Originally posted by Utrigita
And you know this how???IMO Tyrant cleans the table.
Because Franklin powers alone goes beyond that of FP Tyrant, also on panel.
Onslaught has a total control of them and has also Nate Grey powers (and also Magneto and Xavier).
Maybe Grey powers alone would be a non factor, but it only adds power level to Onslaught, so it's still a plus.
Onslaught never display full powers of Franklin, but we know he had them, so we could count feats from Franklin for Onslaught, what he is capable of. But Onslaught is more than just Franklin.
It's also very illogical how you say FP Tyrant cleans the table, like he would do it easily.
Counting their powers, in theory (but it shouldn't be only theory since we know what Franklin has done with his powers, and he was only a child), if they would go all out, Tyrant goes down.
Originally posted by Xplosive
Because Franklin powers alone goes beyond that of FP Tyrant, also on panel.
I guess the next thing you is about to say is that Franklin > Fed Galactus which is exactly what FP Tyrant equals.
Onslaught has a total control of them and has also Nate Grey powers (and also Magneto and Xavier).
Maybe Grey powers alone would be a non factor, but it only adds power level to Onslaught, so it's still a plus.Onslaught never display full powers of Franklin, but we know he had them, so we could count feats from Franklin for Onslaught, what he is capable of. But Onslaught is more than just Franklin.[/B]
Lets be frankly Xaviar, nate and Magneto is a non factor in this discussion it's all about the power that Franklin has and the reality warping effects that comes with it.
That is true he never did, and yet I find it strange that people constantly bring it up as a feat for Onslaught that he maybe possibly has the power of Franklin Richards even though he never showed he had powes near Franklin level 😬
It's also very illogical how you say FP Tyrant cleans the table, like he would do it easily.[/B]
I said Tyrant cleaned the Table I never specified which one...
Counting their powers, in theory (but it shouldn't be only theory since we know what Franklin has done with his powers, and he was only a child), if they would go all out, Tyrant goes down. [/B]
So you are speculating that because Franklin did x mean that Onslaught is also capable of doing so... would you please mind to tell me then why his greatest feat is to create a sun and why he then used Hulk to rip open his armor IF he had the complete Control of Franklins powers then becomming what he wanted shouldn't have been a problem for him 😬
Originally posted by Utrigita
I guess the next thing you is about to say is that Franklin > Fed Galactus which is exactly what FP Tyrant equals.
If FP Tyrant would be equal to Fed Galactus, then he would stalemate him and not lose, right?
Originally posted by Utrigita
Lets be frankly Xaviar, nate and Magneto is a non factor in this discussion it's all about the power that Franklin has and the reality warping effects that comes with it.
Yes, their powers alone are non factor, but full power Nate is no joke. Yes, against Tyrant, not much, but when you add this powers to Franklin, you still get more then only Franklin, so it can be a factor, because those three with Franklin made Onslaught more than just Franklin.
Originally posted by Utrigita
That is true he never did, and yet I find it strange that people constantly bring it up as a feat for Onslaught that he maybe possibly has the power of Franklin Richards even though he never showed he had powes near Franklin level 😬
But we know he had them. It's a fact.
Originally posted by Utrigita
So you are speculating that because Franklin did x mean that Onslaught is also capable of doing so.
Yes, because he literally had Franklin powers.
Originally posted by Utrigita
would you please mind to tell me then why his greatest feat is to create a sun and why he then used Hulk to rip open his armor IF he had the complete Control of Franklins powers then becomming what he wanted shouldn't have been a problem for him
Can you tell me why they didn't write him to use his full power, although we knew he had Franklin powers?
And remember what he did to Juggernaut, something no one did before.
All Earth, not only heroes but also villains joined to stop the Onslaught.
If Onslaught would use all his powers to full extent, cosmic beings would have to involve to stop him.
Originally posted by Xplosive
If FP Tyrant would be equal to Fed Galactus, then he would stalemate him and not lose, right?Yes, their powers alone are non factor, but full power Nate is no joke. Yes, against Tyrant, not much, but when you add this powers to Franklin, you still get more then only Franklin, so it can be a factor, because those three with Franklin made Onslaught more than just Franklin.
