Revan versus Yoda and Mace Windu

Originally posted by Escape81
I haven't cited that tNEC quote in a while, ever since Wallace responded to Lightsnake's emails.

I use Dark Empire quotes and quotes from other sourcebooks.

What I said, though, is this. When that quote was made, Illustrious savagely argued that the quote was referring to Sidious's political power.

The quote itself is:

"Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."

Because the context of the situation was a fight, I don't see how it could be a reference to political power. But such is Illustrious's thinking on regards to characters that he doesn't like.

What I was trying to get at is the line in ROTS Novel that "Yoda is the strongest" cannot be interpreted as simply strength in the substansive sense.

Wallace stated that these quotes could not be taken 100% seriously, since as we have seen, the reference to Sidious' "power" by that quote was purely political (Wallace himself even cleared that up).

Just so, the "strength" that they refer to Yoda could be strength of convictions (ie., zealousness). Until we know EXACTLY what the quote refers to we cant use it.

Originally posted by zephiel7
What I was trying to get at is the line in ROTS Novel that "Yoda is the strongest" cannot be interpreted as simply strength in the substansive sense.

Wallace stated that these quotes could not be taken 100% seriously, since as we have seen, the reference to Sidious' "power" by that quote was purely political (Wallace himself even cleared that up).

Just so, the "strength" that they refer to Yoda could be strength of convictions (ie., zealousness).

Wallace said "that line was a reference to political power"?

Where? 'Cause I don't remember it.

Its ok, he only sent them cause I thought it was stupid to bother the man with silly questions like "What did KJA mean when he wrote this...How is Ragnos's power quantified....etc"

Originally posted by Escape81
Wallace said "that line was a reference to political power"?

Where? 'Cause I don't remember it.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=400934&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=3

Here it is.

From Wallace himself:
a) As it turns out, Palpatine was only the "most powerful" when it came to political maneuvering, not ghost-ass-kicking

We can't use naked quotes to substantiate an argument...

That wouldn't make much sense considering the quote was made in the fight scene making it relevant to fighting abilities, and everything points to Sidious being the strongest ever.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That wouldn't make much sense considering the quote was made in the fight scene making it relevant to fighting abilities

The quote which states that Palpatine was the strongest Sith Lord was also with respect to a fighting scene.

"Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."

Wallace states that it was a reference to political power.

With that said, as per Wallace, I still can't stand by using a single quote to substantiate Yoda as the best Jedi until PT. These quotes are shown to be interpretive despite context.

We are better off using logical deductions through feats and putting the feats in context to determine who is stronger

Besides, its a lot funner that way...

Originally posted by zephiel7
The quote which states that Palpatine was the strongest Sith Lord was also with respect to a fighting scene.

"Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."

Wallace states that it was a reference to political power.

With that said, as per Wallace, I still can't stand by using a single quote to substantiate Yoda as the best Jedi until PT. These quotes are shown to be interpretive despite context.

We are better off using logical deductions through feats and putting the feats in context to determine who is stronger

Besides, its a lot funner that way...

You need to show me that link again. I don't understand how that could, at ALL, refer to political power in a fight. And if it DID refer to political power, then it would have never been mentioned in a fight. Unless there's definitive proof of that, I call bullshit. Not to mention I have seen the emails of lightsnake myself, from Dan Wallace, calling Sidious the most powerful.
Yoda being the best is also pretty conclusive and all the evidence points to that, and Revan being #2.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You need to show me that link again. I don't understand how that could, at ALL, refer to political power in a fight. And if it DID refer to political power, then it would have never been mentioned in a fight.

New Essential Chronology author, Wallace states this. He even submits that the claim CAN be subject to dispute.
a) As it turns out, Palpatine was only the "most powerful" when it came to political maneuvering, not ghost-ass-kicking

Just to prove that I am no liar:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=400934&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=3

Yoda being the best is also pretty conclusive and all the evidence points to that, and Revan being #2.

According to Wallace, naked quotes like these are not surefire indicators of character strength. I still hold by this. They can be interpretive, despite context. Yoda's rank as #1 Jedi is disputable.

Also, since power charts have not been published, you cannot make a claim by virtue of a single quote.

Dude, look at lightsnake's emails. His questions and answers just confirm what the NEC and the Novelizations state.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Dude, look at lightsnake's emails. His questions and answers just confirm what the NEC and the Novelizations state.

Could you show them to me.

Wallace commented there is "wiggle room" and "power charts" have not been published. He is effectively stating that there is subjectivity towards interpreting a quote.

Dan published the NEC and is in charge of chronology. We can go by his advice.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Could you show them to me.

Wallace commented there is "wiggle room" and "power charts" have not been published. He is effectively stating that there is subjectivity towards interpreting a quote.

Dan published the NEC and is in charge of chronology. We can go by his advice.

You don't need a power chart to establish the #1 seed in anything zephiel. His quote in the book ONLY makes 100% sense if it refers to power. You need to ask lightsnake for the emails

His quote in the book ONLY makes 100% sense if it refers to power.

Well argue that with Wallace. He agrees their is a certain amount of subjectivity when interpreting Star Wars quotes.

Anyways, I'm out of this topic. The point has been debated to death, and I still go by Wallace's advice and what I believe would make the most sense.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Well argue that with Wallace. He agrees their is a certain amount of subjectivity when interpreting Star Wars quotes.

Anyways, I'm out of this topic. The point has been debated to death, and I still go by Wallace's advice and what I believe would make the most sense.

And again, Wallace confirmed what he said in the NEC.. That Sidious is the most powerful sith lord.

Halt! Stop the press.

Zephiel, that particular line was not in reference to political power.

Hence Dan said: "as it turns out...", meaning the original context of that quote was not intended for political purposes, but for personal power.

Originally posted by Escape81
Halt! Stop the press.

Zephiel, that particular line was [B]not in reference to political power.

Hence Dan said: "as it turns out...", meaning the original context of that quote was not intended for political purposes, but for personal power. [/B]

He states that "there's plenty of wiggle-room in my statement where you can go one way or another."

I think that is permission on his part to allow for interpretation on these quotes...

Hold up, who's saying that that was even Dan Wallace, I mean I find it really hard to believe that such a big authority on SW would waste his time on some small time SW forum.

Originally posted by King Adas
Hold up, who's saying that that was even Dan Wallace, I mean I find it really hard to believe that such a big authority on SW would waste his time on some small time SW forum.

Save your skepticism. I doubt anyone would be that desperate to prove a point for such insignificant debates...The purpose of these forums is in essence to brag about how many SW comics you read...I cannot fathom how anyone would take it SO seriously...

i found this on kmc somewhere

Yup, that's lightsnake's email.

That was before Dan came in here and said it was all interpretive. I remember that back in the day when LS came back and the AnteDiluvians were told to leave by Ush. 🙁