Is Superman above the top tier?

Originally posted by UniOmni
Imo, he's not overpowered.

But he is overstroked. As a character.

He's(imo) not as powerful as Surfer, Thor, Strange,GL, and many more.

But he's overused by many writers at times. He's not a swiss army knife type character.

His powerset is straightforward, and isn't vague at all, except for his bioaura.

He's not as powerful as some, but is more powerful than many, in a strange way.

Thor, imo, is more powerful.

But both fighting at their best, he'd lose the majority. Why??

Cuz Supermans brute/speed/durability combo is tough to beat.

Take away his speed, and he loses alot of the matches around here.

People wanna debate.

Its hard to debate, when the first word out someones mouth is speedblitz.

This has been used against GL, Magneto,Surfer,Thor and countless others.

I like the character, but hate debating him.

And you gotta realize, his speed is a deterrent.

Originally posted by Juntai
But then you see him do things like rub his hands together to seal a hole breaking down the space/time continuum, or hold a black hole together, or heal the o-zone with heat vision and you can't help but think he's a swiss army character as well as an urivaled brick.

Originally posted by Milkie
What Else 🙄

Sonic attack, Torquasm-Vo, bio-energy absorbtion, invisibility, intangibility, and he's a MUCH better fighter than Billy when he actually uses his skill.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Most characters are overstroked within their own titles.

When Superman is written horribly, toned down to make the villain of the week shine, as well as any newbie hero that's around, we get to see people saying "Superman is just weak and pathetic. X/Y can beat Superman. Superman is nothing" and so on.

When finally, the bad portrayals end and Superman is written as he is supposed to be, they suddenly switch tracks to "Oh no!! He's too powerful!".

They have no problem when it comes to anyone else being ultra powerful/smart. When it is Superman, who is SUPPOSED to be at the top of the foodchain, it's somehow a disaster.

Look at Thanos in marvel. Powerful enough to go toe to toe with mighty Odin himself. Arguably the most intelligent being in the Marvel universe. Experience that is unparalleled. Yet, he does not win every fight because there is always a way to defeat someone, regardless of how powerful and mighty they are.

I don't see any problem here. The only problem I see is how he gets weakened every now and then to make every random villain/hero on the block shine, and finally that seems to be ending.

If anything, the problems are actually being solved now. Superman is no longer a joke, and finally he's getting what he deserves, and things are going to be the way they are supposed to be.

I actually agree with your post.

But i don't see the need, for writers to show Superman as being the most powerful by making other characters look really bad.

Superman breaks through Hals constructs like tissue paper, and one shots hal.........

Hal lets loose on Superman, and then Superman isn't fazed.

Shyt like that will always piss off the fans of Hal, and alienate them from Superman.

Why? Cuz Hal and Superman are peers in power.

Superman disregarding Hals best, doesn't jibe with recent canon.

OWAW was good in concept, but horrible in execution.

Superman can be shown as the most powerful physical hero.

But must he stand head and shoulders above the rest of the DCU hero populace?

Originally posted by batdude123
Sonic attack, Torquasm-Vo, bio-energy absorbtion, invisibility, intangibility, and he's a MUCH better fighter than Billy when he actually uses his skill.

Originally posted by Validus
You wouldn't happen to be arguing that versatility equals power now would you?

He has enough to put down Billy for the majority, let's just put it that way.

Originally posted by Juntai
But then you see him do things like rub his hands together to seal a hole breaking down the space/time continuum, or hold a black hole together, or heal the o-zone with heat vision and you can't help but think he's a swiss army character as well as an urivaled brick.

I'd sooner buy GL or Surfer sealing holes in reality, or the spacetime continum, than Superman for the simple reason that their powerset is open enough to do so without asking any questions about it.

Magic>>> Fists.

His powerset isn't the kind that can do anything.

Hence the need for GL/Surfer types.

Lets be real here.

The most mysterious thing about Superman is his aura.

Originally posted by UniOmni
I actually agree with your post.

