Kas'im versus Mace Windu

Originally posted by Escape81
Kas'Im, I don't know you that well, but I've got a really good reading off of you, after seeing you debate and then debating with you, myself.

a. You are a very good debator.
b. But you pull stuff out of your ass and try to pass it off as if it has some bearing on the argument.

In this case, it doesn't.

Mace invented Vapaad. Kas'Im didn't know it. Revan didn't know it. Bane didn't know it.

Accept it and move on. Kas'Im has no clue about it, and therefore, unless he's Grievous - wouldn't be able to mimic it or analyze it.

With the flow walking technique, it's certainly possible.

Before we continue, Kas'Im possesses the 'flow walk' ability?

If the sith learned from the Aing Tii, how come Kaan didn't go into the future and stop Bane or learn how to prevent his death after the thought bomb?

Originally posted by Escape81
Before we continue, Kas'Im possesses the 'flow walk' ability?

No my point is that when you consider techniques in the force such as flow walking, force visions, predicting the future etc., it makes the idea that someone could have learnt a technique that was invented after they learnt it much less ludicrous.

Originally posted by Kas'Im
No my point is that when you consider techniques in the force such as flow walking, force visions, predicting the future etc., it makes the idea that someone could have learnt a technique that was invented after they learnt it much less ludicrous.

Can you confirm that Sirak proved Vaapad? It specifically says Vaapad?

Well he is stated to know Vaapad, when you look deeply into how the force works and consider the possibilities, it doesn't quite count as a contradiction, so it's perfectly valid.

Yep

" At one moment SIrak seemed to be using the thrusts and jabs of Vaapad...."

Kas'im you are wrong. He is stated to know form 7, Juyo. There is NOTHING about him knowing Vaapad.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Kas'im you are wrong. He is stated to know form 7, Juyo. There is NOTHING about him knowing Vaapad.

He and i must have misprints then because my book says that he did.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
He and i must have misprints then because my book says that he did.

Then the KotoR-fanboy-geek who wrote that book (he's a loser for crediting all the crap that Bane did - to Revan, the scumbag) is wrong. It is canon that Mace invented Vaapad.

Im pretty sure its Juyo.

Obi-Wan Kenobi is the greatest user of Soresu. His mastery of it has been acknowledged by Mace Windu and even by the whole Jedi Order. With this mastery, he was able to take on the likes of Anakin Skywalker, Durge, Asajj Ventress, and General Grievous. Unless you can name a person who has better skill in Soresu than Obi-Wan, he is the greatest Soresu user.

Just because Kas’Im is the best swordsmen of the New Sith Order, does that mean the skill level of the NSO is greater than the PT Era. Probably not, as the PT has personalities such as Yoda, Windu, Skywalker, Drallig, Koon, Vos, Kenobi, and Billaba. I highly doubt Kas’Im is greater than Anakin Skywalker and Count Dooku. And note, Obi-Wan is only a little bit behind the previous two.

And yes, Kas’Im is getting a little bit overrated. Seriously, Mace Windu and Yoda are considered to be one of the BEST swordsmen and Jedi of all time. Do you honestly believe that the Twi’Lek Battlemaster is greater than Darth Sidious? And Mace Windu defeated Sidious in saber combat.

I am not degrading Kas’Im. I know he is powerful. I can admit that he might be equal to or slightly better than Kenobi (only with proof however). But to say he is better than Anakin is preposterous.

he's a loser for crediting all the crap that Bane did - to Revan, the scumbag

lol, so true.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Mace Windu. Kas'Im is good, but not good as Windu.

Damn good point, Quinlan.

Im back BTW. 😛
Went to Amsterdam to smoke some legal Hasheesh. 😉

Anyways, from what I've read of Kas'Im, he sounds really, really, damned impressive. Like a total Master.

But, I'd still rate him somewhere below Windu, even with a lightsaber.

Mace also mastered all seven forms - and then took them all to an even higher level with his Vapaad.

