Darth Nihilus and Darth Revan vs. Mace Windu (ROTS) and Plo Koon (AOTC)
Setting: Geonosis (hangar where Dooku escaped)
No instant-kills (Eg; Nihilus' super ability to destroy an entire planet of Force Sensitives).
Even without Nihilus' power, I would hand it to the Sith, as Nihilus is still a hole in the force and Revan was "the Heart of the Force" according to Darth Traya.
About Nihilus, he was actually really strong, even without his force. While his draining ability was in a way a weakness and kind of a curse as he had to constantly drain the force to keep himself alive (draining an entire planet only kept him fully energized for a short while), he was able to drain all of the inhabitants of an entire planet which speaks volumes, however we do know that he needs preparation time to pull it off in one on one combat, as he had to stun the Exile and his party first before trying to drain him.
He was also able to escape death by containing his consciousness within his armor, pretty impressive which most likely required some pretty good force mastery as well as knowledge.
His will was so strong that he was able to hold his entire ship (which had been shattered into pieces) together through the force, which he actively did, constantly - pretty impressive display of TK imo. He was also able to dominate the minds of the crew of his ship, and install his sith assassins with a downgraded version of his force drain.
Also, while he was defeated by The Exile, Visas and Mandalore, this was partly due to the fact that attempting to drain the Exile weakened him like hell, and Visas and The Exile especially were still pretty strong anyway, while Mandalore was also no joke either. And the fact that he was able to instantly stun all three still speaks volumes, if he hadn't gone for the drain, he would have most definitely defeated them.
He was also able to do this to Sion - http://youtube.com/watch?v=IobIhctxRXg - ownage. He was also able to cut off Traya's connection to the force, and this was seemingly before his rise in power - http://youtube.com/watch?v=ENj8jTQEbvU . Damn impressive imo. I'd say he would be a good league above Malak, Sion, the Exile, Traya, and probably only just below Revan.
Originally posted by Kas'Im
About Nihilus, he was actually really strong, even without his force. While his draining ability was in a way a weakness and kind of a curse as he had to constantly drain the force to keep himself alive (draining an entire planet only kept him fully energized for a short while), he was able to drain all of the inhabitants of an entire planet which speaks volumes, however we do know that he needs preparation time to pull it off in one on one combat, as he had to stun the Exile and his party first before trying to drain him.He was also able to escape death by containing his consciousness within his armor, pretty impressive which most likely required some pretty good force mastery as well as knowledge.
His will was so strong that he was able to hold his entire ship (which had been shattered into pieces) together through the force, which he actively did, constantly - pretty impressive display of TK imo. He was also able to dominate the minds of the crew of his ship, and install his sith assassins with a downgraded version of his force drain.
Also, while he was defeated by The Exile, Visas and Mandalore, this was partly due to the fact that attempting to drain the Exile weakened him like hell, and Visas and The Exile especially were still pretty strong anyway, while Mandalore was also no joke either. And the fact that he was able to instantly stun all three still speaks volumes, if he hadn't gone for the drain, he would have most definitely defeated them.
He was also able to do this to Sion - http://youtube.com/watch?v=IobIhctxRXg - ownage. He was also able to cut off Traya's connection to the force, and this was seemingly before his rise in power - http://youtube.com/watch?v=ENj8jTQEbvU . Damn impressive imo. I'd say he would be a good league above Malak, Sion, the Exile, Traya, and probably only just below Revan.
I agree with everything said...except I would actually put Nihilus above Revan, if only ever so slightly.
Originally posted by Kas'Improve that he need to prepare to drain his enemies, he could just be intimidating his enemies. the original uncut kotor2 said that he would suspend you in the air. no sources or even wiki ever stated nihilus needs to prepare before battle,
About Nihilus, he was actually really strong, even without his force. While his draining ability was in a way a weakness and kind of a curse as he had to constantly drain the force to keep himself alive (draining an entire planet only kept him fully energized for a short while), he was able to drain all of the inhabitants of an entire planet which speaks volumes, however we do know that he needs preparation time to pull it off in one on one combat, as he had to stun the Exile and his party first before trying to drain him.
