Thanos with IG vs White Crown Phoenix

Originally posted by Mr Master
Like defeating the power of the Marvel Multiverse (616 Eternity) instantly? 🙂

Technically speaking (concerning just Multiversal feats) IG = UN

Taking into consideration everything that was stated about both the IG and the UN,
by the LT/Eternity/Galactus/Thanos/Warlock
and the freakin writer Jim Starlin himself in an interview,
IG >>> UN by leaps and bounds.

In fact, the LT also stated that the IG could basically destroy
both the Multiverse housing the Ultraverse,
and the Prime Multiverse (contains 616)
if reassembled in the wrong hands.

I acknowledge that there are appearances of "Eternity" that flip-flop between whether he is the embodiment of the universe or the entire multiverse. But it is clear that the Infinity Gauntlet storyline dealt with one universe: the 616 Universe. Throughout the overwhelming majority of the series and it's tie-ins, they refer to "this actuality," "this reality," "this universe," "this sphere." The plot deals overwhelmingly with 616 characters, even 616 Abstracts (Uatu, 616 Galactus, 616 Stranger, etc). Furthermore, there are manifestations of the same episode that occur in alternate universes (i.e. What If Silver Surfer..., What If Impossible Man..., etc).

Technically speaking, 616 Eternity is the foundation. If he goes, it all goes. But when you want to demolish an entire building, it takes less power to obliterate a single pillar causing it to cascade, than it does obliterating the entire building outright. Simply put:

UN resets Multi-Eternity on-panel.
IG conquers 616 Eternity on-panel.

Multi-Eternity as he appeared in Abraxas > 616 Eternity as he appeared in Infinity Gauntlet.

Therefore UN > IG. Based on actualized feats rather than purple prose. This is my opinion.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your admitted use of technicalities is still based on stretched logic which runs contrary to clear on-panel presentation. As was made clear on-panel in the Abraxas storyline, Multi-Eternity is a more concrete representation of the Marvel Multiverse. He unequivocally represents the entire Marvel Multiverse and was remade on-panel by the UN instantly:

I acknowledge that there are appearances of "Eternity" that flip-flop between whether he is the embodiment of the universe or the entire multiverse. But it is clear that the Infinity Gauntlet storyline dealt with one universe: the 616 Universe. Throughout the overwhelming majority of the series and it's tie-ins, they refer to "this actuality," "this reality," "this universe," "this sphere." The plot deals overwhelmingly with 616 characters, even 616 Abstracts (Uatu, 616 Galactus, 616 Stranger, etc). Furthermore, there are manifestations of the same episode that occur in alternate universes (i.e. What If Silver Surfer..., What If Impossible Man..., etc).

Technically speaking, 616 Eternity is the foundation. If he goes, it all goes. But when you want to demolish an entire building, it takes less power to obliterate a single pillar causing it to cascade, than it does obliterating the entire building outright. Simply put:

UN resets Multi-Eternity on-panel.
IG conquers 616 Eternity on-panel.

Multi-Eternity as he appeared in Abraxas > 616 Eternity as he appeared in Infinity Gauntlet.

Therefore UN > IG. Based on actualized feats rather than purple prose. This is my opinion.

ODG. You can argue which individual feat is greater then which between the UN and the IG all you want. It's all relative and with some personal opinion on which is better. However, what is undeniable is the IG ON PANEL WTF Pwned the UN. You already admitted that thanks to the versatility of the IG means that the IG beats the UN heads up which is all that matters. You can't argue the uN in greater then the iG because of one feat when the writers on panel proved and wanted to show the exact opposite which is the IG >UN period.

^ Don't put words into my mouth.

Magus w/ IG > Quasar w/ UN. That's the only undeniable thing.

According to your logic: BA > Spectre. Maelstrom > IG. If you can't see how ridiculously backwards that is, then I'll not waste my time explaining it to you.

UN = far greater scope of power. On-panel.

the only reason the UN has shown a greater scope than the IG is because the user of the IG's intention, of what they wanted to achieve with the gauntlet.