But we know he had them. It's a fact.
Yes, because he literally had Franklin powers.
Can you tell me why they didn't write him to use his full power, although we knew he had Franklin powers?
And remember what he did to Juggernaut, something no one did before.All Earth, not only heroes but also villains joined to stop the Onslaught.
If Onslaught would use all his powers to full extent, cosmic beings would have to involve to stop him.
Good point! So now it makes sense that Onslaught, having Frankin powers, was able to do that bullcrap of piercing Juggernaut. This expains everything. So the only bullcrap left of the story is that the gem was in Jugg's chest.
Originally posted by h1a8Wait... did he actually have Frank in him when he did this?
Good point! So now it makes sense that Onslaught, having Frankin powers, was able to do that bullcrap of piercing Juggernaut. This expains everything. So the only bullcrap left of the story is that the gem was in Jugg's chest.
Originally posted by Xplosive
If FP Tyrant would be equal to Fed Galactus, then he would stalemate him and not lose, right?
No we are just as strong, we are both practicing boxing yet I have done so for 5 years more then you have does that means that you will stalemate me??
Yes, their powers alone are non factor, but full power Nate is no joke. Yes, against Tyrant, not much, but when you add this powers to Franklin, you still get more then only Franklin, so it can be a factor, because those three with Franklin made Onslaught more than just Franklin.[/B]
Yes but in this particular battle if we remove Franklin from Onslaught what would you then place Onslaught chances at??? Zero IMO.
But we know he had them. It's a fact. [/B]
None is arguing that but he never ever showed that he had completely control over those powers els his maximum wouldn't have to create a sun now would it.
Yes, because he literally had Franklin powers.[/B]
So you believe that Onslaught would be capable of creating a pocket Dimension even though he never showed abilities to perfrom anything near that magnitude???
Can you tell me why they didn't write him to use his full power, although we knew he had Franklin powers?
And remember what he did to Juggernaut, something no one did before.[/B]
I believe they didn't write him to use his supposedly full power because he didn't have control over them. Don't forget that Franklin had placed mental blocks on himself thus limiting his abilities severely, it is possibly that Onslaught couldn't surpass that blocks thus wasn't capable of using his full power and never would be capable of doing so.
All Earth, not only heroes but also villains joined to stop the Onslaught.[/B]
Most of the beings on earth would rally together to try and stop a bloodlusten Surfer 😬
If Onslaught would use all his powers to full extent, cosmic beings would have to involve to stop him. [/B]
A single Celestial would surfice ore FP Tyrant 😬
Originally posted by Utrigita
No we are just as strong, we are both practicing boxing yet I have done so for 5 years more then you have does that means that you will stalemate me??
A really bad example, you know. Galactus was more powerful, that is why he won. FP Tyrant wasn't quite his equal, but was powerful enough to challenge him and even hurt him.
And we also don't know at what level Galactus was, we only know he fed before the titanic battle.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes but in this particular battle if we remove Franklin from Onslaught what would you then place Onslaught chances at??? Zero IMO.
Then he wouldn't stand a chance, but still, Onslaught was more than Franklin.
Originally posted by Utrigita
None is arguing that but he never ever showed that he had completely control over those powers els his maximum wouldn't have to create a sun now would it.
They just write it like that, that is it.
Originally posted by Utrigita
So you believe that Onslaught would be capable of creating a pocket Dimension even though he never showed abilities to perform anything near that magnitude???
Yes, he would. He had Franklin powers, so he should be able to perform that.
Hey, with Galactus is also always talk how he could destroy the universe, but he never did it, never near shown such magnitude (he destroyed galaxies in battle with FP Tyrant, but that was also FP Tyrant energies involved).