Originally posted by Kas'Im
He was also able to do this to Sion - http://youtube.com/watch?v=IobIhctxRXg - ownage. He was also able to cut off Traya's connection to the force, and this was seemingly before his rise in power - http://youtube.com/watch?v=ENj8jTQEbvU . Damn impressive imo. I'd say he would be a good league above Malak, Sion, the Exile, Traya, and probably only just below Revan. [/B]
below revan? nihilus would wtf pwn revan and kill him instantly.
the only one who would kill nihilus are, supreme overlord shimrra, luke skywalker and the exile, revan can never even touch this guy.
and revan counter with drain? nihilus is a wound in the force, look what happened when he tried to drain the exile, whom is another wound and it weakened nihilus when he attempted to drain,
personaly i would put nihilus above all the other sith lords accept maybe palpatine 🙂 or prehaps a tie with him, and personally id put freedon nadd above him
Originally posted by San'Doria
prove that he need to prepare to drain his enemies, he could just be intimidating his enemies. the original uncut kotor2 said that he would suspend you in the air. no sources or even wiki ever stated nihilus needs to prepare before battle,below revan? nihilus would wtf pwn revan and kill him instantly.
the only one who would kill nihilus are, supreme overlord shimrra, luke skywalker and the exile, revan can never even touch this guy.
and revan counter with drain? nihilus is a wound in the force, look what happened when he tried to drain the exile, whom is another wound and it weakened nihilus when he attempted to drain,personaly i would put nihilus above all the other sith lords accept maybe palpatine 🙂 or prehaps a tie with him, and personally id put freedon nadd above him
Sidious < Bane, Revan, Nihilus, any other Ancienter Sith
Sidious is NOT a God
Originally posted by Escape81
DE Sidious is above every Sith Lord. Get your facts straight.
I disagree, first off, his whole concept sucks, making Vader's sacrifice meaningless, and keeping the Sith alive, second, he should have known those abilties in DE mode before his death, and we saw much weaker prevail over him
I disagree, first off, his whole concept sucks, making Vader's sacrifice meaningless, and keeping the Sith alive,
First off, who cares? I can't stand Dark Empire or any comic book/novel who turns the Force into fricken magical powers. I hate NJO Luke. I hate Exar Kun. To me, the movies personified them best.
Doesn't change a damn thing, though. DE Sidious is more powerful than any other Sith Lord.
second, he should have known those abilties in DE mode before his death, and we saw much weaker prevail over him
You don't dictate what "should" happen. Palpatine didn't complete his Force Storm until after his death.
His Force Storm > Revan's Force Storm > Bane's Force Storm.
He could kill any of them with a single attack.
Originally posted by Escape81
First off, who cares? I can't stand Dark Empire or any comic book/novel who turns the Force into fricken magical powers. I hate NJO Luke. I hate Exar Kun. To me, the movies personified them best.Doesn't change a damn thing, though. DE Sidious is more powerful than any other Sith Lord.
You don't dictate what "should" happen. Palpatine didn't complete his Force Storm until after his death.
His Force Storm > Revan's Force Storm > Bane's Force Storm.
He could kill any of them with a single attack.
According to the EU, your power weakens with death, when was Dark Empire set? 15-20 Years after Battle of Yavin? The Jedi can't stay long after death, neither can the Sith.
Lightsaber skills can't improve for obvious reasons.
ROTS Sidious was technically his peak of Lightsaber skills, Force was probably ROTJ, maybe in between the 2.
He can not improve from what he was before, except maybe his Strength/Speed
And Force Storms have no purpose whatsoever in a Versus fight, they are GIANT, Sidious would kill himself in the Process
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
According to the EU, your power weakens with death, when was Dark Empire set? 15-20 Years after Battle of Yavin? The Jedi can't stay long after death, neither can the Sith.Lightsaber skills can't improve for obvious reasons.
All of this can be explained by the fact that Sidious obtained a new body by DE. Hence he was not just a Sith spirit, and is not bound by the same limitations that a regular sith spirit would face.
His body was functioning at its prime. I mean couple experience, years of force mastery, and new stronger body = far better saber duelist.
ROTS Sidious was technically his peak of Lightsaber skills, Force was probably ROTJ, maybe in between the 2.
Proof?
Either state a source or infer logically.
I would say that DE Sidious' saber skills improved since he possessed a younger body at that time.
