how do you feel about islam?

Started by Alliance31 pages

😆 You two should know better than this.

Do you think that the mjority of Muslims, the moderate majority, is not existant? The minorty are violent, hence they get a lot of coverage. If the majority of Muslims were part of the radical movement, then every Islamic nation in the world would have declared war on the US. NONE has.

The minority is more vocal than the majority. The majority of Islamic nations that I can recall (meybe all of them) condmened binLaden's attacks on 9-11. I'd say that an equally proportionate number of CHildern in the US are taught that Muslims are inhuman. Thankfully, the US also has a vocal moderate that tries to shut that down.

If that moderate were to become silent, I think we'd be living in a very different world.

I think similar things happened in the Middle east. The moderate majority doesn't have enough will to combat these radical elements because they sympathis with thier grievances against other nations, be it Isreal, the US or whatever.

Indeed. The reason for the lack of condemnation is that many people in predominantly muslim countries still have ill-will toward the West - as Alliance says, represented through the USA and Israel. It's not like they don't have reasons to be upset. Also, there's no reason for the media to report all the countries that criticise terrorism.

Anyway, Just because a minority is willing to use violence doesn't make the whole violent. Minorities have proven to be very good at hijacking the image of both themselves and the majority.

Originally posted by Alliance
😆 You two should know better than this.

Do you think that the mjority of Muslims, the moderate majority, is not existant? The minorty are violent, hence they get a lot of coverage. If the majority of Muslims were part of the radical movement, then every Islamic nation in the world would have declared war on the US. NONE has.

The minority is more vocal than the majority. The majority of Islamic nations that I can recall (meybe all of them) condmened binLaden's attacks on 9-11. I'd say that an equally proportionate number of CHildern in the US are taught that Muslims are inhuman. Thankfully, the US also has a vocal moderate that tries to shut that down.

If that moderate were to become silent, I think we'd be living in a very different world.

I think similar things happened in the Middle east. The moderate majority doesn't have enough will to combat these radical elements because they sympathis with thier grievances against other nations, be it Isreal, the US or whatever.

This shows evident lack of any knowledge apart from what TV tells you.

US? Us is not on the main outlook at all! It is the Jews and Israel which are the focus of Arab and Middle Eastern propaganda!

Because you are ignorant to what Arab and Middle Eastern tv and leaders say and show, you talk this bullshit.

Muslims do not believe US leads Israel against Muslims. Their main propaganda is that Israel and all the Jews are controling the USA and the West.

Please educate yourself a little regarding this, at least.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
This shows evident lack of any knowledge apart from what TV tells you.

US? Us is not on the main outlook at all! It is the Jews and Israel which are the focus of Arab and Middle Eastern propaganda!

Because you are ignorant to what Arab and Middle Eastern tv and leaders say and show, you talk this bullshit.

Muslims do not believe US leads Israel against Muslims. Their main propaganda is that Israel and all the Jews are controling the USA and the West.

Please educate yourself a little regarding this, at least.

I'm just wondering, where have you listened/ watched Arab news?

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
I'm just wondering, where have you listened/ watched Arab news?

You can get pieces of news, complete with translation over the internet.
If anyone bothered to search and research.

In fact, I cannot upload a movie with a large collection of those on google videos or youtube cos its too big. And I would persume illegal.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Oh thats right. I live in the west, and I have NO access to middle eastern television.

You can get pieces of news, complete with translation over the internet.

In fact, I cannot upload a movie with a large collection of those on google videos or youtube cos its too big. And I would persume illegal.

Wow. Thank you for that rant when I was being curious.

And a lot of our news is based on the Muslims in the Middle East.

I don't see your point - our media points to Iran and radical Muslims, suggesting they lead the Middle East in aggression against the West, and their media says the Israel and the Jews lead the West in aggression toward the Middle East and Islam itself.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Wow. Thank you for that rant when I was being curious.

sorry, but a lot of people have a random go at me about Islam, when they have no idea about anything.

I very often get sly comments based on absolutely nothing other than what they thing they should say.