Originally posted by Utrigita
I believe they didn't write him to use his supposedly full power because he didn't have control over them. Don't forget that Franklin had placed mental blocks on himself thus limiting his abilities severely, it is possibly that Onslaught couldn't surpass that blocks thus wasn't capable of using his full power and never would be capable of doing so.
Franklin abilities were still there, he placed mental blocks, but his full abilities were still there. That doesn't mean Onslaught had those mental blocks to his abilities.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Most of the beings on earth would rally together to try and stop a bloodlusten Surfer 😬
Maybe, but still, Silver Surfer doesn't come close to the power level of Onslaught.
Originally posted by Utrigita
A single Celestial would surfice ore FP Tyrant 😬
Due to what Celestial said that Franklin would be their equal in power, based on that Onslaught should be, in theory, more than a single Celestial.
Onslaught is among six most powerful beings ever from Earth.
White Phoenix of the Crown, Jamie Braddock, Mad Jim Jaspers, Scarlett Witch and Havok comes to the mind being more powerful than him, that is why I said cosmic powers would have to involve to stop him (if he would use his powers to full extent), if those five wouldn't involve, but we also know that those five are among most powerful beings ever in Marvel Universe.
Originally posted by Xplosive
A really bad example, you know. Galactus was more powerful, that is why he won. FP Tyrant wasn't quite his equal, but was powerful enough to challenge him and even hurt him.
And we also don't know at what level Galactus was, we only know he fed before the titanic battle.
I fail so see how, Galactus had prior to his battle with Tyrant already defeated the Proimal Gods, so to make the assesment that Galactus fed would beat Tyrant isn't wrong. No we doesn't know a 100% but we can make a fairly good assumption on the issue, we know that during his early lifespan Galactus didn't feast on more then one world at the time, we also know that when he confronted Tyrant again he "only" feasted on one world prior to the confrontation, it would only be logical to assume that he feasted on one world because he knew it would be enough to defeat Tyrant.
Then he wouldn't stand a chance, but still, Onslaught was more than Franklin.[/B]
Without Franklin Onslaught would have been a joke in comparison to some of the beings on earth.
They just write it like that, that is it.[/B]
Still a poor show for someone that should according to you be capable of creating a pocket universe.
Yes, he would. He had Franklin powers, so he should be able to perform that.[/B]
In theory 🙂
Hey, with Galactus is also always talk how he could destroy the universe, but he never did it, never near shown such magnitude (he destroyed galaxies in battle with FP Tyrant, but that was also FP Tyrant energies involved).[/B]
Thats mostly IMO because he has the UN and since it is a aspect of him it can be speculated that Galactus himself can use a potion of the UN's energies. Still FP Tyrant + Galactus = multiply Galaxies destroyed wouldn't you then find it logical that Galactus alone would be capable of destroying one??? I would but he will never do so because such a reckless act would destroy his meals.
Franklin abilities were still there, he placed mental blocks, but his full abilities were still there. That doesn't mean Onslaught had those mental blocks to his abilities.[/B]
No but Franklin still had to his and I mentioned that a possibility existed that Onslaught couldn't overcome those Blocks because at that point of time Franklins power was restricted to not being anywhere near Celestial level.
Maybe, but still, Silver Surfer doesn't come close to the power level of Onslaught.[/B]
It depends on which Onslaught you are comparing him to IMO.
Due to what Celestial said that Franklin would be their equal in power, based on that Onslaught should be, in theory, more than a single Celestial.[/B]
They speculated that he maybe eventually one day would become there equal, but to say that because Onslaught had Nate Grey, Professor X and Magneto inside on him along with Franklin then he > a Celestial is IMO a wrong logic since even combined the three first it but a corn of sand to a Celestial.
Onslaught is among six most powerful beings ever from Earth.White Phoenix of the Crown, Jamie Braddock, Mad Jim Jaspers, Scarlett Witch and Havok comes to the mind being more powerful than him, that is why I said cosmic powers would have to involve to stop him (if he would use his powers to full extent), if those five wouldn't involve, but we also know that those five are among most powerful beings ever in Marvel Universe. [/B]
But you do realise how long there is from the mentioned 5 to Onslaught right, all of those have preformed extrodenary feats which makes everything Onslaught and Franklin did, looks like a painting from a child next to a rembrandt. Also you forgot Hyperstorm and possibly Vulcan.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Without Franklin Onslaught would have been a joke in comparison to some of the beings on earth.
