book 7 title

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Hmmm, this is a bit out there, but does anybody think that the little predicting Trelawney was doing when Harry was on his way to Dumbledore's first lesson might mean anything?

I think so ✅ It definitely stuck in my mind after reading it... I also thought it could possibly indicate the return of Sirius 🥷 I mean, he 'died' but his body was never discovered, I strongly believe there is a chance of him returning from beyond the veil. So, a 'dark haired young man' could be referring to him. I think a reference to Harry himself is too obvious.

Also, it could mean something with regard to Tom Riddle as a teenager... he's dark haired, possibly troubled 🙄 and detests being questioned. Just a stab in the dark type theory.

Also could the department of mysteries figure into the story again, what with the covered arch, and the door that supposedly leads the way to the force Voldermort fears so much (love)?

Like I said above, the veil in the department of mysteries... Sirius returning, that would be an awesome twist.

And I think Harry could potentially die, as the prophecy doesn't specifically say that one will survive, or that one *has to survive*. It's more like the only chance for one to live is for the other not to. Still, if Harry has got to kill Voldermort, then it would be difficult for him to do so if he is dead (unless it is one of those noble sacrifice kind of things)

The prophecy states that neither can live whilst the other survives 😑

And of course, will Ollivander the wand maker turn up, in the beginning he seemed like someone who was wise, knew something. Then he doesn't appear again, and then he is mentioned in passing as having disappeared and how ominous it is. Perhaps Voldermort captured him to find out why Harry's and his wand did what they did, to work out a way that could help him?

I wondered where Ollivander went and why it would be mentioned if it held no significance. It's a great theory on the wands... looking forward to the next book!!

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Hmmm, this is a bit out there, but does anybody think that the little predicting Trelawney was doing when Harry was on his way to Dumbledore's first lesson might mean anything?

Could be nothing, but it just seems so, well, prophetic. And it certainly sounds like it refers to Harry, but who is doing the questioning? Scrimgeour? Snape with his mind delving spells? Voldermort even? Also could the department of mysteries figure into the story again, what with the covered arch, and the door that supposedly leads the way to the force Voldermort fears so much (love)?

And I think Harry could potentially die, as the prophecy doesn't specifically say that one will survive, or that one *has to survive*. It's more like the only chance for one to live is for the other not to. Still, if Harry has got to kill Voldermort, then it would be difficult for him to do so if he is dead (unless it is one of those noble sacrifice kind of things)

And of course, will Ollivander the wand maker turn up, in the beginning he seemed like someone who was wise, knew something. Then he doesn't appear again, and then he is mentioned in passing as having disappeared and how ominous it is. Perhaps Voldermort captured him to find out why Harry's and his wand did what they did, to work out a way that could help him?

As soon as I read that part in the book, it was obvious to me that it held some importance. I believe she was sort of 'forseeing' the night that Dumbledore dies.

The dark-haired young man could possibly be Snape, and his 'questioner' could be Dumbledore. Remember their argument?

Trelawney was right about the "lightning-struck tower", wasn't she?

Also. I really, really, really think that Dumbledore knew what that stuff was he drank to get to the horcrux in that bowl. I think it was a potion (after all, he knew what the effects of drinking it were going to be), and I think it's going to be important in book 7.
As for the real horcrux that was in there, R.A.B. has already said that he was going to destroy it, so why so much speculation over who RAB is?

Originally posted by FakeHorcrux
Trelawney was right about the "lightning-struck tower", wasn't she?

Also. I really, really, really think that Dumbledore knew what that stuff was he drank to get to the horcrux in that bowl. I think it was a potion (after all, he knew what the effects of drinking it were going to be), and I think it's going to be important in book 7.
As for the real horcrux that was in there, R.A.B. has already said that he was going to destroy it, so why so much speculation over who RAB is?

Number one, he could still be alive. It is improbable, but if it were true, he might be able to help Harry. Number two, he might not have been able to destroy it, for some reason or another. Dumbledore's entire hand basically 'died' when he destroyed a Horcrux...

Dumbledore could have made something similar to a Horcrux. He has killed someone. SO if he really did do something similar, he could go back. I'm not saying he can or can't...I'm just explaining the facts.

