how do you feel about islam?

Started by lil bitchiness31 pages

Originally posted by Alliance
Really? Maybe it has something to do with our craptastic foreign policy. 😐

However, I will say that I think Europe is incredibly more xenophobic than the US is, although its certainly catching up. Europe is not helping the situation in the Middle East either.

Also, your perception of American politics is a bit narrow. The administration here has lost all the power Al-Queda gave them and then some. Bush may have the platform, but he doesn't have an audience. 2008 can't get here soon enough.

I'm glad you don't think that an Islamic invasion is going to destroy society, since you didn't readdress that point.

Which army was that?

Islamic invasion of Europe, not USA, was my point to begin with. I never even mentioned USA. You did.
And I did not say it will ''distroy'' society, again something you said. isaid west will burn under the Islamic wrath - which does not literaly mean Muslims will set fire to it.

America tenchincally shouldn't be xenophobic, since America is built on immigration - not that it stopped some people.

Regardless, Anti-Americansim is on the raise. Many Europeans look down upon Americans, and it does not just have to do with policy of USA - it has to do with culture.

So you believe that Muslims will not conform to the popular culture in Europe, LB?

Originally posted by Alliance
Really? Maybe it has something to do with our craptastic foreign policy. 😐

However, I will say that I think Europe is incredibly more xenophobic than the US is, although its certainly catching up. Europe is not helping the situation in the Middle East either.

Also, your perception of American politics is a bit narrow. The administration here has lost all the power Al-Queda gave them and then some. Bush may have the platform, but he doesn't have an audience. 2008 can't get here soon enough.

I'm glad you don't think that an Islamic invasion is going to destroy society, since you didn't readdress that point.

Which army was that?

German Army

Originally posted by Eis
It's not, I've no idea why I said that but it doesn't change anything. Regardless of whatever the bible might say Christians do not go around hanging homosexuals or stoning adulterers.
It's futile and nonsensical to claim modern day Christianity is at the same level of absurdity as modern day Islam.

Yes, not anymore thank goodness.

And I wasn't saying they were. Christianity has been fortunate enough to have moved beyond its bloody past. But it does have a bloody past. People stopped taking the Bible as literally - though there are still those who think gays have little demons crouching on their shoulders and that the world is only a few thousand years old.

Islam, in many of its strong hold nations has not benefited from a liberalisation, or a modernisation. Modern day Islam has far to much in common with its ancient form, which was a product of its times. Does that mean Islam is beyond such adaption? I have seen no evidence to believe so. Will it happen? Certainly I know in Australia their are plenty of very forward thinking Muslims who are pious yet with the times, but there are also some backwards ones as well. One can only hope if Islam survives that it moves forward on a far larger basis. But then again I think the world would be moving in a good direction if there was less religion all together.

Third Islamic invasion of Europe has begun. And this time, it will not be stopped at Vienna like it was on Setpember 11th 1683.
Actually, I think it already advanced way beyond than that.
The west will burn under the warth of Islam. I hope it doesn't, but I feel it might. West was on the verge of burning 2 times prior to now.

Truly, those who cannot remember history are doomed to repet it.

I know it is true!!!! I found a Muslim hiding under my bed with a Red!!! Plotting to take my freedoms they were!

To be honest the East will likely play a far larger part in the future due to the wests inability to provide the bodies needed to meet industrial numbers.I have heard theories about the mass migrations that will see large movements of people as nations with declining populations import workforces, and it just so happens Islamic countries have lots of people. That is far more likely then real invasion.

Of course in such a situation cultures will merge, change and new things will be born out of it. If it is a cultural invasion you mean, well, such things need not be viewed negatively. Very, very rarely can two cultures meet and only one of them change. It is a two way street most often. Culture evolves like anything, attempting to keep it isolated in fear it might be "Islamicised" would serve no purpose. In fact I can imagine one lecturer I had a couple of years ago and what he would say - something like "If a culture lacks the staying power to resist outside cultural influence then it probably deserves to be assimilated since it clearly isn't healthy as it is" - I don't know if I would agree but eh.

But somehow I doubt it is as sinister as "Islamic invasions" and "The west burning under the wrath of Islam" - that is far to much in line with doom-saying then likelihoods supports by historical realities.

