I shouldn't be surprised that this thread grew so fast, but I am. I haven't read all of the replies, but I want to know what all of you think.
I believe that the Republicans can no longer be trusted to run the USA's government.
I believe that they are more concerned for the rights of the corporations that donate millions to them over the rights of the poor and middle class citizens.
I believe they would keep US troops in Iraq for years rather than admit that it was a mistake to invade it. Almost 3,000 US soldiers have died so far, and it has made terrorism worse, not better. It reminds me of the Vietnam War.
I am very angry about the mistakes that the Bush Administration has done, and the President's refusal to admit those mistakes.
Originally posted by Madacapa
I believe that they are more concerned for the rights of the corporations that donate millions to them over the rights of the poor and middle class citizens
lets be fair. thats become the whole of our government
only problem is bush/cheney/neocons' biggest special interest is in oil companies...and well....here we are....screwed
Originally posted by PVS
lets be fair. thats become the whole of our governmentonly problem is bush/cheney/neocons' biggest special interest is in oil companies...and well....here we are....screwed
Republicans get far more corporate donations than Democrats.
If you had to pick one party that cared more for Americans, its the Democrats, because they can't rely on donations from evil corporations like oil companies. Lets be practical here.
Originally posted by Madacapa
Republicans get far more corporate donations than Democrats.If you had to pick one party that cared more for Americans, its the Democrats, because they can't rely on donations from evil corporations like oil companies. Lets be practical here.
No, they just get their donations from other corporations. Add Unions and such to that... They don't care about you or me any more than the Republicans. All either party cares about is getting re-elected.
Originally posted by Madacapa
Republicans get far more corporate donations than Democrats.If you had to pick one party that cared more for Americans, its the Democrats, because they can't rely on donations from evil corporations like oil companies. Lets be practical here.
we are governed by special interests. its all corrupt. only oil is worse, since its dangerous and leads to tens of thousands dead per year and potentially global warming. its all corrupt though. all of it. to paint one side as a saint is incredibly naive.
Originally posted by docb77
I give him the benefit of the doubt. He's not the only one who was saying such things. Clinton did, Kerry did. Were they lying too?
Right you are.
Indeed, add Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clintion, Sen. Kennedy, and Howard Dean to John Kerry and President Clinton.
All voted for the war in Iraq, all thought (just as Bush did) that based on intel provided, Saddam had WMD.
Democrats (and their supporters) crack me up.
Just because you don't like Bush, he is the liar, while the others were just mistaken?
Originally posted by PVS
what cracks me up is the mentallity of a cult follower. they assume that everyone has the same unconditional trust and adoration for the people who claim to represent their side. this is the basis of their arguments, and why they think they 'win' by pointing out any flaw in the other party.
Is a desire for consistency wrong? Either Clinton and Kerry were lying about WMD's too, or you have to give Bush the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't mean you can't say he bungled it, just that if You're not calling other people on the same "lies" you have to give Bush the same pass.
Originally posted by docb77
Is a desire for consistency wrong? Either Clinton and Kerry were lying about WMD's too
and what does this prove? that they are all more concerned with their careers than the good of america? welcome to reality!!! oh wait, your implication is that they all thought it was the truth? ok, gnite *kiss*
Originally posted by docb77
or you have to give Bush the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't mean you can't say he bungled it, just that if You're not calling other people on the same "lies" you have to give Bush the same pass.
bush is the president. bush makes the decisions. the rest were just "mee tooo" cheerleaders. both clintons included. whats the point? how does this nullify bush's crimes?
Originally posted by PVSbush is the president. bush makes the decisions. the rest were just "mee tooo" cheerleaders. both clintons included. whats the point? how does this nullify bush's crimes?
How does it rectify the dem's crimes?
They share just as much blame, since it was the congress that voted to go to war. The president isn't an emperor, or a king, and quite a few of your beloved democratic leaders were behind him 100%.
They were either mistaken, or they are war criminals. You can decide for yourself.
But to say that Bush lied and is some evil-dictator type is pure rubbish.
He said that he believed Saddam had WMD, and that the intel backed it up.
Clinton said he believed it. (weren't there some targeted missile strikes, Clinton's favorite tool, against Baghdad in the mid-late 90's designed to target warehouses and factories believed to be making chemical and biological weapons?)
Many people looked at the faulty intel and believed it.
It seems as though your logic is flawed here PVS.
You: The president lied about the WMD.
Truth: He went off of faulty intel, and the advice of his cabinet.
You: Its all his fault.
Truth: Many democrats supported the war and the WMD theory and the removal of Saddam Hussein. Their votes for it prove this to be true.
You: !!!WRONG!!! Teh prezident is TEH EMPoreR1111 all teh decisions were hiz11 He is teh evil haXxorZ111!!!
