Frist calls for efforts to bring Taliban into Afghan government

Started by PVS2 pages

Frist calls for efforts to bring Taliban into Afghan government

http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/ap/2006/10/02/asia/AS_GEN_Afghanistan_Frist.php

QALAT, Afghanistan U.S. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said Monday that the Afghan guerrilla war can never be won militarily and called for efforts to bring the Taliban and their supporters into the Afghan government.

The Tennessee Republican said he had learned from briefings that Taliban fighters were too numerous and had too much popular support to be defeated by military means.

"You need to bring them into a more transparent type of government," Frist said during a brief visit to a U.S. and Romanian military base in the southern Taliban stronghold of Qalat. "And if that's accomplished we'll be successful."

Frist said asking the Taliban to join the government was a decision to be made by Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

Sen. Mel Martinez, a Republican from Florida accompanying Frist, said negotiating with the Taliban was not "out of the question" but that fighters who refused to join the political process would have to be defeated.

"A political solution is how it's all going to be solved," he said.

In violence on Monday, a suicide bomber blew himself up next to a NATO convoy in the capital Kabul, wounding three soldiers and three civilians, while a roadside bomb in the eastern Paktia province killed three Afghan soldiers and wounded three others, officials said.

Afghanistan is being rocked by the worst outbreak of violence since the ouster of the Taliban regime in the U.S.-led invasion in 2001. Militants have increasingly resorted to suicide attacks and roadside bombs.

Frist, who said he would announce whether he would run for the U.S. presidency in about a month, said he had hoped that the United States would be able to withdraw its forces from Afghanistan soon. But the 20,000 U.S. troops are still needed to help the 37-country coalition deal with an intensifying Taliban insurgency.

"We're going to need to stay here a long time," Frist said.

The senator said he had been warned to expect attacks in Afghanistan to increase. There appears to be an "unlimited flow" of Afghans and foreigners, he said, "willing to pick up arms and integrate themselves with the Taliban."

He said the only way to win in places like Qalat is to "assimilate people who call themselves Taliban into a larger, more representative government."

"Approaching counterinsurgency by winning hearts and minds will ultimately be the answer," Frist said. "Military versus insurgency one-to-one doesn't sound like it can be won. It sounds to me ... that the Taliban is everywhere."

Frist and Martinez flew to this dust-blown mountain city 350 kilometers (220 miles) south of Kabul during a one-day stop in Afghanistan on a regional tour that includes stops in Pakistan and Iraq.

The pair had intended to visit a new US$6.5 million (€5.1 million) hospital in Qalat built by the United Arab Emirates, but a group of wounded Taliban fighters were recuperating there, including a midlevel commander, and U.S. commander Lt. Col. Kevin McGlaughlin canceled the visit because of security concerns.

The senators saw firsthand the legendary hostility to outsiders of tribal southern Afghanistan. As Frist's helicopter landed, children just outside the base threw stones. And the senator's first act on Forward Operating Base Lagman was to pin a purple heart on the base's medic, Capt. Jacqueline King of Tinton Falls, New Jersey, who had been badly burned in a June suicide bombing.

"It's rough," King, 42, told reporters and members of Frist's staff. "They're not exactly thrilled to see us here."

Soldiers based in Qalat have been hit by more than 100 roadside bombs since arriving in April, said Air Force Capt. Kevin Tuttle.

The troops here monitor the headquarters for a provincial reconstruction team that has been repairing roads, mentoring doctors at the new hospital and operating a trade school that teaches nursing, welding, auto repair and plumbing.

Frist also chatted with fellow Tennessee surgeon Lt. Col. Steve Jarrard, 46, of Johnson City, in the base hospital.

"I really hope we're doing the right thing over here," Jarrard said, the late afternoon sun burnishing the neighboring mountain peaks. "It's too expensive. I've seen too many guys on the operating table. I try to bring them through and I'm not always successful."

Three NATO-led troops received minor injuries in the suicide bombing in Kabul. Maj. Luke Knittig, a military spokesman, said he could not disclose the nationalities of the soldiers. The attack came two days after another suicide bomber killed 12 people and wounded more than 40 outside Afghanistan's Interior Ministry.

In the southern province of Helmand, clashes on Sunday left 10 people dead, including five civilians, said Ghulam Muhiddin, the governor's spokesman.

The civilians were killed when their vehicle hit a freshly planted mine on a road usually used by NATO and Afghan security forces in Helmand's Musa Qala district, Muhiddin said.

