to heal himself.
Not to mention, the very next issue Superman states he never beleived it was possible to hurt Darkseid.
It was stated and shown. Hector was beaten and battered so badly that even his helmet was broken, then impaled through the chest and hurled from the sky crashing into to the ground. He then raised up and completely healed his body and uniform of all damage.
And Darkseid's healed beings from vaporization. Just because he can do it doesn't mean he always will. Like I said, he has been KOed before.
Are you not reading? Hector is much greater than Kent.
Indeed? Then explain his abyssmal performance against The Spectre. Or Johnny Sorrow. Or Neron. Or Black Adam.
This is terrible. He had all the time in the world, he was just too busy dying. Once he gets torn into by Doomsday he's shown for a long time unable to do anything but lie there and bleed.
He had all the time in the world while he was too incoherent to actually heal himself, yes. If you want me to post scans of him casually healing an Orion who's been torn in half ...
He was beaten to the point where he felt Orion would kill him if it continued, so he threw the fight to avoid that fate by cheating with his Omega beams. The writer of the story said this himself.
Orion gained the advantage using skill, therefore Darkseid threw it at that point, as it was convincing. At the point it actually happened, he was not shown damaged. He was planning on throwing it before the fight ever started. But the writer did state he felt he'd eventually die. However, this was a fight where all powers were specifically banned from being used, and he was forced to fight HTH until there was a victor. Meaning using powers to heal himself was against the rules.
Now then, Mordru got physically owned by Powergirl when he tried the same.
I never said Kent had the same abilities as Hector. I specifically gave different answers for who'd win for different Fates. The point being, Darkseid is not like the Lords of Magic as you claim. He'd get murdered by things they shrug off as nothing.
... Like what?
Except that that's for when Thunderbolt is outside of the pen. Mordru beat him inside the pen in his own dimension where the genies do what they want.
When was this stated to specifically apply to Thunderbolt? I'd like an actual reference, not just you stating it's so or issues where this applies to other Imps (as we've seen, Triumph's Imp for instance was given much more priveleges than Jakeem's)
At best, you have an off-panel win. Given that on-panel he was not only owned but had no effect, the way he won is dubious at best.
Anyway, since you just seem to be twisting things to fit your arguements I'll finish off here. And show Mordru's weakness which you denied.
I don't see it anywhere in the comic. JSA#80 is the only part of the arc I read, so whatever. Regardless, Mordru owned a Nabu who was shown as more powerful than Hector in DOV.
Any way you look at it, Thunderbolt > Hector per this issue.