^ That is speculation without support. In fact, it is contradicted by the fact that Nebula did not intend to be blind-sided by Adam Warlock... but she was. And contradicted by the fact that Thanos intended to annihilate Maelstrom... but he couldn't. The IG has it's limitations. Ultimately, such speculation does not change the comparative analysis when deciding what artifact has a greater scope of power. You look to the feats. Pretty simple:

UN resets Multi-Eternity on-panel.
IG conquers 616 Eternity on-panel.

Multi-Eternity as he appeared in Abraxas > 616 Eternity as he appeared in Infinity Gauntlet.

Therefore UN > IG.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ That is speculation without support. In fact, it is contradicted by the fact that Nebula did not intend to be blind-sided by Adam Warlock... but she was. And contradicted by the fact that Thanos intended to annihilate Maelstrom... but he couldn't. The IG has it's limitations. Ultimately, such speculation does not change the comparative analysis when deciding what artifact has a greater scope of power. You look to the feats. Pretty simple:

UN resets Multi-Eternity on-panel.
IG conquers 616 Eternity on-panel.

Multi-Eternity as he appeared in Abraxas > 616 Eternity as he appeared in Infinity Gauntlet.

Therefore UN > IG.

^ It is speculation that a 616 IG user is limited only by their personal intentions. I already proved that to you when I mentioned Nebula's failure to detect Adam Warlock and Thanos' failure to annihilate Maelstrom.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ That is speculation without support. In fact, it is contradicted by the fact that Nebula did not intend to be blind-sided by Adam Warlock... but she was. And contradicted by the fact that Thanos intended to annihilate Maelstrom... but he couldn't. The IG has it's limitations. Ultimately, such speculation does not change the comparative analysis when deciding what artifact has a greater scope of power. You look to the feats. Pretty simple:

UN resets Multi-Eternity on-panel.
IG conquers 616 Eternity on-panel.

Multi-Eternity as he appeared in Abraxas > 616 Eternity as he appeared in Infinity Gauntlet.

Therefore UN > IG.

I wonder if you've already addressed this, because even though I disagree, your conclusion looks sound...if you ignore Rune w/ IG and Nemesis. So, how do you write that off?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Your admitted use of technicalities is still based on stretched logic which runs contrary to clear on-panel presentation. As was made clear on-panel in the Abraxas storyline, Multi-Eternity is a more concrete representation of the Marvel Multiverse. He unequivocally represents the entire Marvel Multiverse and was remade on-panel by the UN instantly

Now you brought out the Abraxas scans, nice, I know that story inside out,
what you left out out of the scans you presented, is how Captain Universe on the right side of that two page splash,
clearly calls Multi-Eternity ... Eternity, The Universe!

Not to mention, they're withIN 616 in this scene. 🙂

Not to mention, Reed also calls "Multi-Eternity" ... "Eternity"

Not to mention, in the same arc,
Roma also calls "Multi-Eternity" ... "The Universe" ... "Eternity" ...
"ALL That Ever Was, Ever Is, or Ever Will Be"

(They're still IN 616) heh.

Not to mention,
Abraxas' own bio tells us Abraxas was born withIN Eternity,
not any "Multi-Eternity"

Sensibly enough,
616 Eternity's bio is exactly where the Abraxas arc is referenced:

This is because 616 is the focal point of the Marvel Universe,
the core, the heart of the Omniverse,
where all energy billows out to support all the other UniverseS,
heck in fact,
the place from where the infinite # of UniverseS of all creation are dying and being born.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

I acknowledge that there are appearances of "Eternity" that flip-flop between whether he is the embodiment of the universe or the entire multiverse. But it is clear that the Infinity Gauntlet storyline dealt with one universe: the 616 Universe. Throughout the overwhelming majority of the series and it's tie-ins, they refer to "this actuality," "this reality," "this universe," "this sphere." The plot deals overwhelmingly with 616 characters, even 616 Abstracts (Uatu, 616 Galactus, 616 Stranger, etc). Furthermore, there are manifestations of the same episode that occur in alternate universes (i.e. What If Silver Surfer..., What If Impossible Man..., etc).

But good info for the others.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Technically speaking, 616 Eternity is the foundation. If he goes, it all goes. But when you want to demolish an entire building, it takes less power to obliterate a single pillar causing it to cascade, than it does obliterating the entire building outright.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Simply put:

UN resets Multi-Eternity on-panel.
IG conquers 616 Eternity on-panel.