Originally posted by Saratn
Dumbledore could have made something similar to a Horcrux. He has killed someone. SO if he really did do something similar, he could go back. I'm not saying he can or can't...I'm just explaining the facts.

When was it said that he killed somebody, though?

He defeated Grindelwald. But we dont know if he actully killed him, or he just got him into Azkaban

Originally posted by DanZeke25
He defeated Grindelwald. But we dont know if he actully killed him, or he just got him into Azkaban

Exactly.

Saratn: JKR said he died, but she didn't say Dumbledore killed him.

so is it like oh I grabbed your wand...you are now helpless. What else is that supposed to mean??? My head hurts from thinking about this...

blowup

Originally posted by Saratn
so is it like oh I grabbed your wand...you are now helpless. What else is that supposed to mean??? My head hurts from thinking about this...

blowup

Huh? 😑

What I was saying was, nowhere was it said that Dumbledore killed somebody. Sure, he defeated Grindelwald, but he could have simply taken him to Azkaban, let alone assuming he killed him.

doubt he went to Azkaban. It would have said something like 'Dumbledore is known for sending the Dark Wizard, Grindelwald to Azkaban' instead of saying he defeated. He technically wouldn't be defeated if he was in Azkaban. People of the Dark Arts would surely be able to escape Azkaban. Black was smart enough to do it, so Grindelwald could have found a way to get out if he was in Azkaban.

Wow...

I just found this website, and although I am still having trouble believing that Dumbledore might just be alive, this website has truly made my brain reel.

http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com/introduction.html

Its point is explained on the first page. It is supporting the rumor that Dumbledore may still be alive. Read it, and no matter how much you think Dumbledore is dead, this site will make you think....

Wow, good job with finding that site. headbang that really makes me think. Maybe Dumbledore isnt dead. But the clues about Snape, i've heard them all before, and while it does make sense, i still think he is evil.

Yeah... It does make you think... Though I still don't think he's alive... Maybe the whole bit about Snape being good still might be real...I just don't see how people can still think Dumbledore is alive...

4. The Flying Avada Kedavra

As soon as I read the description of exactly what happened the moment that Snape killed Dumbledore, little red flags were popping up in my brain, but I didn't pay attention to them at first. This was actually the very first clue that alerted me to this whole thing.

Every other time we've seen the Avada Kedavra performed, the victim simply falls over dead:

He was screaming so loudly that he never heard the words the thing in the chair spoke as it raised a wand. There was a flash of green light, a rushing sound, and Frank Bryce crumbled. He was dead before he hit the floor. (GoF pg 15/19)

From high above his head, he heard a high, cold voice say, "Kill the spare." A swishing noise and a second voice, which screeched the words to the night: "Avada Kedavra!" A blast of green light blazed through Harry's eyelids, and he heard something heavy fall to ground beside him. Cedric was lying spread-eagled on the ground beside him. He was dead. (GoF pg 638/553)

However, in Half-Blood Prince, when Snape curses Dumbledore with the same spell, Dumbledore violently flies up and away from the tower:

Snape raised his wand and pointed it directly at Dumbledore. "Avada Kedavra!" A jet of green light shot from the end of Snape's wand and hit Dumbledore squarely in the chest. Harry's scream of horror never left him; silently he was forced to watch as Dumbledore was blasted into the air. For a split second, he seemed to hang suspended beneath the shining skull, and then he slowly fell backward, like a great rag doll, over the battlements and out of sight. (HBP pg 596/556)

Why would this application of the Avada Kedavra be so different from every other time we've seen it?

Perhaps his spell was different because even though those were the words Snape said, he didn't perform the killing curse at all. Remember all the importance this book gave to "nonverbal" spells? Perhaps Snape said Avada Kedavra, but the curse he was really thinking, the nonverbal one, was a different curse, one that only made it appear that Dumbledore was dead.

Even the title of the chapter this all takes place in is suspicous, "The Lightning-Struck Tower". Even though this is the name of the ominous tarot card that Trelawney was worried about back on page 543/507 in Chapter 25, is it possible that J.K. is hinting here that the spell was not Avada Kedavra, just some green lightning sparks for show?

