Originally posted by GalacticStormIts stated in many a source
that the Phoenix Forces energies are the Big Bang
and that it also perpetuates the creation cycle.
On Panel:
Reed Richards saw with his own eyes who the REAL Big Bang is,
how the Big Bang is initiated,
and even where the "SPARK" originates from.
And it has absolutely nothing to do with Jean, or the Phoenix Force.
Originally posted by GalacticStormIt is literally the Big Bang turned sentient.
In fact, it is clearly stated by the Phoenix Force itself,
it was born in the Big Bang, not the other way around.
"this is how I came into being"
...........................................................................
The Phoenix Force official Handbook bio confirms this fact:
"Reborn from the fires of the Big Bang"
...........................................................................
Like all the Abstracts,
they remain constant through any Big Bang because they're all reborn.
Originally posted by GalacticStormIts manifestation within reality(the Firebird avatar) keeps the creation cycle revolving:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I bet no one can present a single scan of Phoenix initiating The Big Bang,
or the "Spark" ... or even having anything to do with any Big Bang at all.
Originally posted by GalacticStormIm saying that its canon that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang.
It's canon that in 2006
the Alien Entity was finally depicted
as the true creator of the "Spark" that ignites the Big Bang.
The Alien Entity also harnessed the Fires/Engines of Creation,
the Alien Entity also merged with those energies,
making it the embodiment of said energies.
All On Panel literally actually happening. 🙂
The Alien Entity, 2006, On Panel, the true Big Bang!
......................................................................................
Here's the REAL "Spark"
that ignites the creation of the Marvel Universe through the Big Bang:
......................................................................................
The Alien Entity transcends Marvel's Space/Time seemingly folding everything
to it's Pre-Big Bang Void: (from here proceeds to literally create the "Spark"😉
......................................................................................
The Alien Entity/Reed created the "Spark" that ignites the Fires/Engines of Creation:
......................................................................................
And indeed, the Alien Entity even manipulated the "Spark" into motion:
"Let there be Light ... let the Universe itself ... become"
Heh... just looking back one page, and I find that Quan conceded here.
Originally posted by quanchi112O K Quan.
I didnt concede one damn thing. He clearly was lying. I only stated that one could argue that Surfer stands a chance at beating Prime,although I myself see Prime winning against the Surfer.
I Be Lieve You.
*wink, wink*
Originally posted by Mr Master
The Alien Entity, 2006, On Panel, the true Big Bang!......................................................................................
Here's the REAL "Spark"
of the Marvel Universe through the Big Bang:
[b]that ignites the creation......................................................................................
The Alien Entity transcends Marvel's Space/Time seemingly folding everything
to it's Pre-Big Bang Void: (from here proceeds to literally create the "Spark"😉
......................................................................................
The Alien Entity/Reed created the "Spark" that ignites the Fires/Engines of Creation:
......................................................................................
And indeed, the Alien Entity even manipulated the "Spark" into motion:
"Let there be Light ... let the Universe itself ... become"
Before we start, let’s establish a few things which are fundamental to this debate.
Definitions
Surgery-
Surgery is a medical technology consisting of a physical intervention on tissues. As a general rule, a procedure is considered surgical when it involves cutting of a patient's tissues or closure of a previously sustained wound.
Disinfection-
To cleanse so as to destroy or prevent the growth of disease-carrying microorganisms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinfect#Phenolics
http://www.microbiologytext.com/index.php?module=Book&func=displayarticlesinchapter&chap_id=56
Amputation-
A procedure where a surgeon removes a limb, or part of a limb, that is no longer useful to you, is causing you great pain, or is threatening your health because of extensive infection.
Severe injury or disease can sometimes damage portions of the body beyond their capacity to regenerate or heal. Infection can spread through your body and threaten your life. The infection sites provide a stronghold to dangerous bacteria, which can spread to other parts of the body. When there is no hope that damaged or infected tissue can be restored to its healthy state, an amputation might be necessary to protect the rest of the body from the spreading of infection. Physicians consider amputation a last resort.
http://www.metrohealth.org/body.cfm?id=1453
http://health.howstuffworks.com/amputation.htm/printable
To summarize amputation and disinfection are not interchangeable terms in the slightest. Surgery is an invasive procedure that usually involves the removal or the cutting of a patient’s tissue. Disinfection is a process to cleanse an area from infection by removing bacteria from an infection site. Methods to achieve this can involve temperature variation, irradiation, chemicals, antiseptics/antibiotics etc. It is not an invasive procedure, it is not surgery. It can however play a part of the treatment process. Surgeons clean the infection site prior to surgery. However one does not equate to the other.
With this in mind, the viewpoint that the terms disinfect and amputate refer to the same thing in the scene is conclusively incorrect. There is no getting around that.
Jean Grey removes the essence of Sublime from Beast, thereby performing the disinfection.
However removing bacteria from an infection site doesn’t necessarily make for a happy ending, especially if the damage caused by the bacteria is beyond the ability of the body to repair itself. In extreme cases amputation is required to prevent the damaged area from going gangrenous and setting up the body for further infection.
Jean questions whether the surgery is complete. After her reboot at the hands of Martha, she is still disoriented. She doesn’t know if that’s all she had to do.
