Military Draft · General Discussion Forum

RZA Shaolin Monk

Military Draft

So, I met this guy at the gym today who kept going on and on about how the draft is real and it's definitely coming and soon. I know there's been plenty of talk about this before but it does seem like the US military now more than ever is becoming increasingly thin.

So my obvious question is do you think a mandatory military draft is imminent? Why or why not?

Also, if there was a draft and you were against going, what would you do?

Before you answer the second question please keep in mind the following facts...

The age has been recently increased from 36 to 42. So now anyone from 18 to 42 can be called, tho it is most likely to come from the pool of 18 to 26 as in Vietnam.

Here were the results of the lottery in 1969. Interesting statistic at the bottom.

http://www.landscaper.net/draft.htm

or you can also read it at the official site

http://www.sss.gov/lotter1.htm

And for those who were thinking about fleeing to Canada this time around, a certain little agreement signed by Canada and the U.S. called the 'Smart Border Declaration' could be used to keep you from crossing the border.

Here's more info. on the agreement...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020909.html

Noticed I said it could be used, not saying that's what it's specifically for.

Mišt Senior Member

Re: Military Draft

Originally posted by RZA

Also, if there was a draft and you were against going, what would you do?

Not go? **** them, I didnt start any wars, I dont have to fight in any wars.

Amy Lynn Lee Junior Member

I don't agree with conscription. If you don't want to go to war, you shouldn't have to, because, like Mist said-why go if you didn't start them?

Fishy Senior Member

If the draft would be used here I just wouldn't show up. I'd rather go to jail then fight to invade another country that did no wrong. If this country were attacked however (really attacked) i'd join the military on my own.

ThePittman "Pitt Happens"

Right or wrong I would serve my country, after all WE elected the officials that got us into the war.

Bardock42 Junior Member

Originally posted by ThePittman
Right or wrong I would serve my country, after all WE elected the officials that got us into the war.

So people that didn't elect them don't have to serve?

Anyways, that is bullshit either way, people do not live for their governments, on the contrary, governments exist for the sole purpose to make the lives better and fairer for all their citizens. To force people to go to war (actually to force people to do anything except if it is to protect others from harm) is unjust. Governments tend to forget nowadays that they do not exist for themselves...it's the people they exist for...not to enslave it's citizens (or even people from other countries), but to serve everyone.

ThePittman "Pitt Happens"

Originally posted by Bardock42
So people that didn't elect them don't have to serve?
Anyways, that is bullshit either way, people do not live for their governments, on the contrary, governments exist for the sole purpose to make the lives better and fairer for all their citizens. To force people to go to war (actually to force people to do anything except if it is to protect others from harm) is unjust. Governments tend to forget nowadays that they do not exist for themselves...it's the people they exist for...not to enslave it's citizens (or even people from other countries), but to serve everyone.

That is not what I’m saying, as WE I mean all people. Even if you don’t vote you are still responsible for this government because you didn’t vote and it is the responsible of the people to change the leaders if the don’t agree with them.

How is it unjust for the US government to protect it’s allies, what would be the purpose of being an allies to the US if you know they won’t protect you.

KharmaDog Dyslexic Agnostic

Originally posted by ThePittman
Right or wrong I would serve my country, after all WE elected the officials that got us into the war.

Wow!

There is so much wrong with this statement!

First off, you must learn the difference between "serving your country" and "serving the personal interests of individuals or groups".

Secondly, your generalization of who voted in who is ridiculous. Does that mean that only the people who voted those officials in must serve? Because I can guarantee that everyone that would be sent off to war did not vote for the elected officials sending them.

Finally, blind obedience in for the ignorant. You state ,"Right or wrong I would serve my country". Right or wrong? You don't differ between the two? To go to fight for your country and fight in a war that is, by all accounts, unjust or wrong and not know that it is such is sad. To willingly fight in an unjust war, knowing that it is wrong, that just makes you a dumb prick.

Mišt Senior Member

Can they draft women nowadays? 😑

Bardock42 Junior Member

Originally posted by ThePittman
That is not what I’m saying, as WE I mean all people. Even if you don’t vote you are still responsible for this government because you didn’t vote and it is the responsible of the people to change the leaders if the don’t agree with them.
How is it unjust for the US government to protect it’s allies, what would be the purpose of being an allies to the US if you know they won’t protect you.

I was talking about people that voted against the current government...they should just be allowed to say "No, I did my part, I won't go to war for them".

It is unjust to force someone to go to war to kill people ...that is my opinion. Well, why be allies with them then...your citizens are supposed to fight over at some place and kill people that are no threat to them at all? And I mean I can understand it if they do it on their own free will..but if they are forced it is just wrong...it just surpasses the powers a government should have. It's authoritarian and totally unfree.

ThePittman "Pitt Happens"

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Wow!
There is so much wrong with this statement!

There is noting wrong with my statement, I have served in the Navy as has my father before me. Right or wrong referrers to my feeling about the war not that the War is “right or wrong”, in order for us to go to war it must be voted on by the officials that we elected to office (either by voting or not voting).

Originally posted by KharmaDog
First off, you must learn the difference between "serving your country" and "serving the personal interests of individuals or groups".

I do know the difference and if Congress has voted to go to war that is not “serving the personal interests of individuals or groups”

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Secondly, your generalization of who voted in who is ridiculous. Does that mean that only the people who voted those officials in must serve? Because I can guarantee that everyone that would be sent off to war did not vote for the elected officials sending them. ".