Apologies.

Originally posted by Trickster
And a lot of our news is based on the Muslims in the Middle East.

I don't see your point - our media points to Iran and radical Muslims, suggesting they lead the Middle East in aggression against the West, and their media says the Israel and the Jews lead the West in aggression toward the Middle East and Islam itself.

Their media, is not like OUR media.

Our media does not allow people saying ''all jews are monkeys and pigs'' and ''death to america'' and things like ''blood of unbelievers will flow''.

At least not without critisism from people.

There are over 1 billion muslims in the world. Hundreds of them are members of terrorist groups. That's less than amount of criminals among christians or jews. And certanly media doesn't say anything about one billion peacefull men and women that work, go to school and raise children. Nobody cares about them. So whoever thinks that "mijority" of muslims is violent is ignorant or just stupid. As for hating jew, thousands of murdered inocent palestinians is a good reason to hate them.

Originally posted by Sam Z
There are over 1 billion muslims in the world. Hundreds of them are members of terrorist groups. That's less than amount of criminals among christians or jews. And certanly media doesn't say anything about one billion peacefull men and women that work, go to school and raise children. Nobody cares about them. So whoever thinks that "mijority" of muslims is violent is ignorant or just stupid. As for hating jew, thousands of murdered inocent palestinians is a good reason to hate them.

There is never any good reason to hate.

I find it hard to believe that the majority of Muslims watch news channels that have these claims. I don't deny their existence, though.

As for the hatred of Israel... Well, there are reasons for that. It's not like a central tenet of Islam is to hate Judaism.

I thought you said that the US was not mentioned on Arab media? And also, as an aside, how can something be both a monkey and a pig? (Some sort of Jewish Mig... Not quite sure how that would work, though).

What exactly do you object to in the Islamic faith?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
sorry, but a lot of people have a random go at me about Islam, when they have no idea about anything.

I very often get sly comments based on absolutely nothing other than what they thing they should say.

Apologies.

Their media, is not like OUR media.

Our media does not allow people saying ''all jews are monkeys and pigs'' and ''death to america'' and things like ''blood of unbelievers will flow''.

At least not without critisism from people.

Apology accepted, and sorry for being snappy.

Well, our media allows people to be called "Islamic Fascists" with no consequences.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Jihad is a holy war, and its been declared on everything non-Muslim, particulary so the west.

It wasn't quite that originally. It is one of the problems from 18th century European scholar's that the Jihad was viewed as simply a Muslim Crusade - which wasn't its actually meaning or function.

However the term has been twisted by modern terrorist cells and they use it in that sense, which is unfortunate, as it reaffirms the historically inaccurate use of it as the "Muslim Crusade."

And it must be remembered that the motives and claims of the terrorists doesn't stand up to there actions - "declared war on everything non-Muslim" - yet the majority of deaths in places like Iraq isn't the western contractors or soldiers, but rather Muslim civilians that the Terrorists are targeting.

Hijacked from what? The 7th century murdurous warlord tactics and updated it to today's terorism?

To my knowledge the Muslims in the 7th century (the founding period) weren't especially unique in their conduct, nor any worse then other groups/powers before, during or after the time. In fact they were less violant then many of them.

And certainly after that the Umayyads, the Abbasids and the Arabs were, in context, very good empires, especially in terms of what Alliance was talking about earlier in protecting and advancing intellectualism. It was, in my view, the coming of the Turks that did the most damage.

If it was a minority, we wouldn't hear about it all day every day, would we?

If it was a minority it would not attract so much attention BECAUSE MAJORITY would shut the MINORITY up.

Not really. Minorities are known to get the media attention. The masses who go about their lives not causing trouble don't draw attention to themselves - it is the minorities that cause the stir.

The unfortunate thing is that the attention drawing actions of the few tend to lead to majority being tarred with the same brush.

And I don't know how easy it would be for the majority to do anything - after all, the collective might of the worlds most powerful nation and its allies have been brought to bare... and hasn't really achieved anything.