Originally posted by TRH
German Army

Ok. I was just hoping it was not the Nazi Army 😖

I would hate it if Muslims took over, it would smell and no one would shave thier beards 😛

Originally posted by Alliance
Ok. I was just hoping it was not the Nazi Army 😖
lol no

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I would hate it if Muslims took over, it would smell and no one would shave thier beards 😛

Not even the women!?scared

nope

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Firstly and fore mostly, the ridiculous Nixon conned ''War on Drugs'' crap which is the most ridiculous thing ever. It has opened an underground market of drugs and narcotics which is funding brutal dictators around the world. Great!

Globalisation? New World Order?

I don't hate America, but Europe should stop reflecting itself on USA - from laws up to everything else.
China is the next one to tip the scale of power. And will happen. Maybe it will be worse? Or maybe not. We'll see.

And I don't hate ''west''. Places such as France, Canada (haven't been, but I am guessing from what I know), Greece, Cyprus!!!!, Italy, Spain are amazing.
England is not good for 2 things - weather and food.

Besides, just because your history books are not concerned with too distant history of Middle East and Asia, does not mean I hate west.

Absolutely, I agree. I was just looking for a little clarification.

It's just important to remember that not all Americans are that type of American. So, maybe you could try to be a little less demeaning to Americans in general by being more specific about your problems with our government.

As for Nixon's drug war, you're right. But he's not just proping up dictators. The "war on drugs" has caused a foreign policy that is also decimating the economies of some third world countries that need the by products for their economy to even exist. This is not only funding dictators, but it's bankrupting economies in the third world.

As for Europe, I don't live in Europe, so I don't see a whole lot of what's going on there. But if they're trying to be more like us, then they need to rethink what they envy.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It seems that both Christianity and Islam are just alike. Is there a planet somewhere we can drop them all off together. 😆

Tell me about it! Muslim fundamentlists want to rule the earth. Im like "Sure you can have it, we'll take Mars.", no doubt they would find some excuse to come to Mars and cause trouble.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
So you believe that Muslims will not conform to the popular culture in Europe, LB?

I don't think I have implied that at any point, but regardless, have they conformed so far?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Yes, not anymore thank goodness.

And I wasn't saying they were. Christianity has been fortunate enough to have moved beyond its bloody past. But it does have a bloody past. People stopped taking the Bible as literally - though there are still those who think gays have little demons crouching on their shoulders and that the world is only a few thousand years old.

Islam, in many of its strong hold nations has not benefited from a liberalisation, or a modernisation. Modern day Islam has far to much in common with its ancient form, which was a product of its times. Does that mean Islam is beyond such adaption? I have seen no evidence to believe so. Will it happen? Certainly I know in Australia their are plenty of very forward thinking Muslims who are pious yet with the times, but there are also some backwards ones as well. One can only hope if Islam survives that it moves forward on a far larger basis. But then again I think the world would be moving in a good direction if there was less religion all together.

I know it is true!!!! I found a Muslim hiding under my bed with a Red!!! Plotting to take my freedoms they were!

To be honest the East will likely play a far larger part in the future due to the wests inability to provide the bodies needed to meet industrial numbers.I have heard theories about the mass migrations that will see large movements of people as nations with declining populations import workforces, and it just so happens Islamic countries have lots of people. That is far more likely then real invasion.

Of course in such a situation cultures will merge, change and new things will be born out of it. If it is a cultural invasion you mean, well, such things need not be viewed negatively. Very, very rarely can two cultures meet and only one of them change. It is a two way street most often. Culture evolves like anything, attempting to keep it isolated in fear it might be "Islamicised" would serve no purpose. In fact I can imagine one lecturer I had a couple of years ago and what he would say - something like "If a culture lacks the staying power to resist outside cultural influence then it probably deserves to be assimilated since it clearly isn't healthy as it is" - I don't know if I would agree but eh.

But somehow I doubt it is as sinister as "Islamic invasions" and "The west burning under the wrath of Islam" - that is far to much in line with doom-saying then likelihoods supports by historical realities.

Cultural ''invasion'' as you put it, is being done by America not by Islam. Thats the by product of being the most powerful nation in the world.
I have not mentioned cultural invasion, nor did I imply there will be a hordes of Muslims attacking America.
But if you feel better interpreting it like that - go for it.