Read my above post, WE is all the people, voted or not voted they still create the government.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
[B Finally, blind obedience in for the ignorant. You state ,"Right or wrong I would serve my country". Right or wrong? You don't differ between the two? To go to fight for your country and fight in a war that is, by all accounts, unjust or wrong and not know that it is such is sad. To willingly fight in an unjust war, knowing that it is wrong, that just makes you a dumb prick. [/B]

[sarcasm] Thank you for reverting to name calling, I feel so honored [/sarcasm] I do know the difference between right and wrong you have missed my point. You are required to by the US to do many things like Jury duty and if called upon to serve and protect your country and allies.

RedAlertv2 Senior Member

Ironic how even with pouring billions and billions into advanced military technology, we are falling short on manpower.

ThePittman "Pitt Happens"

Originally posted by Bardock42
I was talking about people that voted against the current government...they should just be allowed to say "No, I did my part, I won't go to war for them".
It is unjust to force someone to go to war to kill people ...that is my opinion. Well, why be allies with them then...your citizens are supposed to fight over at some place and kill people that are no threat to them at all? And I mean I can understand it if they do it on their own free will..but if they are forced it is just wrong...it just surpasses the powers a government should have. It's authoritarian and totally unfree.

Yes if you voted against the current president but you still voted for Congressmen, The House, local offices and so forth, all this makes up the government and I seriously doubt that everyone that you voted for didn’t get elected. I understand that you feel it wrong but it is also a requirement for being a citizen of the US, many other countries do not even give you the choice and you do have the choice of leaving the country if you choose to if you feel strongly enough about it.

We as a country of power also has a right to defend it allies, this would be the same as someone attacking your neighbors across the street, you don’t know them but they are apart of your community. The same logic could be applied to foreign aid, food and resources, why should we give this to other countries when we still have problems here?

ThePittman "Pitt Happens"

Originally posted by RedAlertv2
Ironic how even with pouring billions and billions into advanced military technology, we are falling short on manpower.

That has always been an issue for the US military; we have to makeup on technology to make up for a smaller standing army.

Bardock42 Junior Member

Originally posted by ThePittman
Yes if you voted against the current president but you still voted for Congressmen, The House, local offices and so forth, all this makes up the government and I seriously doubt that everyone that you voted for didn’t get elected. I understand that you feel it wrong but it is also a requirement for being a citizen of the US, many other countries do not even give you the choice and you do have the choice of leaving the country if you choose to if you feel strongly enough about it.
We as a country of power also has a right to defend it allies, this would be the same as someone attacking your neighbors across the street, you don’t know them but they are apart of your community. The same logic could be applied to foreign aid, food and resources, why should we give this to other countries when we still have problems here?

Look, that's bullshit. No one..absolutely no one, not a majority, not a government has the right to force you to do risk your life and fight and kill. No one. Maybe you don't quite get it, but you are America...not your government., Your government is there to serve you..not to force you to serve it.

As for the voting, it is very much possible that no candidate you voted for ever got elected and even if they did get elected their vote might have been overturned by others. But if you happen to live in a free country (and the US claims to be one) that is not a problem, because you have the right to not risk your life, you have the right to say no. If you can't do that, you live in an Authoritarian country. Simple as that.

Soleran Fast As Time

You can say no and then leave the country, freedom of choice.

Bardock42 Junior Member

Originally posted by Soleran
You can say no and then leave the country, freedom of choice.

You should be able to say no and stay in the country. If it is a free country that is.

ThePittman "Pitt Happens"

Originally posted by Bardock42
Look, that's bullshit. No one..absolutely no one, not a majority, not a government has the right to force you to do risk your life and fight and kill. No one. Maybe you don't quite get it, but you are America...not your government., Your government is there to serve you..not to force you to serve it.
As for the voting, it is very much possible that no candidate you voted for ever got elected and even if they did get elected their vote might have been overturned by others. But if you happen to live in a free country (and the US claims to be one) that is not a problem, because you have the right to not risk your life, you have the right to say no. If you can't do that, you live in an Authoritarian country. Simple as that.

What is the difference with the government saying that you have to pay taxes, obey its laws and what you can do to protect your family? The only really “free” society is one of anarchy, you have to live by the laws of the land and if you don’t then you also don’t have to stay. In the US we also have the right to change the laws so if there is enough people that feel the way you do then you can change it.

Bardock42 Junior Member

Originally posted by ThePittman
What is the difference with the government saying that you have to pay taxes, obey its laws and what you can do to protect your family? The only really “free” society is one of anarchy, you have to live by the laws of the land and if you don’t then you also don’t have to stay. In the US we also have the right to change the laws so if there is enough people that feel the way you do then you can change it.

Good news Pittman....Soleran,...Saddam and I decided to settle our disputes by letting you play a little game of Russian Roulette....why you? Well, why not, you are citizens, do that for you country...don't be selfish...."I want to live, I want to live"...BULLSHIT...you are Americans and as such you have to risk your lives (the only ones you have) to attack other countries so we can get oil...we like oil.

Countries should not be able to decide for you if you are going to risk your live for some more or less important issue. That is a decision everyone is allowed to make for themselves and the majority can **** itself up the butt....if 50% want to fight a war, they are the ones that are going to fight it. It is a personal decision that should have nothing, nothing to do with being a citizen...

Ushgarak Paladin

A draft is an appropriate tool in dire enough circumstances, but Iraq does not qualify for that any more than Vietnam should have done. It has to be World War desperate to qualify, really.