Suspected Taliban on a motorbike, meanwhile, killed two policemen in Gereshk district, he said. Separately, NATO-led troops killed three militants in Nawzad district.

discuss

*topic reposted for closed thread*

and once again for the recorded...retarted idea to bring the taliban into power

they were popular as a government because they stamped out corruption and may well get voted into power...(see my Hamas point in closed thread)

saying that...it would most likely be a different scenario because women can vote...i cant really see them voting taliban somehow

Originally posted by jaden101
and once again for the recorded...retarted idea to bring the taliban into power

they were popular as a government because they stamped out corruption and may well get voted into power...(see my Hamas point in closed thread)

saying that...it would most likely be a different scenario because women can vote...i cant really see them voting taliban somehow

Nailpolish = Cut-off Finger

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Nailpolish = Cut-off Finger

indeed...by the aptly named "ministry for the protection of virtue and prevention of vice"...and that was the least of womens worries under the taliban

the problem is how would you even begin negotiations if it were a plausible idea?

the ideals of the taliban are so at odds with sharia law (that they imposed in 1994 when they came to power) that there is no way to reconcile the 2 through negotiations

a related point is that the BBC are currently running a tv series about whether it is time to start negotiating with al-qaeda....there is clearly no middle ground that is acceptable to each party...it is a battle of ideals and either one of them prevails or the world retreats its quest for globalisation and we all go back to being nations of inward looking xenophobes

and even then i dont think that is possible given the increasing size of the worlds populations and our dependancy on other countries to provide goods etc

I find it ridiculous that people can actually try to argue for this. Also, most of those that do, are the same people who cited reasons for the invasion of Afghanistan like "Oh, the Taliban are bad. We're doing Afghanistan a favor..."!

If the ultimate reason for the invasion was to oust the terrorist-harbouring Taliban, how can anyone - who wishes to be taken seriously, Ush - really believe that this is the only option available. "They're bad, but we can't beat them, so let's put them back" - that's the basic reasoning.

its really been an eye opener for me. i was sure the response would not be what it was. it.....gives me a migrane if i try too hard to make sense of it...laboring over the impossible is draining

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I find it ridiculous that people can actually try to argue for this. Also, most of those that do, are the same people who cited reasons for the invasion of Afghanistan like "Oh, the Taliban are bad. We're doing Afghanistan a favor..."!

If the ultimate reason for the invasion was to oust the terrorist-harbouring Taliban, how can anyone - who wishes to be taken seriously, Ush - really believe that this is the only option available. "They're bad, but we can't beat them, so let's put them back" - that's the basic reasoning.

Ironically, no one supports this notion, PVS thinks this is Conservative view, we explain

ironically, i read nothing but support from people whos' opinions are at least 25%-50% respected on this forum. (yes, the implications were deliberate, so dont ask)

politicians rarely open their idiotic traps without speaking to an advisor...clearly the person advising Frist is an idiot

it looks highly reactionary...he visited a base in a taliban stronghold...gets a bad impression...knows that there is generally little support for sending more troops and spending more money...and so cow-towing seems like an option people might like

it gets put forward as an option...everyone goes **** up and calls it for the idiotic idea...and the whole gets forgotten about (at least until after the mid-terms)

Originally posted by PVS
ironically, i read nothing but support from people whos' opinions are at least 25%-50% respected on this forum. (yes, the implications were deliberate, so dont ask)

Support from the Country for Clarification....

25-50% Respected because Liberals think Conservatives are all "War-Mongering Douchebags" 🥷

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Support from the Country for Clarification....

25-50% Respected because Liberals think Conservatives are all "War-Mongering Douchebags" 🥷

...what? no....forget it. you win the thread by sympathy vote

looking back over the old thread i saw that ush supported the idea...and cited northern ireland as an example...there is still huge amounts of personal violence (murders, knee-cappings etc) based around sectarianism...not to mention that the northern ireland assembly was disbanded due to corruption and spy-rings...and now the leading unionists are one of the more extreme factions...and were voted into power...and thus killed off any hope for real settlement there

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Ironically, no one supports this notion, PVS thinks this is Conservative view, we explain

Ironically, you seem to be able to write, but you can't read.

Setting up the Taliban as puppets isnt a bad idea. It will cut the killing of US soldiers by Taliban guerillas and the taliban wont have any real power. It's not like the country will turn into what it was prior to the US invasion. You're nuts if you(or the media) try to imply Bush will setup a new Taliban government then just leave the country.

the implication is that the taliban will reclain rule regardless, and that offering them representation will only offer a springboard to that. as far as "give peace a chance"....we did....and they attacked us...