I forget that you bleat your little words of political correctness at everyone here, that you never actually read any books related to the topic, or remotely related to the topic of Islam.
So, let me spare you writing a shit long posts about nothing -

Third Islamic Invasion of Europe is a book by Prof. Raphael Israeli, which is representative of the fast-changing face of Europe, which the Islamic history professor says is in danger of becoming "Eurabia" within half a century.

Since at this point, we are doing a large pieces on ''State Based Violence'' we had an honour of being informed about an upcoming book its contreversies, and have had a chance to e-mailed prof in regards to information regarding his claims, but most importantly, since we were doing ''State Based violence'' to ask about the state based violence of Israel and Palestine.

So, since I tend to forget, that your ''experteese'' of Islam starts and ends at this forum, I should have perhaps seen more clearly that you would not have, unless actively engaged in research on Islam and middle east, any idea in regards to what was implied by Third Islamic Invasion of Europe, and thus you were unable to deliver any argument beyond weak sarcasm.

Also, just to give you a hint, Prof israeli discusses the idea of Eurabia, extencivelly used by Bat Ye’or!

But now you know. And keep an eye for the book.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Prof. Raphael Israeli

That strikes me as ironic.

Ask Ghazul Omid how she feels about Islam

Re: how do you feel about islam?

Originally posted by hardwoodman
Are they really predisposed to world domination$

I have followed some teachings. I guess u could say I am multi religious

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Ask [b]Ghazul Omid how she feels about Islam [/B]

Yeah, she had an extrealy difficult childhood.

Also, why doesn't he ask -

Ali Sina, Ibn Warraq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Parvin Darabi, Salman Rushdie, Wafa Sultan, Walid Shoebat, Taslima Nasrin, Haji Mohammad, Dr. Muhammed Rahoumy, Irshad Manji, V.S.Naipaul...

what THEY think about Islam.

Islam's biggest critics and condemers are not non-Muslims, or Christians, so they are discredited (Robert Spencer) or Jews (Raphael Israeli or Bat Ye’or), actually it is ex-Muslims, who are the most ouspoken, the most vicious and the most blunt when it comes to Islam.

Ali Sina's book is coming out soon (although there isn't a date yet), its called ''Understanding Islam and Muslim Mid''.
Watch out for it...if you are at all interested in Islam.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Ask [b]Ghazul Omid how she feels about Islam [/B]
Do you really think putting text in bold would make more people reply to you?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Cultural ''invasion'' as you put it, is being done by America not by Islam. Thats the by product of being the most powerful nation in the world.
I have not mentioned cultural invasion, nor did I imply there will be a hordes of Muslims attacking America.
But if you feel better interpreting it like that - go for it.

I didn't think I said anything about the US either... yes, I checked, I didn't mention anything about the US.

And if your think that cultural influence is limited only to the US or can only be done by being powerful then you are sadly mistaken.

I forget that you bleat your little words of political correctness at everyone here, that you never actually read any books related to the topic, or remotely related to the topic of Islam.
So, let me spare you writing a shit long posts about nothing -

Oh well, I am pleased we are all being civil and trying to debate on an intellectual plane. And sorry if my "shit long posts" hurt your eyes or something. But not enough not to do another one now.

And have you been monitoring my reading habits? Or are you just assuming because my view isn't the same as yours logically I can't have read the any books on the subject? Maybe in the course of my studies I just haven't read any that have a view as singular or damning as your own. But then maybe you could accuse my university and its library of being overly politically correct, since that seems to be a good attack in cases such as this.

Third Islamic Invasion of Europe is a book by Prof. Raphael Israeli, which is representative of the fast-changing face of Europe, which the Islamic history professor says is in danger of becoming "Eurabia" within half a century.

Oh my God. Oh my God. How very, very, very funny. And coincidental. And Ironic. The good Professor was recently in Australia, and it just so happens he created a storm of controversy. His presence here was meant to be for a series of lectures, but he used one opportunity to advise Australia and its politicians to consider stopping Muslim immigration before we risk being overrun by Muslims, and how once numbers reach a "critical mass" there is a risk of "violence" and all sorts of other nasty things. I followed his arguments and the numerous peoples counter arguments with great interest. Clearly it is no just Europe in danger of being taken over by Muslims... it is AUSTRALIA TO!!!! And because everybody who disagrees with him is clearly just a politically correct sheep, well, we all deserve to get drowned by Indonesians forcing Islam on us. Or something.

