Originally posted by Battlehammer
He not basing his entire arguement on that one scene.We have 3 or 4 instances of bullets entering Logan brain when he had adamatium which is PIS. None of the instances validate another, like people pretend there do. There all from different area's. If they were infact not pis, that would mean Logan is missing part of his skill on both sides around his ear, he be miss another around the jaw, he be missing a piece of a skull behind his ears, and he bee missing skull behind his noises...........not only is that rediculous, it goes against human atonomy which you could maybe argue Logan atonomy may be different which it is just not that that way. However Logans skeleton and skull through out his history show no weakness. Also if he had such a weakness woudlent it have been stated in comics or a hand book or when Xavier protocal talked about how to kill wolverine? also woudlent that protocal have a correct skeleton structure of logan since he was actaully dirrectly taken from logan? There were not such weaknesses shown nor mention. Also how would he brain even still stay inside his skull with all theses suposed holes?
Originally posted by grimify🙄
Which is what almost every comic book "debater" does. Especially Wolverine fans. 🙂
yes because it's much more logical to assume that Wolverine has a SEVERE weakness that's never been discussed, mentioned, listed or EVEN suggested than it is to conclude that these are seperate physiologically impossible mistakes made by different writers in different arcs failing with different parts of the human anatomy of the skull ... 😐
Originally posted by grimify
Which is what almost every comic book "debater" does. Especially Wolverine fans. 🙂
It also doesn't make sense compared to his other in-fight showings.
If he was missing the a piece of skull over the roof of his mouth that DP shot through there would be nothing to connect that piece to his vertebre and keep it fused which means that every punch he's ever taken from a brick should have made him look like a pez dispenser.
The ear arrow shot makes no sense because the ear canal moves down and around the back/base of the skull as it travels inwards which means that Logan would have to be missig a HUGE portion of Adamantium on both sides of his head for the bolt to have gone through.
Finally, we know for a fact that the Adamantium bonded to Wolverine skeleton did so on a molecular level which means that it fused with his skeleton to turn it into a completely altered substance if such was the case, an alteration to that extent could not be possible to be done to only a portion of the applied area it would have to be done as a whole. When the bonding process to Wolverine's skeleton took place, people were shocked that Wolverine's claws came out. So if Admantium was bonding to places that weren't even supposed to exist why wouldn't it be bonded to these points in his skull?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
......have you heard the theorie onedumb has? His theory is that Wolverine is missing a pierce of his skull behind each ear, behind his knows, behind and above his chin, oh and also behind both eyes.........so Logan missing the majority of his skull according to onedumb and a few others......even though that against person atonomy. It against Logan entire history of when his skeleton been shown which has been many times.......not to mention if he had such a weakness why has no one ever mention it? why hasent weapon x ever said anything about it? why did Xaiver protocal state i when stating how to put Logan down also when was showing a dirrect image from Logan skeleton was there no such holes........and you think wolverine fans have bad theories?
Oh I agree that Wolverine having missing skull pieces is PIS.
But my point still stands. 🙂
If people didn't draw seperate "retard theories" from the same scenario, there wouldn't be a comic book debate forum.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin😕
[QUOTE=11770445]Originally posted by Mekrob
[B]Did you just use the anatomy card, and then show one scene to rule out a couple... of which a bullet would have went through his adamantium skeleton in his neck, his kneecap, and one right through his spine?I mean, I'm no Brucey, but that seems... contradictory?
A bullet doesn't need to go through the spine in order to go through the throat... same thing with the abdomen and spine, and the leg and the knee cap. You may notice how the bullet wound is much much bigger than the size of the bullet due to the high caliber... the bullets trajectory doesn't need to take it into direct contact with the bone in order for it to cause that kind of damage... [/B][/QUOTE]
when you look at how all of it is pictured, there is no way at all the bullets missed the spine or the knee cap, though i would agree with a statement that this should be impossible, due to the adamantium. Yet the point Mekrob was making stays nonetheless.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
He not basing his entire arguement on that one scene.We have 3 or 4 instances of bullets entering Logan brain when he had adamatium which is PIS. None of the instances validate another, like people pretend there do. There all from different area's. If they were infact not pis, that would mean Logan is missing part of his skill on both sides around his ear, he be miss another around the jaw, he be missing a piece of a skull behind his ears, and he bee missing skull behind his noises...........not only is that rediculous, it goes against human atonomy which you could maybe argue Logan atonomy may be different which it is just not that that way. However Logans skeleton and skull through out his history show no weakness. Also if he had such a weakness woudlent it have been stated in comics or a hand book or when Xavier protocal talked about how to kill wolverine? also woudlent that protocal have a correct skeleton structure of logan since he was actaully dirrectly taken from logan? There were not such weaknesses shown nor mention. Also how would he brain even still stay inside his skull with all theses suposed holes?