The Taliban wont reclaim rule of Afghanistan while Bush is in the whitehouse. Like I said I think having the Taliban be represted is bs, nothing but a farce by the US to give the implication that the Taliban actually does have some power in hope to slow down the guerilla attacks.

You put someone like John Kerry in the whitehouse and I wouldnt be surprised to see the military pull out of Afghanistan and see the Taliban come to power again.

Originally posted by KidRock
The Taliban wont reclaim rule of Afghanistan while Bush is in the whitehouse. Like I said I think having the Taliban be represted is bs, nothing but a farce by the US to give the implication that the Taliban actually does have some power in hope to slow down the guerilla attacks.

You put someone like John Kerry in the whitehouse and I wouldnt be surprised to see the military pull out of Afghanistan and see the Taliban come to power again.

Arguably I think it is counter productive to reinstall any of the Taliban, but it isn't so unusual. As we saw in Iraq with former "moderate" members of the old regime being reinstalled due to the lack of people with sufficient knowledge/skill in the field of political administration - of course the lack of such people is due to the former regimes driving out of such people, and now with the massive brain drains being experienced in both nations as everyone capable of leaving does.

Though it is likely just as much a propaganda move. The US has failed to stamp out the Taliban - they are still a powerful faction carrying out attacks and destabilising the rebuilding. Bring in some "moderate" members willing to smile for the cameras and say "The Taliban is now working with - clearly things are going good" - the implementation of which will likely not have the desired effects.

Re: Frist calls for efforts to bring Taliban into Afghan government

Originally posted by PVS
http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/ap/2006/10/02/asia/AS_GEN_Afghanistan_Frist.php

Well isn't this peachy.

Originally posted by PVS
the implication is that the taliban will reclain rule regardless, and that offering them representation will only offer a springboard to that. as far as "give peace a chance"....we did....and they attacked us...

mmm...i think thats a bit of a simplistic take on it...you cant forget the way the US used the mujahadeen to fight the soviet union and then treated them like dirt when the soviet union fell

which is exactly what we'll do in the not too distant future with saudi arabia when their usefulness (oil) runs out

namely it'll come back and bite the US on the ass with a vengence

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I find it ridiculous that people can actually try to argue for this. Also, most of those that do, are the same people who cited reasons for the invasion of Afghanistan like "Oh, the Taliban are bad. We're doing Afghanistan a favor..."!

If the ultimate reason for the invasion was to oust the terrorist-harbouring Taliban, how can anyone - who wishes to be taken seriously, Ush - really believe that this is the only option available. "They're bad, but we can't beat them, so let's put them back" - that's the basic reasoning.

Because it would be the smart thing to do, which is obviously why you are unable to understand it.

This IS the way these things are won. it's been used in Northern Ireland, a similar thing is being done in Iraq, and there is no reason not to do it here.

As a controlling Government, the Taliban ARE ousted. As a terrorist force, it is near impossible to defeat them militarily.

This is the way to defeat them politically. This is NOT 'return the Taliban to power'. It is "lessen the violence for everyone, and give them less room to claim unfair oppression, by not excluding them from the Democratic process, for those who give up the ways of violence." That's very different, and it is very commendable.

And jaden- as regards Northern Ireland, so what? No-one claimed it would go, in one step, to fairy tale perfection. But here is the important thing- it is much better than it was. The bombings have stopped, the military presence scaled back. Peace IS winning, and violence declining in favour of the political process, which is how it should be. Now a generation can grow up with none of this, and once that has happened, a return is unthinkable. The sectarianism will wither and die.

Northern Ireland is becoming a shining beacon of how these things can work. Shoddily, painfully, with all manner of seemingly illogical turns... but ultimately successful.

Like I say, the alternative being offered is to try and win the whole thing militarily. This cannot be done! Military can provide security for the new Government, but it can never destroy a terrorrist network with an effectively unlimited supply of manpower.

And nor would mean the deaths were for nothing. What a very odd view! The objective was to remove a security threat to the US, twinned with a more moral objective involving the creation of a stable, democratic Afghanistan. This kind of thinking is the way forwards to make that happen. It is clinging to military means alone that will mean that the dead- and plenty more to come- will have died for nothing.

The military action did two things. It removed the Government., That was vital because they were both harbouring and encouraging fundamentalist terrorism, and because no stable, democratic Afghanistan could exist whilst it was there. Secondly, as I say above, it can protect the new, fledgling Government.

But that is as far as it will take you. It has opened a door to try something better.