So IG defeats the power of the infinite Multiverse in one shot.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Multi-Eternity as he appeared in Abraxas >
616 Eternity as he appeared in Infinity Gauntlet.

616 Eternity is just as Multiversal as Multi-Eternity.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Therefore UN < IG.

Based on actualized feats rather than purple prose.

This is my opinion.

Originally posted by Mr Master
"Multi-Eternity" is simply all of Eternity, or, Eternity's totality, or 616 Eternity.

Now you brought out the Abraxas scans, nice, I know that story inside out,
what you left out out of the scans you presented, is how Captain Universe on the right side of that two page splash,
clearly [b]calls Multi-Eternity ... Eternity, The Universe!

Not to mention, they're withIN 616 in this scene. 🙂

Not to mention, Reed also calls "Multi-Eternity" ... "Eternity"

Not to mention, in the same arc,
Roma also calls "Multi-Eternity" ... "The Universe" ... "Eternity" ...
"ALL That Ever Was, Ever Is, or Ever Will Be"

(They're still IN 616) heh.

Not to mention,
Abraxas' own bio tells us Abraxas was born withIN Eternity,
not any "Multi-Eternity"

Sensibly enough,
616 Eternity's bio is exactly where the Abraxas arc is referenced:

This is because 616 is the focal point of the Marvel Universe,
the core, the heart of the Omniverse,
where all energy billows out to support all the other UniverseS,
heck in fact,
the place from where the infinite # of UniverseS of all creation are dying and being born.

Ok, I never said it wasn't 616.

But good info for the others.

This isn't the reason why 616 is more than special,
concerning Eternity's power.

Multi-Eternity is 616 Eternity.

So IG defeats the power of the infinite Multiverse in one shot.

Nah.

616 Eternity is just as Multiversal as Multi-Eternity.

Also the fact that an Incomplete IG dominated the UN's energies. [/B]

No-one could ever accuse you of not providing evidence...

Since back in the day,

616 Eternity has been the representative power of all creation!

(he's just not written like he should be many times) 🙁

..................................................................................

616 Eternity appears before Strange:

Eternity is Time incarnated ...

When he raises a Hand which holds whole universeS withIN it,

Past Present and Future"

..................................................................................

More recently than that above:

That's 616 Eternity that Dr Strange is talking about,
when Dormy was clearly dealing with the Multiverse's power.

Strange:

"As I suspected,
he's managed to siphon off the Infinite energies of Eternity himself"

Namor:

"You speak as if Dormammu has become some kind of ... GOD."

Strange:

"GOD --- may be too small a word"

Namor:

"We've face self-styled gods before ... everytime we've stopped them"

Strange:

"You don't understand?

Eternity IS A GOD! He is ...
the complete embodiment of everyone and everything ...
... on All levels of Creation"

....................................................................................

Dormammu gets ready to travel to Eternity's core, the 616 reality:

"All of Eternity's power will be mine ...
I go now into the mystery of Eternity ...
the power of Creation itself"

.............................................................................................

He transcends from the Dimension of Manifestations, into the 616 Reality.

What is the power of 616 Eternity?

"Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,
Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,
and yet I sense that ALL This -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is,

the core, the Heart of Eternity's being ... here All Energy, All Matter, lies,
I will detonate Eternity's Heart --- triggering another Creation event,
Re-Birthing every being and thing in All the UniverseS"

.............................................................................................

When Dormy emerged from this, he interestingly enough remade 616.

^ I already stated that Eternity and Multi-Eternity are names that are interchangeable. You haven't pointed out anything that I haven't already recognized, nor have you pointed out anything that changes my analysis. As I clearly discussed before: 616 Eternity in the Infinity Gauntlet storyline only represents the 616 Universe. The Eternity or Multi-Eternity seen in the Abraxas storyline represents the entire Marvel Multiverse.

Therefore, the original premise still stands:

UN resets Multi-Eternity on-panel.
IG conquers 616 Eternity on-panel.