But i don't see the need, for writers to show Superman as being the most powerful by making other characters look really bad.

Superman breaks through Hals constructs like tissue paper, and one shots hal.........

Hal lets loose on Superman, and then Superman isn't fazed.

Shyt like that will always piss off the fans of Hal, and alienate them from Superman.

Why? Cuz Hal and Superman are peers in power.

Superman disregarding Hals best, doesn't jibe with recent canon.

OWAW was good in concept, but horrible in execution.

Superman can be shown as the most powerful physical hero.

But must he stand head and shoulders above the rest of the DCU hero populace?

Superman - Our Worlds at War
Hal Jordan - Emerald Twilight
Kyle Rayner - Circle of Fire
The Flash - Rogue War
Thor - Blood & Thunder
Silver Surfer - Uni-lord Saga
Captain Marvel - Day of Vengeance
Wonder Woman - OMAC

The main difference I can tell from this list is that those heroes have those showings in their own book while Superman does it in crossovers. Still, in all those situations, they were the go to person. Nobody else could have done what they did in those situations.

Originally posted by batdude123
He has enough to put down Billy for the majority, let's just put it that way.

Originally posted by batdude123
Sonic attack, Torquasm-Vo, bio-energy Absorption, invisibility, intangibility, and he's a MUCH better fighter than Billy when he actually uses his skill.

You think Billy can't do those things either minus Torquasm-Vo and Bio-Energy Absorption?

Higher than some and lower than others.

And Avalon. You cant really go toe to toe when your outclassed.

see the thing is superman can be toned down greatly and become a great character without any bashing the main problem is that he's portayed as being flawless and in this day and age people dont like a flawless hero he's been portrayed that way for soo long that it's hard to try to make him look like an average hero that's what you get fro trumping him up for soo long if for example the would tone him down a bit to where he is efected by large portions of earth borne items like haveing it so that a big enough nuke could kill him or if exposed t enough chemicals or a virus of some sort he could become infected/contaminated like the rest of the heroes on earth then they could get rid of his built in weakenesses like kryptonite

Originally posted by Milkie
You think Billy can't do those things either minus Torquasm-Vo and Bio-Energy Absorption?

He hasn't ever shown those abilities in comics so it's wrong to speculate that he can.

Superman set the standard to top-tier characters.

Originally posted by UniOmni
I'd sooner buy GL or Surfer sealing holes in reality, or the spacetime continum, than Superman for the simple reason that their powerset is open enough to do so without asking any questions about it.

Magic>>> Fists.

His powerset isn't the kind that can do anything.

Hence the need for GL/Surfer types.

Lets be real here.

The most mysterious thing about Superman is his aura.

Originally posted by Juntai
But... he did do that.

Originally posted by batdude123
He hasn't ever shown those abilities in comics so it's wrong to speculate that he can.

WOW

HE DOES HAVE THE ABILITIES TO DO THAT

TELL ME BATDUDE

WHAT IS REQUIRED TO PULL THAT OFF? 😎

Originally posted by Milkie
WOW

HE DOES HAVE THE ABILITIES TO DO THAT

TELL ME BATDUDE

WHAT IS REQUIRED TO PULL THAT OFF? 😎

He may have the ability to pull off intangibility or invisibility with his speed, but he certainly doesn't have the skill. It took Superman awhile to learn those tricks. So, as it stands, Marvel CANNOT do that. He's never demonstrated those abilities, so it's just flawed logic to say that he CAN do those.

Originally posted by lando005
which is something outside his abilites that's like saying wolverine can slash holes into another dimention

Originally posted by batdude123
He may have the ability to pull off intangibility or invisibility with his speed, but he certainly doesn't have the skill. It took Superman awhile to learn those tricks. So, as it stands, Marvel CANNOT do that. He's never demonstrated those abilities, so it's just flawed logic to say that he CAN do those.

Wisdom of Solomon is not there for nothing 🙄

And there have been plenty of times where characters jump out of the blue and said they knew this and knew that.

What makes you think he has never tried it in the past in an off panel battle?