Over the next page or so, reality begins to fade out at which point Jean states she had to amputate the future because the bacterial colony went rogue(the fade out could be explained by this statement)
This is in line with a typical surgical process of this nature. The area has been disinfected (Jean removed the essence of Sublime) the infection site was too greatly damaged; therefore she amputated the affected part of the patient ( the timeline)
Your own handbook entry you’ve presented as evidence confirms that she severed the HCT future from the multiverse;(as does marvunapp.com http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/mkraancrystal.htm ) it’s possible that the fade out of the HCT reality she was standing in is an artistic depiction of this. Furthermore I have established that the terms disinfection and amputate are not interchangeable as they mean different things and are both separate steps in the treatment process.
With that in mind it is irrelevant if you don’t understand exactly why she did it. Just accept the fact that she stated she did it, the fade out on panel indicates she did it, the subsequent comments from the Phoenix Consciousness and Quentin telling her to grow a new future to replace the one she cut away supports the fact that she did it and finally the handbook confirms she did it. You being unsure of what power she used to do it or being sceptical of the artistic depiction of it does not change that.
It was only a matter of time 😉
Originally posted by Mr Master
Hyperbole, and he's not even speaking in absolutes "or what have you"
He stated that Galactus was transformed by the energies of creation. That is an absolute. What he was not setting in stone, but was instead leaving up to the listener was what term they wanted to refer to those energies as. "Call it the Big Bang or the Phoenix Force what have you". In other words whatever term you wish to apply.
Its like me saying the biggest cat in North America is the cougar. Call it the mountain lion or puma what have you i.e its up to you.
So my point stands. Reed Richards equated the Force to the energies of creation.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Reed Richards [b]saw with his own eyes who the REAL Big Bang is,
how the Big Bang is initiated,
and even where the "SPARK" originates from.And it has absolutely nothing to do with Jean, or the Phoenix Force.[/B]
Omission does not equate to retcon. Especially when that interpretation brought up in that single F4 arc is unsupported by any other story arc or in any other marvel publication. Its just one writers interpretation.
There are many other scans from various titles giving the Phoenix credit for that role. Be objective. Dont be so selective in which equally valid on panel accounts you choose to acknowledge.
Originally posted by Mr Master
No where in that scan does it say Jean or the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang,
it doesn't even allude to that idea.
In fact, it is clearly stated by the Phoenix Force itself,
it was born in the Big Bang, not the other way around."this is [b]how
I came into being"[/B]
Of course it alludes to the point. You have many scans from various different titles stating the Phoenix to be the energies of creation from which life comes from and then this Excalibur scan shows the Phoenix to be the energies of the Big Bang turned sentient.
This is how i came into being refers to the sentience of the Force, because prior to it awakening to reality, it was just the formless energies of the Big Bang.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The Phoenix Force official Handbook bio confirms this fact:"Reborn from the fires of the Big Bang"
Reborn.
Not created. Reborn. You have to have existed previously to be reborn Mr. Master.
Every creation cycle it is reverted to formless energies at the end and reborn during the Big Bang event. According to Phoenix mythology it’s the Forces representation in reality, be it the firebird avatar or a host that perpetuates this cycle. So in effect it is responsible for its own death and rebirth n the natural scheme of things.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The Watcher was wrong on this one,
proven On Panel
when the Alien Entity created the "SPARK" that ignites the Big Bang,
when the Alien Entity literally initiated the "Spark" into action,
then the Alien Entity literally
using Reed's mind as a guide, re-created the Marvel Universe.Jean hyperbolizing about herself.
I bet no one can present a single scan of Phoenix initiating The Big Bang,
or the "Spark" ... or even having anything to do with any Big Bang at all.Not true friend.
It's canon that in 2006
the Alien Entity was finally depicted
as the true creator of the "Spark" that ignites the Big Bang.The Alien Entity also harnessed the Fires/Engines of Creation,
the Alien Entity also merged with those energies,
making it the embodiment of said energies.All On Panel literally actually happening. 🙂
There are a variety of accounts linking the Phoenix to the Big Bang AFTER that single interpretation within F4.
That F4 interpretation has no support before or after its publication. On top of that the Watchers comments came AFTER that publication just last year in 2006. Whereas i think you'll find this F4 are began in F4 #530 until F4 #532. That’s October 2005 until December 2005
The Phoenix has been stated to have the role on panel various times by reputable characters such as Eternity, the Watcher, the Stranger, Death and even by writers. That is enough for the sake of debate.
You want to believe that this Entity is responsible instead? That’s your prerogative. Each to their own. However my interpretation is both more consistently supported and more recently supported on panel than yours, therefore you can't state it to be a fact that the Phoenix does not have that role. Just accept that it’s also been attributed that role and leave it at that. It’s up to Marvel to give further clarification, not for you to dictate what’s right and wrong when it’s stated quite clearly on panel.
Here’s a quote from marvel.com that I think is very relevant here:
Perhaps the fact that multiple beings have experienced multiple origins of the universe actually means that the 616 reality is always in a state of flux, constantly re-writing itself as time goes on.
Now let’s leave it at that. 🙂