The Majority love their Extremeist leaders, maybe not for the same reasons, but they're told Propaganda, and they believe it, so they want to kill us, the only "Majority" of Muslims that are "Nice" live outside the Middle East, which brings me to the Theory of, they hate the craphole of a place that is the Middle East, and if they see what we have, they'll stop being Violent bastards

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
The Majority love their Extremeist leaders, maybe not for the same reasons, but they're told Propaganda, and they believe it, so they want to kill us, the only "Majority" of Muslims that are "Nice" live outside the Middle East, which brings me to the Theory of, they hate the craphole of a place that is the Middle East, and if they see what we have, they'll stop being Violent bastards

Yet the Middle East is one of the most desirable bits of real estate on earth - oil and religion. Christians, Muslims and Jews all have an interest in the area.

As to the condition of the Middle East today - that responsibility doesn't solely rest with just the Muslims. It is often overlooked both the pros and cons the Western powers had on the Middle East during the colonial period.

Originally posted by dani_california
It is sort of a messed up religion but i say its fine as long as they seperate church from state which they DON'T in the middle east. That's the most ****ed up part of it. Guys getting stoned for cheating on their wives no matter how many they might have.

aye thats a big part of it, they talk about how peaceful their way of life is blah blah blah, ofcourse thats why they have to come and make america lovely and peacefull, just look how serene the place is now all thanks to islam.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
sorry, but a lot of people have a random go at me about Islam, when they have no idea about anything.

I very often get sly comments based on absolutely nothing other than what they thing they should say.

Apologies.

Now lil you know I agree with 99% of what you say. I agree with you that there is a problem with Islam and fundamentalism, but my problem is that you kinda give the impression that the Christians and Jews are perfect.

For example when you talked about the Crusades you made the Christians look like the good guys who were trying to liberate their lands. To be fair the Christians were just looking for an excuse to fight, because you must know that the Christian Crusaders massacred both Jews and Christians. In my opinion I think it was a possibility that the muslims who were attacking Christian pilgrims where Christians in disguise who wanted to start a war. Im saying this because in the Crusades it seems that the Christians were the most barbaric.

Concerning Judiasm, do you know some Orthodox Jews disagree with the state of Isarel? Do you also know that that some Orthodox jews see Zionism as a Jewish form of fascism. I dont agree with suicide bombing but you do know before the state of Isarel was formed that there were muslims living with Jews and alot of Arabs were kicked off their land and killed?

There is a problem with Islamic fudamentalism but sometimes you dont have a balanced arguement and you just see Islam as the ONLY problem, when Christanity and Judaism contribute as well.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Now lil you know I agree with 99% of what you say. I agree with you that there is a problem with Islam and fundamentalism, but my problem is that you kinda give the impression that the Christians and Jews are perfect.

For example when you talked about the Crusades you made the Christians look like the good guys who were trying to liberate their lands. To be fair the Christians were just looking for an excuse to fight, because you must know that the Christian Crusaders massacred both Jews and Christians. In my opinion I think it was a possibility that the muslims who were attacking Christian pilgrims where Christians in disguise who wanted to start a war. Im saying this because in the Crusades it seems that the Christians were the most barbaric.

Concerning Judiasm, do you know some Orthodox Jews disagree with the state of Isarel? Do you also know that that some Orthodox jews see Zionism as a Jewish form of fascism. I dont agree with suicide bombing but you do know before the state of Isarel was formed that there were muslims living with Jews and alot of Arabs were kicked off their land and killed?

There is a problem with Islamic fudamentalism but sometimes you dont have a balanced arguement and you just see Islam as the ONLY problem, when Christanity and Judaism contribute as well.

Christians and Jews are far from perfect. I do not claim that.
We are not, afterall having an argument regarding Christians OR Jews.

When people are talking about the fallibility of Christianity noone EVER says anything regarding Islam being bad.

This often used tecnique of ''Islam is bad BUT Christianity is too'' is very poor and I strongly disagree with it.