The shown weaknesses proved to be painful and valid options for incapacitating Logan for some time, but they never proved to be options for a permanent solution, so why would they have to be mentioned in the Xavier Protocols as such?
There are over thirty holes in the human skull (used for blood vessels and nerves) i can think of just now. Some of them, like the porus acusticus (behind the ear), the fissurae orbitales (behind the eyes), the foramen lacerum, ovale and jugulare and the canalis caroticus (all at the "base" of the skull), being valid options for a bullet to enter the skull.
Btw., the brain is not liquid and surrounded by various layers of "skins" (f.e. dura mater), so don't be afraid that it might run out somehow due to the many (very real) skull-holes.
Originally posted by wannabe
😕when you look at how all of it is pictured, [b]there is no way at all
the bullets missed the spine or the knee cap, though i would agree with a statement that this should be impossible, due to the adamantium. Yet the point Mekrob was making stays nonetheless.
[/B]
Originally posted by wannabe
:It is rather pointless to devalue the numerous examples of weak spots in Logan's skeletal structure, that have been pictured throughout his history, by stating that there have been no weaknesses shown throughout his history.
Originally posted by wannabe.
:The shown weaknesses proved to be painful and valid options for incapacitating Logan for some time, but they never proved to be options for a permanent solution, so why would they have to be mentioned in the Xavier Protocols as such?
Originally posted by wannabe.
:There are over thirty holes in the human skull (used for blood vessels and nerves) i can think of just now. Some of them, like the porus acusticus (behind the ear), the fissurae orbitales (behind the eyes), the foramen lacerum, ovale and jugulare and the canalis caroticus (all at the "base" of the skull), being valid options for a bullet to enter the skull.
Originally posted by wannabe.
:Btw., the brain is not liquid and surrounded by various layers of "skins" (f.e. dura mater), so don't be afraid that it might run out somehow due to the many (very real) skull-holes.
Here an image of human skull at several angles
http://www.biovere.com/cart/images/real_human_skull_all_views.jpg
Look of the PIS bullets and so on enter Logan’s skull. Lets start with the arrow one shall we, as we all can see that ear whole is down, the arrow is the scan is going directly across which is impossible. Now if we all take a look at the scan of Logan getting shot in the nose. She he being shot at in up wards angle, the hole for the noses is down wards which means those bullet never would of made it to the brain, they would have hit adamatium bone. Now as for the scan of deadpool shooting by Logan jaw, as you can see there is bone there that would have been directly it and would have stopped any bullet from coming even closes to his brain. As for Logan being hit in the eye again if you look at the skulls though there is a hole, that does reach the brain it extremely small, to small for a bullet. Also the bullet used was a large bullet high caliber, it never would have fit through such an opening.
@ Battlehammer:
The pictures we're referring to clearly show the bullet go THROUGH the neck, a big seeTHROUGH hole in Logan's back and blood splashing from the EXIT WOUND in the hollow of the knee, so NO BOUNCING OFF for any bullets.
Face it, this line of pictures is simply not suited to prove the flawlessness of Logan's skeleton.
I studied medicine and dissected a human skull myself, so i know of what we are talking here. And of course it would be rather difficult to get even a small caliber bullet through any of those holes. But then again we're talking of comic biology, comic sciences, which tend to give logic and ratio some room, if i may say so.
So in a debate we can handle this in roughly three ways:
1. We ignore real sciences and just take everything on panel as given, undeniable and valid fact, no matter what. Problem would be, that we'd have extremely many "undeniable and valid" contradictions.
2. We analyse everything that is in the least relatable to real world sciences precisely according to those real world sciences. Problem would be, that many of them character feats would be impossible even considering the character's powers.
3. We analyse feats according to real world science, but give comic exaggeration some room as long as it does not fundamentally contradicts these sciences.
