Scorpian vs. Sabertooth

Originally posted by Horrificus
Wolverine's most potent power, when fighting "real" heroes, is that he is able to go full out, slicing, stabbing, and doing pretty much anything he feels like doing, (which is an enviable triat with a lot of people who suffer from low-honor count, and a condition known as "thinkitus coolicus 2 beathugitus". I'm sorry for my shabby latin.)
Anyway, to my mind, any time I see Logan in a fight against a character that has been written in a way that shows they are trying to accomplish a non-lethal, or non-maiming victory, I will always give them points over Wolverine.
Spidey and Cap hold back. They were written in a time when it was a good thing to be known as a "Good Guy". They were written to be heroes.
Logan is a "garbage" character that caters to the portion of Marvel's client-base who are striving to achieve a "Thug-Mentality".
Spidey holds back. Cap is NOT a psycho. They do not relish blood and butchery.

Because Wolverine isn't a naive, bleeding heart liberal who pussy foots around what needs to be done he is somehow less of a hero? Because he realises that both war and death or unavoidably and necessary he is a thug? No, he is realistic. Wolverine is a soldier and warrior, not some two bit thug, he has insight that Spider-man couldn't imagine. Most "heroes" believe that killing crosses some moral boundary that makes them no better then the villain they are fighting, while Wolverine isn't so arrogant as to believe he is better then they are in the first place. Spider-man is a liability. He constantly puts people (including his family) in danger because he is unwilling to do what needs to be done. He is unwilling to get his hands dirty, he is just playing a game and more importantly he is just playing at being a hero. Spider-man is living in Black and White, but the real world is shades of Grey and killing is often necessary.

I agree.
But, I believe that those who kill should be the only ones tofear being killed. Idealists like Cap and Spidey are far more valuable than Logan. They have been winning fights for years, without having to stoop to cheap tactics and over the top violence.
They are able to do exactly what the situation requires them to do. No more.
I guess Logan, and his writers are just unable to grasp that concept.
Dude, I feel bad for you if you are able to explain to yourself, why it is ok to stab or crotch-bash an unarmed, non-lethal opponent.
And, just as an FYI, I am far from a "Bleeding Heart"!
I just have a higher moral code than you do, and expect more from myself and others.
The only reason there is so much "Gray Area", is because people like you are increasing it's size.

Originally posted by Horrificus
I agree.
But, I believe that those who kill should be the only ones tofear being killed. Idealists like Cap and Spidey are far more valuable than Logan. They have been winning fights for years, without having to stoop to cheap tactics and over the top violence.
They are able to do exactly what the situation requires them to do. No more.
I guess Logan, and his writers are just unable to grasp that concept.
Dude, I feel bad for you if you are able to explain to yourself, why it is ok to stab or crotch-bash an unarmed, non-lethal opponent.
And, just as an FYI, I am far from a "Bleeding Heart"!
I just have a higher moral code than you do, and expect more from myself and others.
The only reason there is so much "Gray Area", is because people like you are increasing it's size.

Idealists are just that- Ideal. Not neccessarily more helpful, valuable or efficient then people like Logan. Who are realists.
They ATTEMPT to do what the situation requires them to do. But not neccessarily complete it. Spiderman postpones, or tones down the threat. Wolverine neutralizes it. He's not a thug, or a murderer- no more then any soldeir out at war.
Not everything fits into the catagory of an 'evil' act and a 'good' act.

Originally posted by Horrificus
I agree.
But, I believe that those who kill should be the only ones tofear being killed. Idealists like Cap and Spidey are far more valuable than Logan. They have been winning fights for years, without having to stoop to cheap tactics and over the top violence.
They are able to do exactly what the situation requires them to do. No more.
I guess Logan, and his writers are just unable to grasp that concept.
Dude, I feel bad for you if you are able to explain to yourself, why it is ok to stab or crotch-bash an unarmed, non-lethal opponent.
And, just as an FYI, I am far from a "Bleeding Heart"!
I just have a higher moral code than you do, and expect more from myself and others.
The only reason there is so much "Gray Area", is because people like you are increasing it's size.

Wolverine has said many times that if I guy comes at him with fists he meets him in kind. Aside from poorly written Spider-man issues Wolverine doesn't used his claws against unarmed opponents unless they are monsters like the Hulk (or anyone in his rogue gallery) who pretty much shrug it off. Kicking Spider-man in the nuts is about the nicest thing that Wolverine could do to Peter in a fight, all his other incapacitation options would kill Spider-man.

If thinking you are morally superior then me helps you sleep better, then by all means continue to believe it but I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone with a higher more code then mine though.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Idealists are just that- Ideal. Not neccessarily more helpful, valuable or efficient then people like Logan. Who are realists.
They ATTEMPT to do what the situation requires them to do. But not neccessarily complete it. Spiderman postpones, or tones down the threat. Wolverine neutralizes it. He's not a thug, or a murderer- no more then any soldeir out at war.
Not everything fits into the catagory of an 'evil' act and a 'good' act.

Ok, so, you are saying that if you end up in a fight with somebody that is KNOWN to be a non-lethal aggressor, with no wepons, it is ok to resort to "stabbing"? You are saying that this is a sign of "realism"?

I am not attackig you here. I really am trying to understand. If you knew who and what I was, you would understand that I am not a liberal or soft "anything".
But, I find it distressing when I hear people defeated into believing what you are stating.
If you lost a loved one this way, you would change your tune.
People always do.

Originally posted by Horrificus

But, getting your spinal cord torn in half usually has immediate results!
And, no, the bones do not need to break for this to happen.
Spidey would have killed Logan, if the places were switched.

You should check yourself before offering lectures-
You say that the so called 'non'lethal agressor' WOULD (not could, but would) KILL Logan if the places were switched.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
You should check yourself before offering lectures-
You say that the so called 'non'lethal agressor' WOULD (not could, but would) KILL Logan if the places were switched.

You didn't understand what I wrote.

By "switched", I meant if Spider Man was the one with the lack of restraint, instead of Logan.
If SM was acting the way Logan was acting, Logan would be dead.
But, SM had "restraint". He stopped before acting.