Originally posted by katelovespirate
okay back to what i was saying about those doubles meanings in that scene... i think this is also Jack's subtle way of saying, "I would die for you... and I already have. You are worth fighting for and dying for to me."I know Will constantly asserts that he would die for elizabeth, but Jack actually DID die for her...
exactly..I agree wit you.
OMG poor Jack..I dont wanna see him look hurt on screen.
IMO i think these are the internal battles each character face
1) Jack-Liz vs. Freedom>He thinks that by falling in love that means that he will have to settle and it will limit his freedom as a pirate and to sail to the seas. Is afraid of never to see the horizon. But then he met liz..and finds out that freedom is love and love is freedom!
2) Elizabeth-Heart vs. Brain> shes having major problems with her heart and brain. She wants to be with jack(heart) but what will society thinks of the governors daughter being with a wanted man(brain). Longs for freedom, longs for a purpose in life(jack/heart) but then she owes to Will, hes the one who loves her and plus shes engaged(brain). Just one taste of jack sparrow(heart) chains him up for the sake of her relationship with will (brain). Then comes in the end at tias hut that she regrets in doing so and misses him(heart)
3) Will-Liz vs. Daddy>Let me remind you that the reason he went to port royal, or across london, was to look for his father. He has been dreaming about his father all this time. Liz just got in the way and he fell for her. So he is now a man in love and the search for his father had to be prosponed. Now in the second movie when he saw his dad, that feeling that was sleeping in his heart, that hope that was sleeping to see his father was awaken. He still loves liz, but his true desire is to be with his father. He thinks that he can have both, and hes keeping liz like in a locked chest untill he gets his father. But liz is prison in there and needs to get free, thats jacks job 😂
like i said each of these characters are having some mayor battles within themselves.
all these internal battles will have their conclusion in movie 3 well at least for liz and will. Jack already accepted his love for liz in the second.
Thats why the second movie was focused on jack sparrow, bc he had internal battles during the first movie and during dmc untill the end of course. Now pirates 3 will be focused on Will Liz, fianlly they will have their resolution!
OMG this is the longest post i have ever made!! im babling my ass off OMG im still babling lol.
Wait, are these spoilers, or are they theories? Theories are all good and well--who doesn't love a good theory. But where are the generally confirmed facts? I'm a little behind in the information circuit and the spoilers online are far and few between. Who are your sources and what do you know?!
I agree with your intrepretations of the the widow line. DMC seems to be symbolically geared toward dismantling the W/E marriage. First, the opening sequence. T and T have written about the importance of a good hook while writing a screen play. They chose to start with the interrupted wedding but why do so in such a dismal way? Rain on a wedding day is considered to be bad luck. Not to mention, there is also the infamous wedding dress scene. Notice that on more than one occassion, there are shots of Elizabeth's wedding dress drowning in the ocean. Also notice of where that scene is placed. The next sequence is a shot of Elizabeth looking extremely troubled. It not only informs of us her state of mind, but I think is more foreshadowing from the writers. They foreshadowed Jack's impending death twice before it happened, so I doubt the drowning wedding dress is not significant.
Where is the information coming from that says that Will dies? Is that a confirmed rumor, or a theory?
lets just hope its not her who casts herself into the ocean. I really dont see that as a way of lifting the curse..I still think its going to be Claypso who does.
IMO it all points to her not having the married life...the sinking dress thats the thing that worries me.
but it seems as if they neve wanted to write her out of the story.
oh wait..itsa ctually like..Her wedding is skinking..she's gonna have it and then its going to sink IMO..cuz Will sods off
and still the widow line suggests its all really Jack IMO..its too much to be a coincidence that she is called a widow before marriage and we see that gloomy opening looking likse she's sitting in front of a grave..she looks like a widow and then we see Jack in a coffin floating on the sea "lost at sea"..he LEFT her before her marriage to Will..Jack is dead and gone from her life..this is supposed to be her wedding day..so it is before the mariage
then later its a reality she really is widowed from Jack and she's not even MARRIED to Will yet and Jack is lost at sea this time he's dead and gone from her life...she goes in search of him but willingly this time..not so much about the suggestive fate etc...like the burning "Tortuga" and Jack saying to tortuga! right before that line is said by that guy..fate is leading her to Jack.
