Cyclops Blast(full power) vs Classic Juggernaut

Originally posted by Dinalfos
It's not. The Hulk that shattered the bands was simply stronger than normal because of the HR-universe and the Pocket Universe. He was a walking anomaly.

It wasn't the Hulk's strength Strange commented on, it was that reality's physics.

But aside from that, when Juggernaut and Hulk were fighting, they weren't in the HR-universe. War drew his strength from there, but it was clearly used to enhance his physical abilities. There was absolutely no reason to believe otherwise.

It wasn't his physical attributes that was disturbing Strange's spells. It was the energy he was channelling all around his body.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
yeah sure you know everything better you are arguing with the writers and Marvel the 2nd time this is pathetic
😆 😆 😆

Are you an idiot? I just SAID his strength was boosted. The Celestial Tech took care of that by harnessing the energies of the Heroes Reborn- and pocket universes. Sheesh.

Originally posted by Silas Burr
It wasn't the Hulk's strength Strange commented on, it was that reality's physics.

It wasn't his physical attributes that was disturbing Strange's spells. It was the energy he was channelling all around his body.

Just to make things clear, you ARE talking about issue 450, right? Because Strange only commented that "Hulk" was the source of this business.

I've checked the issue and the Hulk you're talking abou wasn't the regular Hulk anyway, but the one from HR. He was "leaking energy like reactor without control rods". The energy was just that, energy. Not magic.

It doesn't matter whether Juggernaut can or can't beat Hulk.

It doesn't matter if it was 'amped' Hulk who stopped Juggernaut.

It doesn't matter that the fight doesn't count as a win for Hulk.

It doesn't matter if Juggernaut WAS stronger than Hulk. (I don't think so altough it's very debatable)

The fact remains: Juggernaut has been stopped. Yet it was even done by physical means.

What comes to the thread I repeat what I said earlier. Juggernaut remains completely unharmed no matter what Cyclops throws at him.

Who would win hulk with boosted strength or a man with the power of a God the only way was his powers being took out thats the only known way to defeat him

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Just to make things clear, you ARE talking about issue 450, right? Because Strange only commented that "Hulk" was the source of this business.

He comments on more than that. He comments about the strange physics of that universe. It's the bizarre physics that make him think to try to see what the bands would do in the first place.

I've checked the issue and the Hulk you're talking abou wasn't the regular Hulk anyway, but the one from HR.

That was the point actually. The regular Hulk has failed to break the bands cast in this universe. The Hulk born of the HR energies shattered them.

He was "leaking energy like reactor without control rods". The energy was just that, energy. Not magic. [/B]

We don't know what kind of enbergy it was. It was likely a combination of many types. But the significance is that it was a strange energy from another universe. When Strange tried to use the Eye of Agomotto this energy zapped him through the Eye itself. When he tried to approach the Hulk it blocked his spells and stopped him. This energy did not merely increase Hulk's strength. It actively affected things around him, including magic.

Whatever this energy was, Apocalypse felt it would allow him to defeat the Celestials themselves. Just giving Hulk a boost in strength would do nothing to help against a Celestial.

Originally posted by Silas Burr
He comments on more than that. He comments about the strange physics of that universe. It's the bizarre physics that make him think to try to see what the bands would do in the first place.

Yes, in the beginning. He remarks that he was assaulted by energies never seen and that they were something else. There’s no denying that the Heroes Reborn universe is different.

That was the point actually. The regular Hulk has failed to break the bands cast in this universe. The Hulk born of the HR energies shattered them.

That could just be a matter of stronger energies. I don’t see anything to indicate that the energies negated anything. Just that the physics within the HR-universe are different.

We don't know what kind of enbergy it was. It was likely a combination of many types. But the significance is that it was a strange energy from another universe. When Strange tried to use the Eye of Agomotto this energy zapped him through the Eye itself. When he tried to approach the Hulk it blocked his spells and stopped him. This energy did not merely increase Hulk's strength. It actively affected things around him, including magic.

When did the Hulk block his spells? Are you talking about the Bands? Because if there was any blocking at all, it was done by the difference in physics. The Eye also successfully scanned him without making him go through. so I don’t really understand what you’re talking about?

Dr. Strange commented that the energies made him stronger and stronger. That suggests a purely physical purpose of the energies. Also, the Hulk didn’t seem to influence anything or anyone in the following issues leading up to War. And he was pretty much glowing all the time.

Whatever this energy was, Apocalypse felt it would allow him to defeat the Celestials themselves. Just giving Hulk a boost in strength would do nothing to help against a Celestial.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
That could just be a matter of stronger energies. I don’t see anything to indicate that the energies negated anything. Just that the physics within the HR-universe are different.

I'm referring to when the energy negated the Eye of Agamotto's scan and attacked Strange through the Eye instead. It's also established that magic, particularly Cyttorak magic, often doesn't work against something from outside of the universe. If the physics are different the magic's effect will likewise be different. Notably, in another Hulk/Dr.Strange story by the same writer, the Hulk was possessed by a being from another universe and was specifically said to be able to break the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak for the same reason.

When did the Hulk block his spells? Are you talking about the Bands?Because if there was any blocking at all, it was done by the difference in physics.

I'm talking about when the energy formed a forcefield around the Hulk and blocked Strange or his bolts from approaching him.

Dr. Strange commented that the energies made him stronger and stronger. That suggests a purely physical purpose of the energies.

That was a later side comment. The main consequence was that the energy was coming out of the Hulk's body and causing disruption on all levels. Breaking down "everything". Hulk's physical strength wasn't anyone's concern.

Also, the Hulk didn’t seem to influence anything or anyone in the following issues leading up to War. And he was pretty much glowing all the time.

He was creating energy disturbances. That's why people kept detecting him.

Yeah, but it wasn’t just your average boost. And the energy may be sufficient, but that doesn't’t mean a brick like Hulk would be. He was literally testing the tech. I don’t think he had the means to use only Hulk to defeat the Celestials, do you?

It's very possible. This energy could break down anything and had the potential to destroy the universe. Harnessed in the right way that poses a threat to even the Celestials. Apocalypse didn't seek the Hulk out because of his physical strength. He sought the Hulk out because Hulk was a walking fount of unlimited energy. Energy that manifested outwardly, not just gave Hulk a strength boost.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Ofcourse it contraditcs his previous feats. It was to shock the reader that the Juggernaut was not completely unstoppable. And Juggernaut has an unhealthy relationship with Magic, I know. But the Thing is, Juggy was pretty shocked himself. It magic was negating his enchantment and Juggy himself knew about his, then why the shock? War's strength was enhanced, so the point the writer was making is that it was enough to stop him in his tracks. It's debatable, but only because you can't prove a negative.

Be honest to yourself for a moment. I agreed that you can take from it what you want, if you're really desperate. But that kind of 'reasoning' can be applied anywhere.

Why or how would Juggernaut know ahead of time so as to not be shocked? 😕 I mean, I'm sure he probably now realizes what happened back then. Being unstoppable and then being stopped would shock just about anyone. Especially when you don't realize there's opposing magics at work.

Neither point was decisively proven. You technically can't prove the positive either. That's all I'm saying.