❌
You don't have to like Bush or his policies, but you have to acknowledge that the War against Al-quieda, the war in Iraq, and now with the passing of this bill, the measures that we use to interrogate suspected terrorists....
were ALL supported by republicans and democrats alike.
And they are representative of many more millions of Americans who agree with them.
You can fight this all you wish, and try to distort the issue from the threats that we face and how we should deal with them, but that's your own affair.
I used to consider you a smart, well-informed debater who was a liberal and a democrat, that took several issues to heart and argued for them.
But now with the direct denial of your sides support/accountability for many of the things you are against, with your total blame for "George W. the King", and comments about GOP supporters being " the dumbass tough-talkers who have wet dreams of being teabag recipiants of the neocon agenda"......
I can't take you seriously.
You aren't an accurate representation of most liberals/democrats, you are part of a small minority that is hurt and angry that things beyond your control haven't gone your way, though most agree that the responses were correct.
And its people like you, with your deliberate denial of the way things are in this world, coupled with a support of abortions, gay marriage, porn, christian-bashing, and fairness to suspected terrorists that keeps people voting Republican.
Thanks bud. thumbsup
Originally posted by sithsaber408
How does it rectify the dem's crimes?They share just as much blame, since it was the congress that voted to go to war. The president isn't an emperor, or a king, and quite a few of your beloved democratic leaders were behind him 100%.
They were either mistaken, or they are war criminals. You can decide for yourself.
But to say that Bush lied and is some evil-dictator type is pure rubbish.
He said that he believed Saddam had WMD, and that the intel backed it up.
Clinton said he believed it. (weren't there some targeted missile strikes, Clinton's favorite tool, against Baghdad in the mid-late 90's designed to target warehouses and factories believed to be making chemical and biological weapons?)
Many people looked at the faulty intel and believed it.
It seems as though your logic is flawed here PVS.
You: The president lied about the WMD.
Truth: He went off of faulty intel, and the advice of his cabinet.
You: Its all his fault.
Truth: Many democrats supported the war and the WMD theory and the removal of Saddam Hussein. Their votes for it prove this to be true.
You: !!!WRONG!!! Teh prezident is TEH EMPoreR1111 all teh decisions were hiz11 He is teh evil haXxorZ111!!!
❌
You don't have to like Bush or his policies, but you have to acknowledge that the War against Al-quieda, the war in Iraq, and now with the passing of this bill, the measures that we use to interrogate suspected terrorists....
are ALL supported by republicans and democrats alike.
And they are representative of many more millions of Americans who agree with them.
You can fight this all you wish, and try to distort the issue from the threats that we face and how we should deal with them, but that's your own affair.
I used to consider you a smart, well-informed debater who was a liberal and a democrat, that took several issues to heart and argued for them.
But now with the direct denial of your sides support/accountability for many of the things you are against, with your total blame for "George W. the King", and comments about GOP supporters being " the dumbass tough-talkers who have wet dreams of being teabag recipiants of the neocon agenda"......
I can't take you seriously.
You aren't an accurate representation of most liberals/democrats, you are part of a small minority that is hurt and angry that things beyond your control haven't gone your way, though most agree that the responses were correct.
And its people like you, with your deliberate denial of the way things are in this world, coupled with a support of abortions, gay marriage, porn, christian-bashing, and fairness to suspected terrorists that keeps people voting Republican.
Thanks bud. thumbsup
Originally posted by sithsaber408
You: The president lied about the WMD.Truth: He went off of faulty intel, and the advice of his cabinet.
You: Its all his fault.
Truth: Many democrats supported the war and the WMD theory and the removal of Saddam Hussein. Their votes for it prove this to be true.
You: !!!WRONG!!! Teh prezident is TEH EMPoreR1111 all teh decisions were hiz11 He is teh evil haXxorZ111!!!
😆
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
sithsaber's right; your hatred of Bush makes you blame him for every little thing.
bush/cheney/rove intentionally leaked the i.d. of an undercover c.i.a. operative in order to keep the wmd myth alive, and the bill passed by congress (another "just trust me" blank check_ was under the condition that all diplomatic means would have to be exhausted before a military strike.
you can kick and cheer for sithsaber all you wish but it simply makes you both wrong. cheering for an imaginary argument with imaginary quotes topped with imaginary truths (congress voting for war/regime change: a lie) does not make you right. it just makes 2 foolish voices instead of 1.
Originally posted by PVS
bush/cheney/rove intentionally leaked the i.d. of an undercover c.i.a. operative in order to keep the wmd myth alive, and the bill passed by congress (another "just trust me" blank check_ was under the condition that all diplomatic means would have to be exhausted before a military strike.you can kick and cheer for sithsaber all you wish but it simply makes you both wrong. cheering for an imaginary argument with imaginary quotes topped with imaginary truths (congress voting for war/regime change: a lie) does not make you right. it just makes 2 foolish voices instead of 1.
Congress has the power to declare war, not the president.