You seem to follow way 2 here, to which we must accept the nigh impenetrable nature of Logan's skull (for bullets), due to the anatomically correct smallness and windings of the holes, but would also have to question the integrity of his skeleton without flesh and ligaments holding the bones together, thus making dismembering and decapitating Logan an unquestionable possibility. Also we'd have to question his ability to cut steel and other very hard substances, cause indestructible claws alone would scientifically not be enough to do that, it would also take the appropriate strength, which he doesn't have ... and so on.
I follow way 3, realizing the scientific improbability of bullets entering Logan's skull through any hole in the real world, but accepting the nature of the comic to exaggerate the scientific fact of the existence of entering points in the human skull, without presenting something ridiculously impossible like sticking a wooden stake through Logan's skullcap.
What we can't do without losing integrity of the debate, is mixing the ways, using them as it is most convinient at the moment to "defend" our favoured character. So if you wanna stick to way 2 in this case, which would be perfectly ok for me, you'd have to stick to it in every other debate of the same nature, or it would cost you credibility as a debater.
I always followed way 3, and according to that it's perfectly ok and valid to shoot Wolverine throug his skull-holes.
If you'd rather stick with way 2, then i accept your vision of Logan being secure in the given area, but i'll hold you to that way of argumentation in every other debate. 😉
Originally posted by wannabe
@ Battlehammer:The pictures we're referring to clearly show the bullet go THROUGH the neck, a big seeTHROUGH hole in Logan's back and blood splashing from the EXIT WOUND in the hollow of the knee, so NO BOUNCING OFF for any bullets.
Face it, this line of pictures is simply not suited to prove the flawlessness of Logan's skeleton.I studied medicine and dissected a human skull myself, so i know of what we are talking here. And of course it would be rather difficult to get even a small caliber bullet through any of those holes. But then again we're talking of comic biology, comic sciences, which tend to give logic and ratio some room, if i may say so.
So in a debate we can handle this in roughly three ways:
1. We ignore real sciences and just take everything on panel as given, undeniable and valid fact, no matter what. Problem would be, that we'd have extremely many "undeniable and valid" contradictions.
2. We analyse everything that is in the least relatable to real world sciences precisely according to those real world sciences. Problem would be, that many of them character feats would be impossible even considering the character's powers.
3. We analyse feats according to real world science, but give comic exaggeration some room as long as it does not fundamentally contradicts these sciences.You seem to follow way 2 here, to which we must accept the nigh impenetrable nature of Logan's skull (for bullets), due to the anatomically correct smallness and windings of the holes, but would also have to question the integrity of his skeleton without flesh and ligaments holding the bones together, thus making dismembering and decapitating Logan an unquestionable possibility. Also we'd have to question his ability to cut steel and other very hard substances, cause indestructible claws alone would scientifically not be enough to do that, it would also take the appropriate strength, which he doesn't have ... and so on.
I follow way 3, realizing the scientific improbability of bullets entering Logan's skull through any hole in the real world, but accepting the nature of the comic to exaggerate the scientific fact of the existence of entering points in the human skull, without presenting something ridiculously impossible like sticking a wooden stake through Logan's skullcap.
What we can't do without losing integrity of the debate, is mixing the ways, using them as it is most convinient at the moment to "defend" our favoured character. So if you wanna stick to way 2 in this case, which would be perfectly ok for me, you'd have to stick to it in every other debate of the same nature, or it would cost you credibility as a debater.
Very good summary. This applies to general comic-vs debating.
Its always hard to find that balance b/w real life references and comic book science.
Personally, I'd like to think Wolverine's skull should be invulnerable to bullets (its kinda his "thing"😉. But someone posted a substantial amount of screens to cause reasonable doubt.
Originally posted by Placidity
Very good summary. This applies to general comic-vs debating.Its always hard to find that balance b/w real life references and comic book science.
Originally posted by Placidity
Personally, I'd like to think Wolverine's skull should be invulnerable to bullets (its kinda his "thing"😉. But someone posted a substantial amount of screens to cause reasonable doubt.
Ãœbrigens, ich lebe auch in Deutschland. 🙂
Originally posted by wannabe
@ Battlehammer:The pictures we're referring to clearly show the bullet go THROUGH the neck, a big seeTHROUGH hole in Logan's back and blood splashing from the EXIT WOUND in the hollow of the knee, so NO BOUNCING OFF for any bullets.
