Lower Abstracts vs. High Tier Sky Father

Besides being abstract, what is the difference in power of the lower abstracts?

There seems to be some confustion as to what constitutes abstract power lvls. SOmeone like Parallax was not an abstract, but he had High Tier Abstract power lvls. Galactus is sometimes considered abstract and sometimes not. But he most definitely has abstract power lvls.

Let's say tyrant fully powered fight galactus. He would have to be beyond skyfather lvl in order to even put up that kind of fight against galactus. But he is not an abstract is he? So what constitutes abstract power lvls as opposed to high tier sky father?

Could someone like Odin, Hight Tier Sky father, beat someone like the Inbetweener, low tier Abstract. What does it take for someone to be abstract in power? not an abstract, becuz something as simple as envy can be an abstract. But would it be as powerful as Darkseid? Prolly not. So what divides this invisable line of power that seperates the abstract power lvls as opposed to high tier sky fathers?

Bump

Does anyone have the answer that I seek? Or do we just arbitrarily decide who has abstact power lvls and who is sky father. Is there an actual guide? what makes one character abstract in power lvl and the other sky father?

Bump. I need an answer people. What makes somone abstact in power vs someone who is sky Father? who makes the descision on who is sky father and who is abstract. What abilities does a person have to display to be abstract in power as opposed to sky Father? When Darkseid stopped ares in time and space, and ares had the full power of the god wave, I considered that to be an act of abstract power lvl on Darkseid's behalf. But some people say he's only low or mid tier sky father. So what is the answer? how much power does someone need to jump from sky father to abstract?

Abstract isn't a power level.

It's a position of existence or being if you will.

A representation.

Classic Ion isn't an abstract, but since he eclipses the universe itself in power and range, he'd destroy Eternity, since Eternity is limited as a universal representative.

There is no abstract level, as there is no herald level and skyfather level.
Merely positions is what they are.

The way I see it, to be on the level of an abstract(and I personally don't consider many people to be), you have to pose a serious threat to an ACTUAL abstract. Now unless I'm mistaken, Ares is a skyfather, and even with the godwave he's not an actual abstract. Now the thing is, that abstracts are actually some of the biggest victims of PIS out there. Very few of the instances where they're taken down by a non abstract should even be considered valid, because they simply function on a whole different level than most. To be an actual abstract, you need to represent some fundamental, intangible force, and have mastery over that force. To be on abstract level, you need to be able to match an actual abstract in power, not physical strength(though that can be an indication), but in the actual power you have behind you. For instance, your example IMO would NOT constitute an abstract level feat, because A. Ares is not an abstract. B. That would be sidestepping his opponent, NOT matching Ares power with his own. A better example would be if an Abstract manifested itself and attacks Darkseid, then as the abstract blast away, Darkseid is able to counter the blast with one of his own, either stalemating the abstract's blast or overcoming it with his own blast. However, even in that instance it would probably considered by most an event of PIS or SMvF(remember, I said abstracts were major victims of it), because Darkseid was created to be a skyfather, and abstract is a level that shouldn't be able to be reached through character growth, there should always be something specific that skyrockets the character to that level. Now all this is strictly my opinion, to my knowledge it's never really been covered before, and I may be completely wrong about it, but that's the way I see it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
The way I see it, to be on the level of an abstract(and I personally don't consider many people to be), you have to pose a serious threat to an ACTUAL abstract. Now unless I'm mistaken, Ares is a skyfather, and even with the godwave he's not an actual abstract. Now the thing is, that abstracts are actually some of the biggest victims of PIS out there. Very few of the instances where they're taken down by a non abstract should even be considered valid, because they simply function on a whole different level than most. To be an actual abstract, you need to represent some fundamental, intangible force, and have mastery over that force. To be on abstract level, you need to be able to match an actual abstract in power, not physical strength(though that can be an indication), but in the actual power you have behind you. For instance, your example IMO would NOT constitute an abstract level feat, because A. Ares is not an abstract. B. That would be sidestepping his opponent, NOT matching Ares power with his own. A better example would be if an Abstract manifested itself and attacks Darkseid, then as the abstract blast away, Darkseid is able to counter the blast with one of his own, either stalemating the abstract's blast or overcoming it with his own blast. However, even in that instance it would probably considered by most an event of PIS or SMvF(remember, I said abstracts were major victims of it), because Darkseid was created to be a skyfather, and abstract is a level that shouldn't be able to be reached through character growth, there should always be something specific that skyrockets the character to that level. Now all this is strictly my opinion, to my knowledge it's never really been covered before, and I may be completely wrong about it, but that's the way I see it.

I never considered Ares as abstract lvl. But he did posses the God wave which was abstract in position and power. For this reason, I considered Darkseids power against Ares at the time to be at abstract lvl. Any being who can hold the Godwave wielder in check by actually hardening time and space has some major cajulas. I just wanted to know the differnce in power. Cuz there doesn't seem to be a clear cut definition. I mean anything most sky Fathers can do, so can Silver Surfer or hal Jordan. But they are considered as herald lvl.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I never considered Ares as abstract lvl. But he did posses the God wave which was abstract in position and power. For this reason, I considered Darkseids power against Ares at the time to be at abstract lvl. Any being who can hold the Godwave wielder in check by actually hardening time and space has some major cajulas. I just wanted to know the differnce in power. Cuz there doesn't seem to be a clear cut definition. I mean anything most sky Fathers can do, so can Silver Surfer or hal Jordan. But they are considered as herald lvl.