Plus If Kas'Im used the Darkside in his fight with Windu, wich he would since he's a Sith Lord, then Windu would just use Kas'Im's own energy to fuel his attacks, and then anything else, he'd just redirect back into him.

So either way, he'd win.

And If he used Shatterpoint, Kas'Im would be dead in under a minuite.

Mace Windu Wins.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Obi-Wan Kenobi is the greatest user of Soresu. His mastery of it has been acknowledged by Mace Windu and even by the whole Jedi Order. With this mastery, he was able to take on the likes of Anakin Skywalker, Durge, Asajj Ventress, and General Grievous. Unless you can name a person who has better skill in Soresu than Obi-Wan, he is the greatest Soresu user.

I am not degrading Kas’Im. I know he is powerful. I can admit that he might be equal to or slightly better than Kenobi (only with proof however). But to say he is better than Anakin is preposterous.

Mace wins though.

Hey Sexy, why don't you give me proof why you think Kas'Im is better than Windu or even Kenobi for that fact? how are you assuming that Kas'Im's Jar'Kai is better than Obi-Wan's Soresu besides the fact Kas'Im beat Bane, who's not much of a lightsaber user.

Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Hey Sexy, why don't you give me proof why you think Kas'Im is better than Windu or even Kenobi for that fact? how are you assuming that Kas'Im's Jar'Kai is better than Obi-Wan's Soresu besides the fact Kas'Im beat Bane, who's not much of a lightsaber user.

Proof? Kas'im mastered all 7 lightsaber forms, the jar'kai form, and the double bladed lightsaber. Not even Yoda had mastered all of that. Now the ONUS is on you to prove that Obiwan was the best practitioner of Soresu, and could even stand on the same ground as Bane. With your logic, Obiwan>new sith order.
Bane's not much of a lightsaber user? He was the best in the academy..And Obiwan's Soresu was useless against Dooku, so what makes you think he'll be able to employ it against someone as superior as Kas'im.

OMFG Cin Drallig masterd all the Forms, do you see him beating Kenobi!!!??? So what, you're just picking Yoda so you can say Kas'Im=Yoda which is a mere speculation and is stupid.
And yes, I don't see what's wrong with saying the saber skills of Kenobi are greater than the New Sith Order. Even if Kas'Im COULD beat Kenobi, to say he's greater than Anakin is stupid.

I can't give exact proof saying Anakin > Kas'Im except he did a sh*tload of things during the CW. In addition, he was said to be the best Djem So user seen by Dooku, who was Battlemaster of the pre-PT era (besides NJO Luke). He was said to be the greatest swordsmen of his time and said to be on par with Yoda and Windu. He defeated Dooku, who was a master of the Dark Side and the lightsaber.

And even if Bane is powerful with the saber, I doubt he can defeat Kenobi in saber combat. I would rate him just below. Thus, Kas’Im could be better than Obi-Wan, but he’s DEFINITELY not on par with Windu, Skywalker, or Yoda.

And yes, I have to speculate. Kas’Im is a master of the saber, but to say he knows all forms and can beat Bane in the saber, that doesn’t mean he can defeat Windu as you don’t even know if Bane > Obi-Wan in the saber, which I doubt, as Obi-Wan is a Jedi Guardian and is more martial than using the Force. He’s not the master of Defense for no reason. He held off Anakin Skywalker, who I certainly believe can oust Bane in a saber duel.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Proof? Kas'im mastered all 7 lightsaber forms, the jar'kai form, and the double bladed lightsaber. Not even Yoda had mastered all of that. Now the ONUS is on you to prove that Obiwan was the best practitioner of Soresu, and could even stand on the same ground as Bane. With your logic, Obiwan>new sith order.
Bane's not much of a lightsaber user? He was the best in the academy..And Obiwan's Soresu was useless against Dooku, so what makes you think he'll be able to employ it against someone as superior as Kas'im.

because kasim has never heard of vaapad and yet shatterpoint