"a lady, widowed before her marriage."
so yeah to me this means.
She is a widow to "a lost at sea" Jack before her marriage to Will..Jack is the one she is married to in her heart..and she has been since she first set eyes on him IMO..possibly her rntire life..she adores pirates ever since she was a little girl.
It also suggests that she cant really be with Jack until her marriage..and we all know what happens once she gets married to will
to start : 4.a woman often left alone because her husband devotes his free time to a hobby or sport (used in combination).
(although I think the start is very suggestibe of what happens to Jack at the end..he is lost to her here..gone from her life..dead from her life)
Later: 1 a woman who has lost her husband by death and has not remarried.
Hmm, that's a really interesting quote. But now you seem to be saying she's mourning Jack? I think she's just mourning her life and what she thinks she wants. This is the end of her childhood because the whole rest of the movie she will have to make very adult decisions. Her relationship with Will was founded in their childhood and their love is immature, so I always look at it as mourning the passing from child to woman, just not in a marriage like she wanted it to be.
I have no idea what this will mean for Jack. It will all depend on how the opening scene with her looks.
Originally posted by LovelyOne
lets just hope its not her who casts herself into the ocean. I really dont see that as a way of lifting the curse..I still think its going to be Claypso who does.IMO it all points to her not having the married life...the sinking dress thats the thing that worries me.
but it seems as if they neve wanted to write her out of the story.
Wait, wait...does Elizabeth drown herself or what is it??? 🙁
I thought she just, well, took of on her own. Theycan't kill her too, that would be awful. Oh dear, is that it: Will and Liz together forever, even in death??If that's the case I walk out of the theater in protest.... 😠
What is this curse you're talking about? Is it the "curse" of TFD???
Originally posted by willofthewisp
Hmm, that's a really interesting quote. But now you seem to be saying she's mourning Jack? I think she's just mourning her life and what she thinks she wants. This is the end of her childhood because the whole rest of the movie she will have to make very adult decisions. Her relationship with Will was founded in their childhood and their love is immature, so I always look at it as mourning the passing from child to woman, just not in a marriage like she wanted it to be.
I have no idea what this will mean for Jack. It will all depend on how the opening scene with her looks.
lol i know you dont understand what I mean..IMO the first is more suggestive..with all the fate(Jack) intervening and the fact she is basically lead to him and he is lost at sea to her both times..
someone cant even be a widow unless they are married to someone else before a marriage..she must be married to Jack in her heart of hearts
the 2 meanings of the word widow:
ending: A woman whose husband has died and who has not remarried.
Jack has died and is lost to the sea before she marries the whelp, will never died before their marriage
Opening: a woman often left alone because her husband devotes his free time to a hobby or sport (used in combination)
Jack has previously left her to be a free pirate..his hobby if you will before she marries the whelp 😂..dont remember Will doing that
at the same time..Jack is actually getting tired of being on his own and the way he lives life..soul mates 😄 *squee*
IMO she might subconsciously have a feeling she's not happy with her life and she is missing Jack and the fun and adventure he once brought into it..IMO the fact that when Jack came he brightened life up so much, he let her breathe (removal of the corset etc)..made her live for adventure and then he's gone?? She's feeling empty Its all gloomy and looks like a funeral..Port Royal looks horrible..IMO she kinda feels as if she needs Jack in a way I'm not sure if she actually knows that its jack that will make her feel complete..or that its Jack who made her come alive in movie 1.. i have no idea..I would say its a rather conscious thought because of that part in the cell..
Originally posted by LovelyOne
no I dont think she does..the script never suggested she died...it just seems as if she might..IMO she probably wont
Oh no....much as I'm still mad at her for "killing" Jack I don't want her to die (to be with bloody stupid Will forever 😠 ) I'm mean, if she dies, then we have no ship left at all...*cries* It's kinda hard to countinue shipping them (or writing fanfiction) if she is dead, in a can't-come-back-way.
Sorry for asking this again (I'm soo slow) but: does Liz get pregnant or not???And if she does, who is the dad?
