Originally posted by Alliance
Regardless, it far from disporves the very likely principle that Christianity co-opted from toher religions.We know many customs like the date and decor of Christmas were co-opted. Its logical that the religion did the same.
Christmas was designed from the zeal for conversion.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Predating the Bible itself does not mean that God did not make His will known.
Though there is no proof for that. Since most things that took place in the old testament didn't predate the earliest days of Egypt or the Sumerians...
So either God was down hob nobbing with the Ancient cultures and for some reason this resulted in polytheistic religion and God chose not to have the Jews record any of it (which seems strange considering some of the stuff that did get recorded)...
Or Christianity had no part to play in the rise of many of the ancient religions, but it is more the possible they had significant contributions to make to Christianity.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Though there is no proof for that. Since most things that took place in the old testament didn't predate the earliest days of Egypt or the Sumerians...So either God was down hob nobbing with the Ancient cultures and for some reason this resulted in polytheistic religion and God chose not to have the Jews record any of it (which seems strange considering some of the stuff that did get recorded)...
Or Christianity had no part to play in the rise of many of the ancient religions, but it is more the possible they had significant contributions to make to Christianity.
How could Christianity have had influences on cultures and religions that are/were eons older than it? Did the early Christians figure out time travel?
Originally posted by Robtard
How could Christianity have had influences on cultures and religions that are/were eons older than it? Did the early Christians figure out time travel?
I'm not claiming that, it was for Feceman, who suggested:
Predating the Bible itself does not mean that God did not make His will known.
Now, operating on the assumption that Christianity is the "correct" religion it would imply that the Christian God was somehow in contact with religions older then Judaism, but for some reason no one recorded it and the religions themselves show no sign of it. The other option then is that these ancient religions were in no way influenced by the Christian God, but it is possible they influenced Christianity.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I'm not claiming that, it was for Feceman, who suggested:Now, operating on the assumption that Christianity is the "correct" religion it would imply that the Christian God was somehow in contact with religions older then Judaism, but for some reason no one recorded it and the religions themselves show no sign of it. The other option then is that these ancient religions were in no way influenced by the Christian God, but it is possible they influenced Christianity.
I wasn't implying you were, I was just bringing up the question...
Funny if a Christian were to think that though taking into account the many and varied practices of older than Judaism/Christian religions... Cannibalism, human sacrifice, animal worship, celestial worship, nature worship, sexual worship etc.
Originally posted by FeceMan
A sudden thought before completely retiring to my bedchambers:It is possible that God originally spread His word through oral tradition; as time went on, the beliefs became fragmented and hazy at best, so it was then commanded that they be written down.
But an omnipotent entity would know this beforehand, so why set us up for failure?
Re: Jesus Christ is not Mithra
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[COLOR=indigo]http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/mithras.htm
[B]Mithras
By Mark McFall
This investigation of Mithraism will mainly focus on the critics assertion that Christianity borrowed the resurrection myth from Mithra. The reason that we will be zooming in on the resurrection and not similarities in sacraments is because the very heart of the Gospel rests in the resurrection narrative. If the resurrection was borrowed from pagan influences and did not historically happen, then as Paul says: "...if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain" (1 Corn. 15:14).
[/B]
Did Paul has ever seen Jesus of Nazareth(Yeshua) to witness the resurrecion? Absolutely, NO. He lives hundred years after the death of Christ. What he believes doesn't have any actual proofs other than following what is written in the book/writing(compiled later called as Bible) which the beliefs were much influenced of all existing religions that predates Christianity such as Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, Greeks mythology, as well as Buddhism that later influence in the western world.
Unlike Christians, historians have given perfectly plausible answers to these questions. The Bible is not a revelation from God, rather it is a compilation, a fairly untidy compilation, written by many different people, over many centuries, changed and edited from time to time, and containing legends, stories, genealogies, fables, sacred and secular writings. It is no more a revelation from God than are the Iliad or the Odyssey, the Ramayana or the Mahabharata, books which the Bible resembles quite closely.
"Don't believe in anything simply because you heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But after observation and analysis, you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept and live up to it." -- Shakyamuni, the Buddha
Re: Re: Jesus Christ is not Mithra
Originally posted by mahasattva
Did Paul has ever seen Jesus of Nazareth(Yeshua) to witness the resurrecion? Absolutely, NO. He lives hundred years after the death of Christ. What he believes doesn't have any actual proofs other than following what is written in the book/writing(compiled later called as Bible) which the beliefs were much influenced of all existing religions that predates Christianity such as Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, Greeks mythology, as well as Buddhism that later influence in the western world.Unlike Christians, historians have given perfectly plausible answers to these questions. The Bible is not a revelation from God, rather it is a compilation, a fairly untidy compilation, written by many different people, over many centuries, changed and edited from time to time, and containing legends, stories, genealogies, fables, sacred and secular writings. It is no more a revelation from God than are the Iliad or the Odyssey, the Ramayana or the Mahabharata, books which the Bible resembles quite closely.
"Don't believe in anything simply because you heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But after observation and analysis, you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept and live up to it." -- Shakyamuni, the Buddha
Paul saw Jesus Christ after He rose from the dead. Have you not read the Scriptures? Paul's original name was Saul before it was changed.
Acts 9
The Damascus Road: Saul Converted
1 Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”
Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”
6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”
Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
7 And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one. 8 Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. But they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.
Ananias Baptizes Saul
10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.”
And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”
11 So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12 And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”
13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”
15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.
19 So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus.
Saul Preaches Christ
20 Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.
21 Then all who heard were amazed, and said, “Is this not he who destroyed those who called on this name in Jerusalem, and has come here for that purpose, so that he might bring them bound to the chief priests?”
22 But Saul increased all the more in strength, and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that this Jesus is the Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:1
Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?
2 Timothy 4:17
But the Lord stood with me and strengthened me, so that the message might be preached fully through me, and that all the Gentiles might hear. Also I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.
Acts 23:11
But the following night the Lord stood by him and said, “Be of good cheer, Paul; for as you have testified for Me in Jerusalem, so you must also bear witness at Rome.”
Galatians 1:12
For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Paul (the apostle) received his knowledge of the gospel from Jesus Christ by revelation.
2 Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven.
Paul (the apostle) was taken to Heaven.
Acts 20:24
But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.
Paul (the apostle) received his call to the ministry from Jesus Christ.
Acts 26:13-19
13 at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. 14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ 15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Paul’s Post-Conversion Life
19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision
Paul (the apostle) relates his encounter with Jesus to King Agrippa.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Acts 26:13-1913 at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. 14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ 15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Paul’s Post-Conversion Life
19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision
Paul (the apostle) relates his encounter with Jesus to King Agrippa.
He was on some good drugs. 😆
I think Paul made this story up to gain power in the new growing movement.