And I notice how you say "in danger of" yet in your earlier post it's "and this time it wont be stopped". Your earlier post makes it sound like a forgone conclusion. Best grow a beard and convert now because the west will burn. Yet this post makes it sound like a theory - just one more theory amongst others.

Anyway this brought to many peoples minds another professor who recently made a case for why western nations taking on large numbers of African refugees was bad because when you get to many black people together you get crime increases. It is notable the Australia Jewish academic community distanced themselves from his remarks. It is notable many other academics came forward to question his theories (as well as Muslim and Christians who wanted to cash in on the ill feeling he created), and drew comparisons to him and other experts who have presented similar, questionable views in the past - be they about Islam or Africans or whoever. But you have a cover all for them, don't you? They are just "bleating their little words of political correctness at everyone" - aren't they? (By the way - have you been using Deano's speech writer? That bleating line is classic Deano. Now you just need to use "open your eyes" and you'll be set.)

Since at this point, we are doing a large pieces on ''State Based Violence'' we had an honour of being informed about an upcoming book its contreversies, and have had a chance to e-mailed prof in regards to information regarding his claims, but most importantly, since we were doing ''State Based violence'' to ask about the state based violence of Israel and Palestine.

Ummm - good for you? And it is good you mention its controversies - because there seem to be plenty. Dare I ask if your response to criticism of this was just to saying something about bleating PC?

And by chance to you email any other people? The Prof. opponents? People with different views? Or did you just take the information regarding his claims at face value?

So, since I tend to forget, that your ''experteese'' of Islam starts and ends at this forum, I should have perhaps seen more clearly that you would not have, unless actively engaged in research on Islam and middle east, any idea in regards to what was implied by Third Islamic Invasion of Europe, and thus you were unable to deliver any argument beyond weak sarcasm.

Sigh. I am very disappointed, you are usually better then that.

But no, my "experteese" (what ever that means) on Islam has nothing to do with this forum. Nor regrettably is it limited only to men like Raphael Israeli who while having some interesting ideas (I remember reading a paper on the US attempts to bring Muslim countries on side following 9/11 very interesting and well written) didn't stop even hard line Australian Jews mused aloud how questionable Israeli can be sometimes (that is about how his view might be colored or how objective it might be.) But then again I don't tend to got bogged down with Hero worship as you seem to be doing. So you have found a historian whose views are in line with your own about how dangerous Islam is? Good for you. I have no problem with Isreali, and think he has some good points, but his work is not gospel.

The point I was taking was more to do with political views on how Islamisation of the west could more take place - a subject I enjoy immensely, and how any "Islamic Invasion" will be more to do with social issues in western nations whereby increasingly disenfranchised people will find comfort, release or justificationwith those sectors of society that advocate change - you know the "I am angry at the world, this religion/political group/ideology tells me to smash it up, and that is good because I want to and feel I am doing the right thing". I am more of the opinion that instead of demonizing the religion they will turn to because it focuses there anger it would make more sense to tackle the social issues that lead to the people turning to begin with. Because, you know, if they have no reason to turn they are somewhat less likely to. But sadly for many that is hard, far easier to roar about the evils of Islam, and how it beguiles people into following it, and how it is useless to look at the reasons why this is so for answers since "they hate us" will do.

And for a person who uses a quote like "Truly, those who cannot remember history are doomed to repeat it" you yourself seem to be doing exactly that. I can think of a number of cases where a group has been described by others as some massive threat to life and society as we know it. Your little "Third Islamic invasion of Europe has begun..." spiel brought to mind things like the afore mentioned anti-African immigration professor, Senator McCarthy, ancient and Modern Muslims themselves, hell, even some of the early Nazi party rhetoric.

Oh yes, I remember history, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with all the cases of people claiming the world as we know it is on the brink of terrible things - real or metaphorical - at the hands of a religion or politics or ideology or immorality or whatever. Doing so will show it is never as clear cut, black/white as these claims make out, and can be just as revealing about the people making the claims as the people being feared.

edit