Noone ever says ''Christians are bad, but Muslims did this and this and this'', while people very often say ''Muslims are bad but Christians are effing worse''

It is a technique of shaming one to reclaim the other. Its weak, and very unconvincing.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
It wasn't quite that originally. It is one of the problems from 18th century European scholar's that the Jihad was viewed as simply a Muslim Crusade - which wasn't its actually meaning or function.

However the term has been twisted by modern terrorist cells and they use it in that sense, which is unfortunate, as it reaffirms the historically inaccurate use of it as the "Muslim Crusade."

And it must be remembered that the motives and claims of the terrorists doesn't stand up to there actions - "declared war on everything non-Muslim" - yet the majority of deaths in places like Iraq isn't the western contractors or soldiers, but rather Muslim civilians that the Terrorists are targeting.

This info is incorrect.

Jihad as an idea and as a goal existed BEFORE Islamic expantion to Persia and Europe, and it can never be called Islamic Crusaide, because the Crusaide begun because the safety of Christians in Christian holy land, which was occupied by Muslims was no longer guaranteed.

furthermore, the best place to look for what Jihad has to say, is to look at Hadiths, and what Muhammad said regarding it.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
To my knowledge the Muslims in the 7th century (the founding period) weren't especially unique in their conduct, nor any worse then other groups/powers before, during or after the time. In fact they were less violant then many of them.

And certainly after that the Umayyads, the Abbasids and the Arabs were, in context, very good empires, especially in terms of what Alliance was talking about earlier in protecting and advancing intellectualism. It was, in my view, the coming of the Turks that did the most damage.

Again, no.

Arabia was predominantly Jewsih at the time. Muhammad and his followers, expelled and murdered ALL Jews and Christians in the Arabia at the time, through war and raids.

Why, Muhammad himself beheaded a whole tribe of Jews, killing between 600 and 900 men.

A famous story, which is roudly studied in the Middle East and Arabia, is the torture of Rabi of one of the tribes, ordered by Muhammad himself, in order to obtain information as to where Jewish gold and treasures were.

The raise of Islam came through a sword.

For more information, I suggest ''Life of Muhammad'' There is a free version online. I'll hook you up with a link.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Not really. Minorities are known to get the media attention. The masses who go about their lives not causing trouble don't draw attention to themselves - it is the minorities that cause the stir.

The unfortunate thing is that the attention drawing actions of the few tend to lead to majority being tarred with the same brush.

And I don't know how easy it would be for the majority to do anything - after all, the collective might of the worlds most powerful nation and its allies have been brought to bare... and hasn't really achieved anything.

I tend to disagree.
Hate preaching is not condemened at all to the extent in which it should have.

Only people who condem such behaviour are non-muslims who are usually called bigoted and hated.

Why, a Muslims fundamentalist came ona radio just few days ago, praising 9/11 and 7/7 bombers as great people.
12 minutes of air time. Shocking.

Furthermore, if Islam was a religion of peace, no twisted mind could possibly turn it into a terrorist heaven.

As I have already mentioned, in Islamic theology, Muhammad is considered the 'perfect man' whos example is to be followed.

If you read the historical account of Muhammad's life, you will find that Terrorist have converted 7th century warlord type behaviour which when transleted in 21st century produces terrorism.

As I have mentioned numerous times before - there are peaceful and moderate muslims, but here is no peaceful and moderate Islam.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Christians and Jews are far from perfect.

Ok now I know that im cool.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness

When people are talking about the fallibility of Christianity noone EVER says anything regarding Islam being bad.

Ok fair enough I just got the wrong impression.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness

This often used tecnique of ''Islam is bad BUT Christianity is too'' is very poor and I strongly disagree with it.

Noone ever says ''Christians are bad, but Muslims did this and this and this'', while people very often say ''Muslims are bad but Christians are effing worse''

It is a technique of shaming one to reclaim the other. Its weak, and very unconvincing.

Well thats not the reason why im pointing this out. Fair enough this discussion is about Islam and eventhough there is a problem with Islamic fundamentalism I am just trying to elaborate on the point that there is a problem with the three major religons in general it does not negate from anything you said.