Face it, this line of pictures is simply not suited to prove the flawlessness of Logan's skeleton.
Originally posted by wannabe
@ I studied medicine and dissected a human skull myself, so i know of what we are talking here. And of course it would be rather difficult to get even a small caliber bullet through any of those holes. But then again we're talking of comic biology, comic sciences, which tend to give logic and ratio some room, if i may say so.
So in a debate we can handle this in roughly three ways:
1. We ignore real sciences and just take everything on panel as given, undeniable and valid fact, no matter what. Problem would be, that we'd have extremely many "undeniable and valid" contradictions.
2. We analyse everything that is in the least relatable to real world sciences precisely according to those real world sciences. Problem would be, that many of them character feats would be impossible even considering the character's powers.
3. We analyse feats according to real world science, but give comic exaggeration some room as long as it does not fundamentally contradicts these sciences.You seem to follow way 2 here, to which we must accept the nigh impenetrable nature of Logan's skull (for bullets), due to the anatomically correct smallness and windings of the holes, but would also have to question the integrity of his skeleton without flesh and ligaments holding the bones together, thus making dismembering and decapitating Logan an unquestionable possibility. Also we'd have to question his ability to cut steel and other very hard substances, cause indestructible claws alone would scientifically not be enough to do that, it would also take the appropriate strength, which he doesn't have ... and so on.
I follow way 3, realizing the scientific improbability of bullets entering Logan's skull through any hole in the real world, but accepting the nature of the comic to exaggerate the scientific fact of the existence of entering points in the human skull, without presenting something ridiculously impossible like sticking a wooden stake through Logan's skullcap.
What we can't do without losing integrity of the debate, is mixing the ways, using them as it is most convinient at the moment to "defend" our favoured character. So if you wanna stick to way 2 in this case, which would be perfectly ok for me, you'd have to stick to it in every other debate of the same nature, or it would cost you credibility as a debater.
I always followed way 3, and according to that it's perfectly ok and valid to shoot Wolverine throug his skull-holes.
If you'd rather stick with way 2, then i accept your vision of Logan being secure in the given area, but i'll hold you to that way of argumentation in every other debate. 😉
Originally posted by Battlehammerum...no
also if there theory which as absurd is right then Logan brain fall out. I mean doing a flip, hell even walking would causes the brain to literally ooze out of this allegded holes
brain is not liquid
just because logan has some holes doesn't mean his brain will drip through them
Originally posted by Starscream M
because its happened over 3 timesit doesn't matter that it was different places...it just indicates that different writers all thought that logan's brain was vulnerable through his skull...how it is doesn't matter
There not the same area. They dont validate eachother.
This is what your saying. based on one feat he has a hole in the top of his noses that leads dirrectly to his brain, your saying based on another single event that he ahs a big hole behind his eye (even though two events say other wises) your also saying that based off another single event that he has a big hole under his chin........oh an on another single event your saying that wolverine has hole from one side of his head to the other.......
so based off one time events you saying the erases his entire history of not having holes.........come on now that just reidculous
so based on your logic Logan can walk straight through scots blast becuases he onces did it.......
Originally posted by Battlehammerso based on your logic Logan can walk straight through scots blast becuases he onces did it.......
no, my logic would be like:
if scott hit logan on the arm and logan was uninjured
then scott hit logan in the leg and he was uninjured
and then scott hit logan in the stomach and he was uninjured
therefore, I can say logan is immune to scott's attacks even though it was 3 DIFFERENT locations he got hit...they support the general idea that he can't be hurt by scott
Originally posted by Starscream M
no, my logic would be like:if scott hit logan on the arm and logan was uninjured
then scott hit logan in the leg and he was uninjured
and then scott hit logan in the stomach and he was uninjured
therefore, I can say logan is immune to scott's attacks even though it was 3 DIFFERENT locations he got hit...they support the general idea that he can't be hurt by scott
Thats not the same thing at all. Your saying that Logan is missing pieces of his skull based off single events. your analogy is retarded.
oh and by the way if thats really the logic your using, then in your eyes Logan is immune to scots blasts. Becuases he has been hit in the arm ect. and been compeltely fine
your also saying that single events super seed a 15 plus years of history that says other wises. Oh not to mention your taking a single feat over two dirrectly related feats thta say other wises