PM me if it is a major spoiler....*please*
No, LovelyOne. I do see what you mean, and to some extent I agree with you, but it kind of implies Liz had feelings for Jack from the first movie, doesn't it? I don't see anything that would make her develop stronger feelings for Jack than for Will at that point. I think the actual turning point comes in the second movie. Up until then, they were friends who were kind of attracted to each other (Jack to her more so than vice versa because he keeps her on his mind), but nothing to suggest Liz thinking "Wow, I miss Jack so much."
I think she has feelings for him..before hand otherwise I cant see how they emerge so quickly in movie 2..there is just something about the whole way they meet and the way she cant take her eyes off him when they first meet in movie 1...she's been in love with the thought of meeting a pirate her whole life...he completely shook her world
Its like he, the thing that makes her feel most alive is missing from her life.
I think she has always loved Jack..when I say loved him I don't mean in love I just mean she has always been quite infatuated with him
I think she does miss him..she misses the adventure and excitement
why else would she be a widow before marriage? That line was said before Jack even died..it means Jack's left her..her true husband has left her and she is widowed from him..he's lost a sea. He left her to remain a pirate..when you look at the ending to 1 it kinda ties in with that.IMO he wanted her but still thought being a pirate on his own would be better...he knew he found someone special..he left with her on his mind..but he STILL left her because he felt he should be a pirate instead...remember the look he gave? and then he sees the bird, knows his pearl is coming..he thinks and he look at her really quickly and is like RIGHT i'm off then!
and the scene suggests that its Jack who is missing from her life..when you look closer at that pic it looks like she's kneeling at a grave, look at the dirt..then Jack is in a coffin..he's the missing link
Or she has always subconsciously been in love with him..and she just needs to embrace the thought.
Wow, LovelyOne, your theories are the best ever. I love them, they're so in depth.
Facinating about the whole widowed thing. I do think that Elizabeth was missing Jack, but mostly the adventure that he always dragged her into. I do think she loved him ever since he left, but she didn't realize it till he came BACK into her life in Tortuga. All the feelings were buried inside, and she was used to surpressing her true feelings. She just accepted that Jack would never come back and she'd just have to marry Will and have a normal life. She didn't count on Jack being pushed back into her life, with Beckett and all, and then she ran into him in Tortuga.
That was when she realized that she really did love him, but she kept it inside and forced herself to think that he'd just leave her again and she'd have to go back to Will.
You know that moment when he gave her the compass, I know she knew it was a compass but that look she had on her face. Didn't it look like she thought he was purposing to her? Lol, she's all speachless and it looks like she's convincing herself that it's just a compass.
Lol, funny.
I'd say 60%. Jack and Liz have great chemistry on screen, great for alot of money money MONEY. So Jerry and Gore, Ted/Terry too, would want to put alot of Jack and Liz moment, without ruining the film, to satisfy the J/E shippers.
They're the money makers you know, so they might get another kiss. Hopefully, maybe more. In an interview, I just got this from this forum {some one mentioned this interview}, some one said that Elizabeth is going to do something that Will can't forgive, with Jack.
The odds are in our favor girls!
Originally posted by Swann&Sparrow
I'd say 60%. Jack and Liz have great chemistry on screen, great for alot of money money MONEY. So Jerry and Gore, Ted/Terry too, would want to put alot of Jack and Liz moment, without ruining the film, to satisfy the J/E shippers.They're the money makers you know, so they might get another kiss. Hopefully, maybe more. In an interview, I just got this from this forum {some one mentioned this interview}, some one said that Elizabeth is going to do something that Will can't forgive, with Jack.
The odds are in our favor girls!
okay WOAH... where did you hear that about Liz doing something unforgivable with Jack? Could you find the link for me???
Or was that just referencing what she already did...?
I don't know, some one on these threads metioned it. It might have been LovelyOne, but I'm not sure. But I definatly didn't hear it wrong, she quoted. I wish I could remember the link, but I never had it in the first place. I bet it's in an interview with Jerry or Ted/Terry cause they would know alot.
I'm not completely sure when this was either. But it was after DMC, and refering to AWE, so they better have not lied to me. Cause I'm gonna party now, yay!
JACK/LIZ FOREVER!