Multi-Eternity as he appeared in Abraxas > 616 Eternity as he appeared in [i]Infinity Gauntlet.

Therefore UN > IG.

I'm unclear what is so difficult to figure out here...

Your argument is that Quasar was a newb at using the UN and thus that is the reason IG defeated the UN/Quasar. Yet Magus was also a newb at using the IG and yet he owned a fellow newb in one move. It's on panel and very clear that the writers were making the IG greater then the UN in that arc. No matter how, what or anything of the sort the IG was proved to be superior on panel. The very fact that you gave a variety of ways the IG could've defeated the UN is exactly the point that was made long ago that you did concede. The IG is more versatile then the UN and all things being equal (users) the IG will win. You don't agree with that statement and going against what was on panel?

We have:

Newb with the IG
Newb with the UN
IG pwns the UN in one move.

Do you agree all things being equal in users the IG will win based on options as shown on panel?

Now unless your trying to quantify how much of a newb Quasar was compared to Magus which would be pure speculation on your part. Somehow your saying because the greatest feat the UN ever did is better then the IG which is debatable. However, that is horrible logic because it goes against what we have on panel. The IG never attempted to stop Reed from using the UN to reset the Multiverse so it's speculation what would've happened. It's also speculation that the IG couldn't accomplish a similar feat. Your saying because Thanos hasn't been shown kicking BRB or Glads ass that he couldn't? Clearly the iG didn't a lot of impressive things that are close to or on par with the one long huge feat the UN pulled off. It's not out of the realm of possibility an IG user could do the same thing. Regardless, just because the IG hasn't done a said feat doesn't mean he couldn't. The IG did many high end feats that are comparable to the one high end the UN did. SO, what weren't left with is what happened when two huge artifacts met face to face with equal users.. The IG wtf pwned the UN.

^ Reed used the Ultimate Nullifier to its highest potential we've seen so far. He reset the entire Marvel Multiverse instantly. Thanos used the Infinity Gauntlet to its highest potential we've seen so far. He usurped 616 Eternity's place in the 616 Universe.

We have:

Leet user with UN
Leet user with IG
UN pwned the IG in sheer feat comparison.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Reed used the Ultimate Nullifier to its highest potential we've seen so far. He reset the entire Marvel Multiverse instantly. Thanos used the Infinity Gauntlet to its highest potential we've seen so far. He usurped 616 Eternity's place in the 616 Universe.

We have:

Leet user with UN
Leet user with IG
UN pwned the IG in sheer feat comparison.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I wonder if you've already addressed this, because even though I disagree, your conclusion looks sound...if you ignore Rune w/ IG and Nemesis. So, how do you write that off?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Reed used the Ultimate Nullifier to its highest potential we've seen so far. He reset the entire Marvel Multiverse instantly. Thanos used the Infinity Gauntlet to its highest potential we've seen so far. He usurped 616 Eternity's place in the 616 Universe.

We have:

Leet user with UN
Leet user with IG
UN pwned the IG in sheer feat comparison.

That is a fallacy and pure speculation on your part that Reed used the UN to it's highest potentional. Show me a scan of of this being said. The main reason your argument fails are by the circumstances of both events. The IG wasn't there to oppose the UN's and Reed's move while it was there to stop quasar's on panel. So, your argument fails right there because the IG didn't try and stop the move the Reed tried while it was there and wtf pwnd the move Quasar did. Your speculating at best the Reed was more adept at using the UN when in actuality Quasar with his cosmic awareness should be more adept.

So, you never answered my question... Isn't it true all things being equal (users) what was shown on panel was the IG is superior to the UN? The IG has stated before has many many more ways to win which you gave a number of them. One of which could've been the IG turning the actually nullification energy back on Quasar along with many other possiblities.. It's clear the writers tried and did convey this very thing on panel. Now your trying to use a feat when the IG wasn't even there stopping it like it was that arc as proof the UN > IG. That is not a sound argument at all.

What is though and shown on panel by the writers is

Newb user of the IG
Newb User of the UN
IG wtf pwns the UN in one move

Oops. Moved: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t506267.html

stoned

OMG phuck me.Another IG vs. UN debate?!?!?!?!?!

IG takes this fight.Actually both.