9. Caution: Dumbledore Is Flammable

As part of the funeral service, a fire ignites around the body of Dumbledore, and when it subsides, his body is encased in a white marble tomb.

Again, we don't see the body, either before or after the fire.

But more importantly, no one lights the fire, it just happens on its own. A body bursting into flame on its own. That sound like anyone we know? We've seen Fawkes do that several times now in the course of the Harry Potter books, and you know what happens to Fawkes after every time it does.

Earlier in the book, we saw several instances where Dumbledore uses fire, an important aspect of the symbol of a phoenix. When he first meets Tom Riddle in the orphanage, to demonstrate he's a wizard, he sets Tom's wardrobe on fire. And he conjures fire to protect Harry and himself from the infiri in the cave.

And after all this, in case we didn't get the allusions to a phoenix, J.K. reminds us just in case:

White smoke spiraled into the air and made strange shapes: Harry thought, for one heart-stopping moment, that he saw a phoenix fly joyfully into the blue, but next second the fire had vanished. (HBP pg 645/601)

All these clues seem to suggest that if Dumbledore really did die, he has the ability to be reborn out of the ashes of his death, either under his own power, or with the help of the healing powers of Fawkes.

These were the clues that had me most enchanted... I sincerely believed there was more to DD's death than originally presumed, but these are fantastic.

With regard to DD being 'flammable', do any of you think it's at all possible for DD to be a Animagi? Perhaps unregistered because of who he is, etc... he could be a Phoenix. It seems plausible, to me anyway 😄

2. What Hagrid Overheard

Harry is talking to Hagrid after the poisoning of Ron, and Hagrid lets it slip that he overheard something he shouldn't have:

I was comin' outta the forest the other evenin' an' I overheard 'em talking -- well, arguin'. ... I jus' heard Snape sayin' Dumbledore took too much fer granted an' maybe he -- Snape -- didn' wan' ter do it anymore ... Dumbledore told him flat out he'd agreed ter do it an' that was all there was to it." (HBP pg 405/380)

This clue comes right out and tells us that Snape is following the orders of Dumbledore, although we now see whatever Snape has promised to do for Dumbledore is difficult or unpleasant.

We also now have comfirmation that Dumbledore has a plan, which involves Snape, and Dumbleore is confident that the plan that Snape has agreed to will proceed.

3. No DADA Teacher Has Lasted More Than 1 Year

For every Hogwarts year that is documented in the Harry Potter books so far, it stands out prominently that there has been a different Defense Against The Dark Arts teacher each year.

They even joked about it at the beginning of the previous book, when the kids are looking over their just arrived book lists for the year, and they're wondering who assigned the Slinkhard book, as it meant Dumbledore had found a new DADA teacher:

Fred told Harry ... "Dumbledore was having real trouble finding anyone to do the job this year." "Not surprising, is it, when you look at what's happened to the last four?" said George. "One sacked, one dead, one's memory erased, and one locked in a trunk for nine months," said Harry, counting them off on his fingers. "Yeah, I see what you mean." (OotP pg 161/146)

And in Half-Blood Prince, Harry, Ron and Hermione talk about this again when they are surprised at the sorting feast that Snape will be DADA teacher that year:

"Well, there's one good thing," [Harry] said savagely. "Snape'll be gone by the end of the year." "What do you mean?" asked Ron. "That job's jinxed. No one's lasted more than a year...Quirell actually died doing it..." (HBP pg 167/159)

Ironically, it turns out, Harry was literally right. When Tom Riddle returned after a ten year absence to again request to be a teacher at Hogwarts, Dumbledore rejected him, and upon Harry's questioning, Dumbledore gave us some important insight into the Hogwarts DADA teacher situation:

"Was he after the Defense Against the Dark Arts job again, sir? He didn't say..." "Oh, he definitely wanted the Defense Against the Dark Arts job," said Dumbledore. "The aftermath of our little meeting proved that. You see, we have never been able to keep a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher for longer than a year since I refused the post to Lord Voldemort." (HBP pg 446/418)

So, Dumbledore himself is admitting he knows that Voldemort cursed the DADA teacher job. This means he knew about the curse when he assigned Snape to the job this year. But he never intended Snape to be in the job for longer than a year to begin with, as his plan for Snape to kill him and flee at the end of the year must have already been in place.