To those five I mentioned, yes. But already Onslaught with full power Nate+Magneto+Xavier would make him one of the most powerful on Earth.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Still a poor show for someone that should according to you be capable of creating a pocket universe.
Indeed. But that is the way it was. Look Galactus how many poor showing he had.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Thats mostly IMO because he has the UN and since it is a aspect of him it can be speculated that Galactus himself can use a potion of the UN's energies. Still FP Tyrant + Galactus = multiply Galaxies destroyed wouldn't you then find it logical that Galactus alone would be capable of destroying one??? I would but he will never do so because such a reckless act would destroy his meals.
I don't doubt Galactus alone could wreck galaxies.
Originally posted by Utrigita
It depends on which Onslaught you are comparing him to IMO.
Already Onslaught with full power Nate+Magneto+Xavier would make be a devastating battle against Silver Surfer and a tough one.
With FR power, no contest.
Originally posted by Utrigita
They speculated that he maybe eventually one day would become there equal, but to say that because Onslaught had Nate Grey, Professor X and Magneto inside on him along with Franklin then he > a Celestial is IMO a wrong logic since even combined the three first it but a corn of sand to a Celestial.
I understand what you mean, because of those three being so lesser than a Celestial. But Nate is just no joke. That is why I said, that it still could be a factor making Onslaught more powerful than a single Celestial. It was also said for Nate to be ultimate telekinetic that could rival Phoenix (of course never done anything like that to compare him to Phoenix).
Originally posted by Utrigita
But you do realise how long there is from the mentioned 5 to Onslaught right, all of those have preformed extrodenary feats which makes everything Onslaught and Franklin did, looks like a painting from a child next to a rembrandt. Also you forgot Hyperstorm and possibly Vulcan.
Yes, he is much bellow those five. But still, Psi-Lord did destroy an alternate Universe (that put him beyond any Celestial).
I thought about those two, but Vulcan hasn't shown such level to be put him there. About Hyperstorm, could be up there, but still didn't do anything impressive as his father.
But due to nature of his power, drawing energies endlessly from hyperspace, he could be written to be the most powerful mutant ever. And I don't understand how he could lose to Galactus. Yes, Galactus feed on energis, but if Hyperstorm could endlessly draw it's power, he should just overpower Galactus, he should have no trouble in defeating Galactus.
Hyperstorm should be able to defeat Galactus, but they stalemated
Ashema the Listener said Frankie=1 Celestial. Celestials respect Franklin Richards
U both made excellent points
IMO, Celestials like Tiamut, Exitar or Arishem would easily defeat Onslaught
For the thread, still taking Tyrant. Tyrant lost to Galactus the first time. 2nd time, Tyrant had the advantage
Originally posted by Xplosive
To those five I mentioned, yes. But already Onslaught with full power Nate+Magneto+Xavier would make him one of the most powerful on Earth.
It would but there would IMO still be beings that could challenge him, Doctor Stranger just to name one.
Indeed. But that is the way it was. Look Galactus how many poor showing he had.[/B]
Galactus has been used a lot more then Onslaught has also there was a period in the comic history where Galactus was the favorite punching back for the more lowlevel superhero after the other.
I don't doubt Galactus alone could wreck galaxies.[/B]
Glad to hear that.
Already Onslaught with full power Nate+Magneto+Xavier would make be a devastating battle against Silver Surfer and a tough one.
With FR power, no contest.[/B]
Surfer alone from my point of view actually quiet easily defeated Cable which equal Nate Grey. Magneto and Professor X would be a a non factor against a pissed up surfer.