Sure there is a definition of an abstract entity.
The beings are "Avatars" of cosmic states, components of existence, actual elements of reality in the universe. States of being. Experience.
If you listed every ingredient that makes up the recipe of the universe, each ingredient would have the capacity to give birth to an avatar of itself. An Abstract Entity. The pinnacle of an idea or state.

That is why Marvel always eludes to the fact that, even if an abstract dies, it has to be replaced. Otherwise, it could be damaging to the universe. Representative of the forces making up the universe.

Skyfathers are just the heads of their respective pantheons of gods.

As a matter of fact, I would like to announce that my brother, sister, and all my friends are now "Gods".
I am their Skyfather!

Show me the respect I am due!

Originally posted by Horrificus
Sure there is a definition of an abstract entity.
The beings are "Avatars" of cosmic states, components of existence, actual elements of reality in the universe. States of being. Experience.
If you listed every ingredient that makes up the recipe of the universe, each ingredient would have the capacity to give birth to an avatar of itself. An Abstract Entity. The pinnacle of an idea or state.

That is why Marvel always eludes to the fact that, even if an abstract dies, it has to be replaced. Otherwise, it could be damaging to the universe. Representative of the forces making up the universe.

Skyfathers are just the heads of their respective pantheons of gods.

As a matter of fact, I would like to announce that my brother, sister, and all my friends are now "Gods".
I am their Skyfather!

Show me the respect I am due!

This isn't really a versus thread...

Originally posted by rotiart
This isn't really a versus thread...

It does help us better explain things on this forum where the information is most useful.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I said there was no definition of the POWER required to be an abstract. I already gave a definition FOR an abstract.

And YOU were wrong.

Kronoskilled no other Time-designated abstract being. And, he never had any power over time until recently.

He was just a big, intangible consciousness, stuck in space, spreading out over time.

Maelstrom became Anamoly, after killing Anamoly. No with any kind of Anamoly-power. Just killed it,and took over.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Kronoskilled no other Time-designated abstract being. And, he never had any power over time until recently.

Kronos has been the Titan god of Time since back in the day.

Originally posted by Horrificus
He was just a big, intangible consciousness, stuck in space, spreading out over time.

Back in the day:

Chronos

Chronos recreates Drax and empowers him, with the strength of the Universe.,

Originally posted by Horrificus
Maelstrom became Anamoly, after killing Anamoly. No with any kind of Anamoly-power. Just killed it,and took over.

Maelstrom thought he killed the Anomaly, but it was a visualization of the Anomaly, (nothing in comparison) NOT the Anomaly itself.

Here WAY after Maelstrom had done that, the Anomaly pops up in the dimension of manifestation and attacks Quasar.

Maelstrom thought he killed the Anomaly, it was an M-body

So basically, this would be like Odin vs Oblivion? 😆 😆 😆
Even Odin vs a Celstial, would be bad.
You obviosly don't know the difference between abstract and Skyfather.

We have a top tier skyfather (Odin). There's so many people in between an abstract and a skyfather level, it's redicules.
Celestials, Galactus, Genis(?), etc.
What would be the weakest abstracts? Order and Chaos(Marvel)
Those 2 aren't powerful by themselves, but they would work in unison, to make there creations and such(Inbetweener), together they are abstract. But people like Eternity, Infinity, Oblivion, Death, would,(or should) Destroy any being under a full power Galactus.(maybe not Death)
Abstract is not a power level, it's a position.
But here in the forum, we say things, like "he's an abstract"
This is only to guage his/her power, it is not saying, he/she is an abstract. It is mostly to say, that someone is on an Eternity level.

But skyfather's should never even be able to touch, an abstract.
Someone like Eternity, should be able to hit Odin once, and utterly wipe him out.

P.S keep in mind, I'm mostly talking about Marvel.

Originally posted by bigbran
But skyfather's should never even be able to touch, and abstract.
Someone like Eternity, should be able to hit Odin once, and utterly wipe him out.

😎

There are weak Skyfathers too. They aren't all as powerful as Odin or Crom.

Since an abstract is more of a "concept", it makes sense that, for instance, if Enternity, Death or Galactus are destroyed, it would mean the end of the universe. Because that would mean that a basic component of the universe is gone. It should all fall.

As far as the kronos thing goes, he had power, yeah. And, may even have been a God of Titan, but, he was not a Universal Abstract of Time.
I mean, the guys was stuck in our solar system, fading.
He had no time powers until recently.

Originally posted by Horrificus
There are weak Skyfathers too. They aren't all as powerful as Odin or Crom.

Originally posted by bigbran
I know, but he said High skyfathers.(like it really make a difference)

It does make a difference. Some people say Darkseid is only low or mid sky father, but he does things like harden time and space around ares who controlled the God wave, The god wave put ares on par with a universal abstract in power. yet Darkseid, held him in stasis by actually hardening time and space. I want to know what it takes to be abstract in power if that ain't it. I can't see any sky father owning ares like Darkseid did. I"m just trying to get some things cleared up.