Birth of Darth vader

Which, getting back on topic, is about Vader being under "Tarkin's leash".

I suspect that this mostly has to do with vader.

He's burned, scarred, not physically what he was. He's lost his wife, his kid(s), and he hasn't grown in the Force.

He is responsible for the deaths of all the Jedi, and wishes he hadn't done it. He clings on to his anger and hate, but in a hollow, depressed way.

I think the reason that he comes alive in ESB is mostly due to the fact that he knows Luke is alive.

He's got his son back, part of Padme, part of him. It's like the fire that was laying dormant was stoked, and he goes off.

Plus, the Death Star project was Tarkin's baby, and so while Vader didn't take any shit from the other generals, he would still be under Tarkin's command.

Plus, he argues with him anyway: "I told you she would never conciously betray the rebellion."

"I must face him... alone!"

I always felt that they were equals, they were just on Tarkin's turf.

Perhaps... but it still feels like Vader has a superior after 20 years. And then suddenly he's the head honco after the emperor.

Vader probably spent 19 years whining.

TOSHI STATION!!!!!

Originally posted by sithsaber408

I think the reason that he comes alive in ESB is mostly due to the fact that he knows Luke is alive.

Hmm very possible. Even the emperor was surprised by vader's new zeal. I guess he got back on track starting from obi-wan's return. Kinda re-ignited his old quest for power. The emperor couls sense vader's sudden unbecoming enthusiast, in RotJ, he ask of him whether his "mind is clear on the matter" when vader said he sensed luke, but palpy did not.

Maybe... still, if that means Vader became this obedient lapdog after ROTS... that'd kinda disappoint me and make him quite pathetic. And I'd hate that.

The problem is and always will be that they were written out of order and GL just ****ed up bid time trying to make them link together. Which in some ways he did but in others he soooo didnt.

He would of been better of writting three sequels ans prequels always end bad, in the fake they just dont work. As they look better though they are set before the OT and he had to do them in three films when maybe he needed four to make them work properly.

Perhaps, but linking them up shouldn't have been so difficult. I think the choice for explaining how Palpy came to power and use that as background for the Anakin story is not a wise one. Political topics are only good in films like JF, Nixon, all the president's men etc... but that is not LUcas's field of expertise. He should have stayed away from it and kept it simple. That way they would at least have been room for Anakin to be a genuine hero we could all cheer for and the "great friend" that OB1 mentioned in ANH.

But the politics added so much to the story. I'm serious.

Agree. While illuminating, it actually confuses confuses some people. Though i must admit the deep sense of mystery surrounding the plot of AoTC that makes me attracted to it initially.

I jsut have a problem with Lucas' poor handling of the politics. THAT is why people got confused.

That is it though. Lucas handles it poorly, so he shouldn't have ventured there, stayed a way from it and tell the story with the background that the series title implies: Star WARS! Not "Star Politics".

Aren't wars part of politics?

Aren't politics part of wars?

They are, but the boring part.

Originally posted by queeq
Maybe... still, if that means Vader became this obedient lapdog after ROTS... that'd kinda disappoint me and make him quite pathetic. And I'd hate that.

Vader always was his obedient lap-dog.

Kinda part of the whole master-aprentice relationship.

He kills many Jedi, including children, becuase Palpatine tells him to.
He kills the seperatist leaders, because Palpatine tells him to.

"I will do anything that you ask"
"I pledge myself to your teachings."

He was doing these things in order to get the power of saving Padme, thinking that he could overthrow Sidious later on.

Two things happened:

1.) He is injured horribly and loses much of his fighting skills.
2.) His wife and child are killed.

This removes pretty much all ambitions that he would have had.

He is no longer the most-powerfull-Jedi-ever, up and coming in his abilities.....

he is bleak, despondent, angry yes but not at palps, and simply....PWNT.

The fact that Sidious WAS his master, and the fact that he quite literally lost everything, explains his position in EPIV.

As I said before, I feel that he was more of Tarkin's equal, they were just on Tarkins turf, his death star pet-project.

He sure doesn't take any shit from any of the other generals. 😛

He just has no reason to overthrow the Emporer any more.

You or I might not have responded that way, but Anakin's always been a little emontionaly soft, somewhat of an emo. 😛

Seriously, once he knows that Luke is alive (I agree with cybervader, that seeing Obi-wan again is what sparked it off) he's on fire.

Now he has something to live for again, somebody to convince of ruling the galaxy with him, and (same as the Emporer saw) somebody who could have the Force ability and physical skills developed in him to be what Anakin should have become.

It's a stretch, but for me, ... not too far.

I buy it.

No no, I get it. It makes sense. But then I wonder why the hell Anakin is such a great character to make a six-part saga about. He's a wuss, a weenie, a tragic but unsympathetic character who has one good movie (ESB)...

Originally posted by queeq
No no, I get it. It makes sense. But then I wonder why the hell Anakin is such a great character to make a six-part saga about. He's a wuss, a weenie, a tragic but unsympathetic character who has one good movie (ESB)...

Have to agree with you on that if GL couldnt write the politic well he should of tried and stayed away from it.

Just a litttle point, if I lost my wife and children I would make evryone pay andnot turn into a leather clad ***** for 20years, sorry but its true.

Originally posted by queeq
No no, I get it. It makes sense. But then I wonder why the hell Anakin is such a great character to make a six-part saga about. He's a wuss, a weenie, a tragic but unsympathetic character who has one good movie (ESB)...

Yeah. Its kind of like how i wonder why people who think the darkside is a wrong answer and unbalanced support it in their "Location"

Errr... yeah.

Revan, yeah that kinda is my problem. What happened to Anakin? So yeah, maybe he died and became Darth Vader. But then I must conclude Vader's an empty shell. Somehow I am beginning to wonder of Lucas just didn't totally trash the greatest movie villain into a pathetic guard dog... In that case I prefer Maul.

I've been discussing Sw for well over7 years now, and for some reason I cannot remember the OT having such serious character problems when thinking things through. Yoda and Mace sure deminished the glamour of the Jedi. Mace Alliance already discussed quite intensively ( 😉 ), but I was thinking about Yoda and OB1 the other day. That scene with the kids in AOTC... what the hell was that about? These great and powerful Jedi need kids to state the blatant obvious that a planet has been erased from the Jedi files??? That is like... DUHHH.... hello?! Are you the great Jedi Masters? Anybody home???

I can discuss Yoda and Kenobi too 😉