I understand what you mean, because of those three being so lesser than a Celestial. But Nate is just no joke. That is why I said, that it still could be a factor making Onslaught more powerful than a single Celestial. It was also said for Nate to be ultimate telekinetic that could rival Phoenix (of course never done anything like that to compare him to Phoenix).[/B]
In regardens to a Celestial, Nate is a joke Xplosive, and IMO even when Professor X and Magneto is integrated into Onslaught he wouldn't be capable of defeating a Celestial.
Yes, he is much bellow those five. But still, Psi-Lord did destroy an alternate Universe (that put him beyond any Celestial).
I thought about those two, but Vulcan hasn't shown such level to be put him there. [/B]
When did Psi-Lord do that??? It puts him beyond Eternity which is redicolus when its stated that Psi-Lord roughly had 3/4 of Franklins power 😬.
About Hyperstorm, could be up there, but still didn't do anything impressive as his father. But due to nature of his power, drawing energies endlessly from hyperspace, he could be written to be the most powerful mutant ever. And I don't understand how he could lose to Galactus. Yes, Galactus feed on energis, but if Hyperstorm could endlessly draw it's power, he should just overpower Galactus, he should have no trouble in defeating Galactus. [/B]
No put again his showings was very few. He could in theory be the most powerful but then again he would be nothing against the five you mentioned. From my point of view it's easy to understand 🙂 As you say yourself Galactus feeds on energy in all the forms. Hyperstorm was a living conduct for that energy, And even if he could draw endless power from Hyperspace it wouldn't help him because Galactus would just drink deeper Galactus who's hunger can never truly be ended will just continue to feed on him and he is a human I have my doubts about how long his body will be capable of handling the pressure from the energies be pumped into him and then being ripped out.
People tend to call it a Stalemate I doesn't quiet see where they get that from Hyperstorm was completely powerless against Galactus.
Originally posted by Utrigita
It would but there would IMO still be beings that could challenge him, Doctor Stranger just to name one.
Yes, he could.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Galactus has been used a lot more then Onslaught has also there was a period in the comic history where Galactus was the favorite punching back for the more lowlevel superhero after the other.
Galactus has many poor showings, with time he was like a joke.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Surfer alone from my point of view actually quiet easily defeated Cable which equal Nate Grey. Magneto and Professor X would be a a non factor against a pissed up surfer.
I think it would be a still hard battle for SS.
Originally posted by Utrigita
In regardens to a Celestial, Nate is a joke Xplosive, and IMO even when Professor X and Magneto is integrated into Onslaught he wouldn't be capable of defeating a Celestial.
Indeed.
Originally posted by Utrigita
When did Psi-Lord do that??? It puts him beyond Eternity which is redicolus when its stated that Psi-Lord roughly had 3/4 of Franklins power 😬.
Psi-Lord destroyed an alternate Universe. Now you know why I think Onslaught should defeat FP Tyrant.
I don't where he did it, but look:
Originally posted by Mr Master
I say,1. HOM Wanda
2. Jamie Braddock
3. Jaspers
4. Havok/nexus
5. Phoenix & Psi-Lord (both have destroyed an Alternate Universe - top feat)
And Psi-Lord should supposedly be lesser than FP Franklin. No Celestial came close to that.
Originally posted by Utrigita
No put again his showings was very few. He could in theory be the most powerful but then again he would be nothing against the five you mentioned. From my point of view it's easy to understand 🙂 As you say yourself Galactus feeds on energy in all the forms. Hyperstorm was a living conduct for that energy, And even if he could draw endless power from Hyperspace it wouldn't help him because Galactus would just drink deeper Galactus who's hunger can never truly be ended will just continue to feed on him and he is a human I have my doubts about how long his body will be capable of handling the pressure from the energies be pumped into him and then being ripped out.
I think Hyperstorm could be in the league of those five mentioned.
He should do far more than what he used against Galactus. I don't think Galatcus should be able to feed on his energy, because Galactus doesn't have infinite energy.
Yes, Galactus feeds all form of energies, but there are energies, powers greater than him and could overpower him and I think Hyperstorm should be one of those who should be able to overpower him.