5. Severus... Please...

If you believe that Snape is acting on Dumbledore's orders to kill him (or possibly just make it look like he killed him, although he'd probably still be hurting him), then Snape's demeanor and Dumbledore's final words take on a whole new meaning.

...somebody else had spoken Snape's name, quite softly. "Severus..." The sound frightened Harry beyond anything he had experienced all evening. For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading. Snape said nothing, but walked forward and pushed Malfoy roughly out of the way. ... Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face. "Severus... Please..." (HBP pg 595/556)

In that passage the reader is supposed to believe that Snape hates Dumbledore and feels revulsion for him.

But to help us understand the real meaning of Snape's feelings of revulsion and hatred, J.K. used almost the exact same words for what Harry was feeling just one chapter previous:

"You...you can't stop, Professor," said Harry. "You've got to keep drinking, remember? You told me you had to keep drinking. Here..." Hating himself, repulsed by what he was doing, Harry forced the goblet back toward Dumbledore's mouth ... (HBP pg 571/534)

Even though Snape was to kill Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders, it must have been something that was still really emotional and difficult for Snape to do, exactly as it was for Harry to make Dumbledore drink the potion.

The feeling of revulsion on Snape's face was not for Dumbledore, but the act he knew he had to commit. The hatred was not for Dumbledore, but for what Dumbledore was making him do.

And when Dumbledore said, "Severus... Please..." he wasn't begging "please don't". What he was really saying was, "Severus, please kill me, as you promised you would."

Way back at the end the first book, when Dumbledore confirms for Harry that Flamel would die now that the philosopher's stone was gone, Dumbledore explained:

"To one as young as you, I'm sure it seems incredible, but to Nicolas and Perenelle, it really is like going to bed after a very, very long day. After all, to the well-organised mind, death is but the next great adventure." (SS/PS pg 297/215)

Does that sound to you like someone who would beg to save his own life?

And these are just fascinating... I agree with evey single word said, every single hint. Excellent ✅

WHOAH!!!

Syren, you just made me think. Okay, so what if Dumbledore could turn into a phoenix?

When his body was lying on the table, it burst into flames. This could mean Dumbledore being reborn!! The smoke obscured the body, and after it had gone, in its place (i.e. they could no longer see the body or table) was the white tomb. Everybody at the funeral presumed that Dumbledore's body was in there, but get this... Harry thought he saw a phoenix flying joyfully into the blue!!

JKR never, never, NEVER writes anything in her books that don't mean anything. What if that phoenix was Dumbledore??

Fawkes had already 'left', so it couldn't have been him.

It could have been Dumbledore!! It would make sense...

Here's the passage:

Then several people screamed. Bright, white flames had erupted around Dumbledore's body ((Remember, it was covered up.)) and the table upon which it lay: Higher and higher they rose obscuring the body. White smoke spiraled in the air and made strange shapes: Harry thought, for one heart-stopping moment, that he saw a phoenix fly joyfully into the blue, but next second the fire had vanished. In its place was a white marble tomb, encasing Dumbledore's body ((They are assuming; they cannot see it, obviously.)) and the table on which he had rested.

This is totally crazy!!!! I'm flippin out, here!! 😱

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, this is on page 645 in the American edition.

lol i had thought of that..even before book 6 i thought it would be SO cool if Dumbledore had some of himself in Fawkes cause then he could NEVER die, but i dont think so any more and those bright white flames were just the formation of the tomb. I want him back 🙁

Originally posted by air
lol i had thought of that..even before book 6 i thought it would be SO cool if Dumbledore had some of himself in Fawkes cause then he could NEVER die, but i dont think so any more and those bright white flames were just the formation of the tomb. I want him back 🙁

But we can't be sure about that, after all.

Yeah, maybe Dumbledore is an animagi. That guy is really making think that Dumbledore is alive.