And Force Storms have no purpose whatsoever in a Versus fight, they are GIANT, Sidious would kill himself in the Process
I agree with this. Regardless, by DE though, Sidious is known to possess every single dark side technique. Personally I think this guy is lame, but he is the strongest Sith Lord.
Originally posted by zephiel7
All of this can be explained by the fact that Sidious obtained a new body by DE. Hence he was not just a Sith spirit, and is not bound by the same limitations that a regular sith spirit would face.His body was functioning at its prime. I mean couple experience, years of force mastery, and new stronger body = far better saber duelist.
Proof?
Either state a source or infer logically.
I would say that DE Sidious' saber skills improved since he possessed a younger body at that time.
I agree with this. Regardless, by DE though, Sidious is known to possess every single dark side technique. Personally I think this guy is lame, but he is the strongest Sith Lord.
Stronger Body, fine, better Saber Skills
Force Mastery, he would have used most of those abilitys at Yavin
The only thing more Sidious could have improved in Saber-Wise would be his Speed/Strength, there is no Master to teach him better skills
And how is it possible to possess every Power? Didn't each Sith Lord have abilties that no one else could learn? Their Trademark essentially, Nihilus' Eating thing, Sion's Immortality by way of Pain, Traya's uber-Drain, Plagueis' Creation(not yet factually proven, but still). Don't know much about many more, did Marka Ragnos have the power to do what his Sceptor did?
I don't see why people make a big deal out of Palpatines fancy new body, sure its at its physical peak but isn't ever other Jedi's at that too? And there bodies can easily go beyond natural levels with the aid of the force. Also does his younger body really matter when going against someone in a equally young body at its physical peak ie: Luke. The only real advantage he'd have is if he went against an old man.
DE Sidious's force skills increased his saber skills however remained the same, his physical strength did increase too though.
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
According to the EU, your power weakens with death, when was Dark Empire set? 15-20 Years after Battle of Yavin? The Jedi can't stay long after death, neither can the Sith.
Lightsaber skills can't improve for obvious reasons.
ROTS Sidious was technically his peak of Lightsaber skills, Force was probably ROTJ, maybe in between the 2.
He can not improve from what he was before, except maybe his Strength/Speed
And Force Storms have no purpose whatsoever in a Versus fight, they are GIANT, Sidious would kill himself in the Process
And how is it possible to possess every Power? Didn't each Sith Lord have abilties that no one else could learn? Their Trademark essentially, Nihilus' Eating thing, Sion's Immortality by way of Pain, Traya's uber-Drain, Plagueis' Creation
I never disagreed with you here. Sidious does not possess the sheer defensive capabilities of Sion, nor the immense draining abilities of Nihilus...But the important thing is neither of these skills are learnable . I am sure most Sith Lords rather not become a crazy demon ghost- evil being that lost all semblance of human cravings/desires, or a walking zombie covered in cuts displaying their own masochistic attitudes.
Don't know much about many more, did Marka Ragnos have the power to do what his Sceptor did?
Most likely yes. Either that or the scepter, like Sadow's amulet, amplified and focused a force users darkside abilities.
Originally posted by zephiel7
I never disagreed with you here. Sidious does not possess the sheer defensive capabilities of Sion, nor the immense draining abilities of Nihilus...But the important thing is neither of these skills are [B]learnable . I am sure most Sith Lords rather not become a crazy demon ghost- evil being that lost all semblance of human cravings/desires, or a walking zombie covered in cuts displaying their own masochistic attitudes.Most likely yes. Either that or the scepter, like Sadow's amulet, amplified and focused a force users darkside abilities. [/B]
Considering the fact that the incredible force drain exhibited by Nihilus originated from the ancient sith and learned on Malachor V, it is more than likely that Ragnos knew this technique.. And Sidious DID possess the immense draining ability of Nihilus. Remember what he did to Byss as a spirit?
Sadly palpatines force drain isnt as powerful nihilus force drain neither can palpatine use it against nihilus in a fight,
why? palpatines force drain is not an instant kill attack.He drained the inhabitants of byss over a long period of time.
And against nihilus, how would sidious loop out of the force?
1.The fallanasi were hiding from him
2. how could he have learnt the looping technique if he did not meet the fallanasi